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04-12-2012, 11:51 AM | #51 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dayton Ohio
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I highly doubt Mattel would get its hands on the Marvel License. Theres Several key facts that say this
1 : Marvel has a good buisness relationship with Hasbro. Unlike their relationship with Toybiz which used stock art for their packages, Marvel actually works with Hasbro, providing artist tallent and Marvel tells them who gets priority figures made. Example : Son of Hulk being made before his comic debut. Not to mention Joe Quesadas SDCC Figure art 2 : Disney Has been known to not shop all their properties in the same place. Last year, we had Tron and POTC toys and neither of those were in Mattel, Showing they are not keen in marketing boy toys with Mattel. 3 : Disney and Hasbro are already in Buisness with each other. Hasbro and Disney have a store in Disneyworld called Once Upon a Toy. This is run by Hasbro. Not to mention disney and hasbro toys. In the end, it comes down to who has the biggest money and audience. Hasbro or Mattel. Mattel cant seem to get a good foothold in retail, as their products seem to be cancelling fast, except for Hotwheels and Barbie. Hasbro is the undisputed Kings of Boys products, and one of the big reasons why Disney bought marvel is so that they had a outlet into the boy market. Hasbro has a network, and its made a deal to air Superhero Squad, which it Coowns with Marvel. Mattel has a collectors program, but so does Marvel through Diamond Select. One man being laid off does not mean its the end of the line, as many people with clout have gone in and out of Toybiz and Hasbro since the inception of Marvel Legends. His laying off just means he was becoming too expensive for the company.
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04-12-2012, 12:21 PM | #52 |
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Ok, assuming the "What if" scenerio, let me say this:
While I would love to see officially-released product for Amalgam, I doubt it will ever happen. Both Marvel and DC would have to agree to it, since they co-own the rights to everything published under the Amalgam imprint. And I just don't see that happening any time soon. Also, whether Mattel hires Vonner or not, there's no guarantee he'll work on DC or Marvel stuff (again, within the "What If" world). He could be assigned to a completely different property (maybe a retail MOTU reboot) or another licensee. And should he actually get to work on Marvel/DC toys, there's no guarantee that he will be able to change the mindset of an entire company. He would either be a low man on the totem pole or a hired gun until whatever project he lands succeeds. And that's even assuming he wants to work for Mattel.
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04-12-2012, 12:31 PM | #53 |
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Vonner's facebook page was changed to show that he now works for Spencer's. His Twitter feed suggests he is shopping for licenses for them at the moment.
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04-12-2012, 02:24 PM | #54 |
Illyria's New Qwa'ha Xahn
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Quote:
I think Hasbro is too big for Disney to be able to swoop in and take over. Ten years ago, woulda been a different story. But now Hasbro has become more than just a toy company, and is now becoming a Media empire. It has several monster franchises that it owns, and a few others that it has strong alligiences with. And it's the largest toy company in the world, with several global blockbuster movies, and now even it's own TV channel.
Hasbro's nowhere near as big as Disney, but if Disney came knocking now, I think Hasbro could fend them off (Unlike Pixar, or Marvel). Or at least put up enough fight to make it not Disney's worth while. However, something no one's really considered... Given how Disney either does everything themselves, or aquires companies to do it for them, I'm surprised they haven't started their own toy company, years ago. But, let's not forget that Marvel aquired Toybiz years ago, and turned it into Marvel Toys. No one's considered that Disney now owns Marvel Toys. It's far more likely that Disney will return the marvel lisence to Marvel Toys, than it is that they'll give it to Mattel. But, if Hasbro's handling of the Marvel franchise is still successful by '17, Disney won't do anything. As for Disney buying hasbro. Disney does have deep pockets, that's why I'm concerned, but Hasbro has also shored up their stocks better now to prevent something like that from happening. I do agree though, Hasbro is well on their way to becoming a masssive media empire that could rival disney, hence my concern that Disney would want to acquire them before that happens. Again though that's not likely with how Hasbro has managed to put majority share of the stocks back in its favor to prevent that. |
04-12-2012, 03:14 PM | #55 |
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Quote:
Well, and Marvel with toybiz had an interesting relationship. Toybiz bailed them out when marvel hit financial trouble, and then the reverse happened with Marvel now owning them. Even so, they've scaled back operations so much it's kind of moot. and not likely.
