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09-14-2009, 11:56 AM | #1 |
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09-14-2009, 12:20 PM | #2 |
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Personally, I'm a big fan of in-scale vehicles. That is one of the main reasons I fell in love with G.I. Joe toys when I was a kid. Although rising prices make some vehicles almost too expensive I still like them. It gives you something to look forward to getting. Now that playsets are going the way of the dodo it seems like they are blending large scale vehicles and playsets into one item making it more attractive for potential buyers.
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09-14-2009, 12:24 PM | #3 |
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Amazing that we've seen what we have (Falcon, ATTE, Turbo Tank), but in the long run it seems that there are too many price-point concessions made (especially now that we KNOW retail price-point concessions can reach as deep as 50% before clearance.) That retail space is just too valuable in the eyes of retailers.
I submit that the end is near on extremely large-scale items, like the Falcon, but expect more reasonably sized, up-scaled items to continue. |
09-14-2009, 12:26 PM | #4 |
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1/1 scale vehicles are quite desirable for fans and collectors alike but the biggest problem is cost and demand. I think that the Big Millenium Falcon was a great venture by Hasbro but it too costly for them to always produce in 1/1 scale, and with a higher production cost then it means higher MSRP. Will fans accept higher prices? I think not. I believe that Hasbro should continue to produce 1/1 scale vehicles BUT keep it as an exclusive or minimum production run so that they do not loose a great amount of money and still keep the niche of vehicle fans happy. Also, how about limited release? Maybe only 3-4 1/1 scale vehicles a year?
We already has some close to 1/1 scale Star Wars vehicles such as the Millenium Falcon, X-Wing, Tie Fighter. All of which I plan to purchase sometime in the near future.
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09-14-2009, 01:23 PM | #5 |
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Hasbro doesn't like to make a mold that they'll only use once, and they've really painted themselves into a corner the BMF.
They SAID the old MF is discontinued because it's mold has broken and done-for; Han Solo, however, is still a very marketable character for kids. It wouldn't surprise me to see a mysterious return to the old MF mold in some updated packaging. As for the BMF, I can't begin to guess. |
09-14-2009, 01:28 PM | #6 |
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Doesn't this really, entirely depend on the toyline in question? GI Joe has had scale vehicles for years now, and even currently there's still giant offerings like the Pit. We'll never get another Flagg, sure, but if your toyline is small enough, there's no real reason not to have vehicles if everything else about them is reasonable.
Even then, you get collector-oriented stuff like the Hot Toys Tumbler, so ludicrous that no one ever saw it coming, but Mattel can't do a Movie Masters vehicle larger than the Batpod. So the company in question has a role to play in such a decision as well. It's nowhere close to a "yes or no" question.
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09-14-2009, 02:30 PM | #7 |
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As much of a stickler for in scale as I am, I have to say this has the old "catch 22" all over it. I would love in scale vehicles and sets as I grew up with not only GI JOE but had the original Falcon, AT AT, and other SW vehicles BUT I understand that they take up more shelf room and in this economy the expense of these larger items would probably hurt the market except for the most serious of collectors. As a kid I could hardly ever afford any vehicles, they had to wait for birthdays, Xmas, and special occasions so these days I know most kids couldn't afford them and will the parents put out the money for them? I mean look at the prices just for 3.75 scale figures{and the economy is one reason they're making a comback as far as from a production standpoint} now compared to years ago. So sadly I like many would love it but I don't know how effective sellers they would be due to cost.
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09-14-2009, 02:52 PM | #8 |
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I have to agree its great seeing these large vehicles like the falcon, turbo tank, and at-at but the prices have always been a bit too high especially now, personally I loved the action fleet series that star wars had you got allot of large scale vehicles with tons of detail in a portable size which means you could have more on display, its a true shame they canceled the line and the collectors fleet as well which included the imperial super star destroyer(which only made it into a few liquidation stores and I was able to get one) and star destroyer. then there's the titanium series line with a little note the star wars sith infiltrator that seats a single action figure is in perfect scale with the titanium series jedi interceptors and star wars micromachine figures)
It was get seeing the large vehicles but in the scheme of things to me their just too impracticable. personally I like medium to smaller ships their just easier to collect. |
09-14-2009, 03:55 PM | #9 |
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I think it boils down to size and price point. Sure, collectors and fans will get a big falcon, but at the 160 price point, along with this economy, parents aren't going to buy this for their kids. Same goes with other larger, more expensive, vehicles, ala turbo tank. GI Joe does it right, as they make somewhat smaller vehicles on a whole, that are in scale, and they sell well. Plus the SW market is completely saturated with so many different things, it's easier to pass on the larger vehicles, and purchase the umpteenth version of the TIE Fighter.