As for Disney buying hasbro. Disney does have deep pockets, that's why I'm concerned, but Hasbro has also shored up their stocks better now to prevent something like that from happening. I do agree though, Hasbro is well on their way to becoming a masssive media empire that could rival disney, hence my concern that Disney would want to acquire them before that happens. Again though that's not likely with how Hasbro has managed to put majority share of the stocks back in its favor to prevent that. Disney on the other hand expands. Their theme parks are doing amazing. Every time a Pixar movie comes out it is more money for them. ABC is doing pretty well. With a huge blockbuster this summer, not to mention some residuals from Spider-Man as well, plus "The Brave" coming out as well, I don't see Hasbro giving any competition. More like a 4 year old running along side an Olympic marathoner. |
04-12-2012, 03:43 PM | #56 |
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people seem to forget that when Hasbro purchased the Marvel License, it also had to pretty much Buy Toybiz and nearlly all of its Assets. There were some leftovers under Marvel which became Marvel Toys, and has since evaporated. Those Assets include Molds
If Disney wanted to return to Inhouse Marvel Toys, There would no longer be those assets. to get those assets disney would have to pay out the butt to Hasbro or start over completely from Scratch, which would cost even more out of the Butt. Mattel is Hemorageing money due to frequent line cancellations and poor quality reports and would just be giving us mediocre low joint figures and constant remolds.
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04-12-2012, 04:00 PM | #57 |
om nom nom!
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here's hoping that gi joe movie is good and at least the toy line looks better than the offerings from rise of cobra. overall, i feel hasbro is still pretty strong and if it were to ever end, it'd be because action figures as a whole are dead. mattel's subs, price point, and erratic distribution make me not want to invest in any of their toys.
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04-12-2012, 05:42 PM | #58 |
Illyria's New Qwa'ha Xahn
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Quote:
Hasbro is not rivaling anyone right now - or any time soon. The Hub is struggling mightily. Hasbro remains number two in toy sales. GI Joe is on the ropes. TFs is a long time from another movie - and the toys didn't seem to do so well this time around. And with prices rising and the recession continuing, I don't see a huge surge for Hasbro anytime soon. In fact, most folks are being turned off by the price increase rather than buying more.
Disney on the other hand expands. Their theme parks are doing amazing. Every time a Pixar movie comes out it is more money for them. ABC is doing pretty well. With a huge blockbuster this summer, not to mention some residuals from Spider-Man as well, plus "The Brave" coming out as well, I don't see Hasbro giving any competition. More like a 4 year old running along side an Olympic marathoner. For the record, even Disney is hurting in these times. Their extra spending right now in low return years is to help jump start the economy. That's why they're expanding the parks and pushing more shows. Though really, some of the marvel side is getting hit hard. Avengers EMH budget seems to have been cut causing some animation cost cutting measures, and Ultimate spidey is taking the lion's share of the alloted marvel animation budget. ABC is also a prime time network so they get a bigger budget to work with too, so you can't really compare it to the hub either. Even Disney XD and normal Disney are in the channel tiear below the Hub, so they can't be used to compare. Ditto to CN. The channel tiers to compare it to are nicktoons, teen nick, and boomerang. |
04-12-2012, 07:09 PM | #59 |
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Quote:
Hasbro is not rivaling anyone right now - or any time soon. The Hub is struggling mightily. Hasbro remains number two in toy sales. GI Joe is on the ropes. TFs is a long time from another movie - and the toys didn't seem to do so well this time around. And with prices rising and the recession continuing, I don't see a huge surge for Hasbro anytime soon. In fact, most folks are being turned off by the price increase rather than buying more.
Disney on the other hand expands. Their theme parks are doing amazing. Every time a Pixar movie comes out it is more money for them. ABC is doing pretty well. With a huge blockbuster this summer, not to mention some residuals from Spider-Man as well, plus "The Brave" coming out as well, I don't see Hasbro giving any competition. More like a 4 year old running along side an Olympic marathoner. Hasbro is not in trouble. G.I joe one made a mere $300 Million. Why would you expect number two to perform less well? Yes trandsformers 4 is a couple of years off. I guess they'll have to rest on their $2.5 billion take so far. But lets not forget about Battleship. (Everytime I hear someone say that looks good I have to look around for Rod Serling) The reccession comments are funny. The $9.00 for toys will send people away in droves but the vacation resort community will do better in a recession? Hasbro and Disney are both doing fine. Comparing the two is fruitless. As for the main theme of the thread, Mattel isn't going to take on the Marvel lic. They don't want to do anything with DC anymore never mind Marvel. |
04-13-2012, 04:22 AM | #60 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
you're right. Hasbro is not now nor will it be in the near future a threat to Disney. But the same was true of Apple when Microsoft had to bail them out in the late 90's.
Hasbro is not in trouble. G.I joe one made a mere $300 Million. Why would you expect number two to perform less well? Yes trandsformers 4 is a couple of years off. I guess they'll have to rest on their $2.5 billion take so far. But lets not forget about Battleship. (Everytime I hear someone say that looks good I have to look around for Rod Serling) The reccession comments are funny. The $9.00 for toys will send people away in droves but the vacation resort community will do better in a recession? Hasbro and Disney are both doing fine. Comparing the two is fruitless. As for the main theme of the thread, Mattel isn't going to take on the Marvel lic. They don't want to do anything with DC anymore never mind Marvel. About the movies and tv show, Hasbro said themselves that the Hub is struggling. About the movies, you have to remember that the money is split between Paramount, Dreamworks, and Hasbro - and then the risiduals that the actors and director and producers get on the back end. And I have not seen worldwide numbers like what you are suggesting - more like half (but that doesn't count toys, books, etc). But one movie doesn't make a studio - at least, not for long. And that series appears to be drying up for a while, with the profits going into two blockbusters that look iffy in a summer full of big named comic book characters (Joe and Battleship vs Batman, Spider-man, Avengers, MIB3, etc). To your comment about vacation resort vs $9 toys in a recession, it makes complete sense. People love Disney and put aside money that they don't have to go there each year. I've met people who were staying there a month (from Europe). Trust me, the parks are still full. Toys for $10 are easier to pass on for collectors and kids alike. A vacation can be timeless; a toy is easily forgotten. It's not a hard step of logic to take. To be clear, Hasbro is not in trouble. But it is making costly decisions that time will tell if they work out for them (television, rising toy prices with less articulation, and more movies this summer that are pretty risky blockbusters). How they work out will determine if the company is growing or is hurting. Right now, they are doing little of either. |
04-13-2012, 04:43 AM | #61 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 310
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Quote:
Hasbro's hub venture takes time to take hold, but yes they are growing. The film ventures are giving them deeper pockets, and the channel gives them an outlet for toon ventures. The Hub isn't struggling as much as you'd think though. It's doing well for what it is, just what it is is more in line with nicktoons not in line CN or normal nickelodeon. You have to compare the ratings and financial situations on that aspect. In that aspect it's doing great and far better than discovery kids did. The problem is in the fact discovery was expecting CN like returns when it's not in that kind of channel tier. All that's going to end up happening is Discovery is going to hand more off to Hasbro to the point hasbro owns it all.
For the record, even Disney is hurting in these times. Their extra spending right now in low return years is to help jump start the economy. That's why they're expanding the parks and pushing more shows. Though really, some of the marvel side is getting hit hard. Avengers EMH budget seems to have been cut causing some animation cost cutting measures, and Ultimate spidey is taking the lion's share of the alloted marvel animation budget. ABC is also a prime time network so they get a bigger budget to work with too, so you can't really compare it to the hub either. Even Disney XD and normal Disney are in the channel tiear below the Hub, so they can't be used to compare. Ditto to CN. The channel tiers to compare it to are nicktoons, teen nick, and boomerang. Disney is in a recession alongside most companies (obviously not Apple) but its decline is much less than a Hasbro because it is diffuse over so many different ventures. And they have huge coffers from years of incredible success that Hasbro does not anymore. They are expanding while their competition is holding still and waiting. Remember, you made the point that Hasbro was competing with Disney. I said that is a not an apt comparison. Hasbro is trying to become a multi-faceted company but right now its success is making toys. It has one movie franchise that is huge - and may be done (sure, they announced a fourth but not for a while). It has a nice cartoon (Prime) that most kids don't even know about! It has already put on hiatus GI Joe. Things are rocky for the Hub. Prices are going up, articulation going down for action figures. None of this sounds like Hasbro is competing with Disney - or even with CN. They are just trying to remain viable for the future. |
04-13-2012, 07:31 AM | #62 |
Dark Lord of the 'Ark
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At this stage in Hasbro's development, comparing them to Disney or even saying that they are equal competitors is ridiculous. First off, it's apples and oranges. As far as media conglomerates go, Hasbro isn't in the same league as Disney. Yet. Second off, Disney and Hasbro are business partners. They co-own Super Hero Squad. Hasbro holds the Marvel license. Hasbro does figures for other Disney movies. I see absolutely no reason to set them up as competitors.
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04-13-2012, 08:20 AM | #63 |
Join Date: May 2011
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Quote:
I think Hasbro is too big for Disney to be able to swoop in and take over. Ten years ago, woulda been a different story. But now Hasbro has become more than just a toy company, and is now becoming a Media empire. It has several monster franchises that it owns, and a few others that it has strong alligiences with. And it's the largest toy company in the world, with several global blockbuster movies, and now even it's own TV channel.
Hasbro's nowhere near as big as Disney, but if Disney came knocking now, I think Hasbro could fend them off (Unlike Pixar, or Marvel). Or at least put up enough fight to make it not Disney's worth while. However, something no one's really considered... Given how Disney either does everything themselves, or aquires companies to do it for them, I'm surprised they haven't started their own toy company, years ago. But, let's not forget that Marvel aquired Toybiz years ago, and turned it into Marvel Toys. No one's considered that Disney now owns Marvel Toys. It's far more likely that Disney will return the marvel lisence to Marvel Toys, than it is that they'll give it to Mattel. But, if Hasbro's handling of the Marvel franchise is still successful by '17, Disney won't do anything. Plus, all this speculation is BS. If Disney takes Marvel to Mattel, I'll be done and not have to worry about it anymore. I'll finally have an opportunity to finally "Grow up." |
04-13-2012, 11:11 AM | #64 |
Illyria's New Qwa'ha Xahn
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Quote:
In terms of tv, you made my point for me. You say Hasbro is close to competing with Hasbro, but then you say its not fair to compare ABC to the Hub. You say it isn't fair to compare it to even Disney XD! Guess what? that means they aren't comparable. That sort of undercuts your argument, huh? Discovery is handing more off because they are trying to lose that channel completely because it is not bringing in money. The Hub is not getting fresh programming like XD is - at least, not as popular shows. Most of it is based on nostalgia.
Disney is in a recession alongside most companies (obviously not Apple) but its decline is much less than a Hasbro because it is diffuse over so many different ventures. And they have huge coffers from years of incredible success that Hasbro does not anymore. They are expanding while their competition is holding still and waiting. Remember, you made the point that Hasbro was competing with Disney. I said that is a not an apt comparison. Hasbro is trying to become a multi-faceted company but right now its success is making toys. It has one movie franchise that is huge - and may be done (sure, they announced a fourth but not for a while). It has a nice cartoon (Prime) that most kids don't even know about! It has already put on hiatus GI Joe. Things are rocky for the Hub. Prices are going up, articulation going down for action figures. None of this sounds like Hasbro is competing with Disney - or even with CN. They are just trying to remain viable for the future. But comparing a prime time network(ABC) to a channel tier that the hub is on is quite stupid. You say the hub is strugging by hasbro's own word, and it wasn't hasbro that did that or said that it was discovery. You also have to look at history. CN for example didn't start where it is now. It was once on the same tier the hub is at now. Ditto to Disney XD, and Disney channel itself used to be a premium channel back when it first started. So in comparison hasbro is well on their way and getting stronger the longer the channel stays around. It took CN close to 5 years to even reach the penetration it did on the tier it was on. Hub is doing it faster in comparison and also doesn't have the same deep pockets Disney does to just buyout channels like they did to get where they are at. Hasbro is doing it through pure tv shows and marketing. They are making great entertainment that is spreading like wildfire on its own. Last edited by Snowflakian; 04-13-2012 at 11:18 AM.. |
04-13-2012, 12:29 PM | #65 |
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Quote:
I could certainly see Hasbro really wanting to get their hands on Barbi, Hotwheels, DC, and Cars, and wrasslin', though.
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04-13-2012, 12:37 PM | #66 |
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Quote:
Actually they have more than one major movie franchise, and they have several toons that are doing well. My little pony for example is getting more wide exposure than even prime or Disney shows. It takes time though for a media empire to grow. I said that Hasbro is on their way to rivaling disney, didn't say they were rivaling them yet. Transformers made them bank, but so does GI Joe, Battleship will do well, and they also have many other movies in the works, can profit better from DVD sales on series and movies. They Have award winning tv shows. Even their clue series did pretty well on their ratings tier. The list can go on. I understand that all you watch on them is Prime and Renegades, but that doesn't mean that's all they have that's new or doing well. Hub is doing pretty well as it is, and better than Discovery kids ever did.
But comparing a prime time network(ABC) to a channel tier that the hub is on is quite stupid. You say the hub is strugging by hasbro's own word, and it wasn't hasbro that did that or said that it was discovery. You also have to look at history. CN for example didn't start where it is now. It was once on the same tier the hub is at now. Ditto to Disney XD, and Disney channel itself used to be a premium channel back when it first started. So in comparison hasbro is well on their way and getting stronger the longer the channel stays around. It took CN close to 5 years to even reach the penetration it did on the tier it was on. Hub is doing it faster in comparison and also doesn't have the same deep pockets Disney does to just buyout channels like they did to get where they are at. Hasbro is doing it through pure tv shows and marketing. They are making great entertainment that is spreading like wildfire on its own. Personally, I don't see Disney buying a toy company at all. More likely to start their own. And I don't see that happening. An interesting point: Walt Disney started his career about the same time Hasbro was founded. Amazing how different the two corporations are today. |
04-13-2012, 05:07 PM | #67 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Really, does Disney go with a company that has an incredible track record or one that just tanked their third line of non-selling 3.75ish figs?
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04-13-2012, 05:25 PM | #68 |
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That's the bottom line right there.
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04-16-2012, 04:52 PM | #69 |
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Again, fellow Arkers, its not a question of why Hasbro should keep MU.
Its a hypothetical question WHAT IF Mattel possibly may get MU? If so, what would you like? Example of (hypothetical) answer: I would like Mattel to include Marvel's many Female Super Heroes in their wildly selling "Disney Princesses" in order to get more girls to keep comics alive, as they kept the popularity of manga / anime alive + kicking, for the past few decades. |
04-16-2012, 06:20 PM | #70 |
The Host of Darkness
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no no no no no no no no no no no no no no No!
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04-17-2012, 09:24 AM | #71 |
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Location: Dayton Ohio
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It would suck. Poor Articulation, poor paint, poor plastic, crazy expensive club exclusives that we would gouge each others eyes out to get, and they couldnt get away with obscure characters in retail like Hasbro does.
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07-19-2019, 11:36 PM | #72 |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,285
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My bad (zombie bumped this while trying to find a quote).
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