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09-14-2009, 07:14 PM | #10 |
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I still consider the 1/18 scale BBI Apache helicopter to be the best $35 I've ever spent, and am deeply saddened that their in-scale vehicles don't seem to be readily available at retail anymore. The BBI WWII aircraft in particular were utterly stunning; they were durable, well-constructed items with paint as good as one would expect from a model several times the $40 cost they demanded at most retail shops.
That said, I understand and empathize with both the parental and retailer dilemmas - the toys are so huge and devour so much room that many parents can't justify the sheer space they eat up (even at BBI's ludicrously low price points, let alone Hasbro's occasionally astronomical ones), and the fear of a box that massive shelf-warming today's increasingly limited toy aisles is an undeniable consideration. Heck, they broke the aforementioned Apache down to as small a footprint as one can expect without sacrificing durability, and that monster's box still clocked in at almost 2 feet long. Despite post-Christmas clearance sales bringing the behemoth down to around $15, it was still really easy to find that toy around here until nearly February. That's simply absurd for an item as well-crafted and undeniably appealing as the BBI Apache. At the end of the day, while I would kill a man in cold blood with a shovel for a shot at, say, a BBI 1/18 P-40 Tomahawk in the $40-$50 range, I fear that the days of viability for the affordable in-scale vehicle are fast waning for all but the most lucrative toy lines. Star Wars and GI Joe might be able to crank out one or two from time to time (lines with that kind of broad, ingrained cultural recognition are few, and only the 800 pound gorillas can afford those kinds of risky moves in these unstable times), but I seriously doubt that we'll again see an era of items that sizable across a broad range of properties like we did in the heyday of the 80's. Last edited by TenScaryMonkeys; 09-14-2009 at 07:40 PM.. |
09-14-2009, 07:50 PM | #11 |
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I prefer in scale or at least close. So long as the proportions of the vehicle are not compromised(for example, with a huge bulbous cockpit, huge missle launchers, et al).
A good example of out-of-scale vehicles that I still like are the G.I. Joe ARAH Night Raven, Skystriker, Rattler, Phantom X-19, Conquest X-30. For Star Wars, the recent Wedge Antilles X-Wing, most of the starfighter class vehicles($20+ range), and others. For example I like most of the ARAH vehicles compared to the newer ones primarily due to size. I do like vehicles to scale but I understand why some have to be smaller than expected. The G.I. Joe design team on ARAH did well with their vehicles. With all of this said, I do love the 1/18 scale military vehicles by JSI, Admiral Toys, 21st Century Toys, and BBI. They give us Joe fans the vehicles that we dreamt of having as we got older but never thought we would get. |
09-14-2009, 07:53 PM | #12 |
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I think the most important thing I can add to this conversation is this following statement:
In scale vehicles are more viable for toylines with collector's appeal, be it Star Wars, or G.I. Joe(or others) |
09-15-2009, 04:22 AM | #13 |
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Just a side note: The BMF is still about 2 1/2 feet of length from being 1/18 scale. It's basically at 1/36 scale. A truly in-scale Falcon would be about 6 ft long by 4ft wide by 1 1/2 feet tall (give or take a few inches in each direction).
The truth of the matter is that many Star Wars vehicles are simply completely impractical for true 1:18 scale or being perfectly in scale with the figures. We'd be talking about an entire line of USS Flagg-sized vehicles. Even Darth Maul's Sith Infiltrator, a vehicle designed for one single person, would be over four and a half feet long (larger than any vehicle currently in production). An X-Wing fighter would be just shy of 3 feet long (even longer than the BMF). I think the toy manufacturers have pretty much taken the best option they have: Make the vehicles as close to scale as possible when they can, and downsize the larger vehicles to make them feasible at a pricepoint that people outside of independently wealthy collectors might actually accept. Just for amusement's sake if anyone's interested, a 1:18 scale Star Destroyer would be about 290 feet long. A 1:18 scale Death Star I would be 5 1/2 miles in diameter. About the only way it could feasibly be built is as some kind of orbital space station for action figures.... |
09-15-2009, 01:47 PM | #14 |
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I love in-scale vehicles, but completely understand that the market can only bear so much in terms of accuracy, scale and pricepoint. Obviously, the smaller the scale, the more feasible vehicles would be.
Having said that, I think we'll see more lines in the future that have a smaller scale to accomodate smaller in-scale vehicles and playsets, while larger scales would only have a a couple of vehicles and possibly one or two playsets. One suggestion I might add is to make any playset or vehicle have the ability to interact with at least one other vehicle/playset in the line, while also work as a stand-alone toy. It would help sell the idea of buying more of the higher-priced toys, but still allow parents to buy only one, if necessary.
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09-18-2009, 10:10 AM | #15 |
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Since this whole discussion comes down to Hasbro and whether they'll make an even bigger Falcon or not (I guess is safe to say we're all happy with the overall GI Joe line and all the vehicles made by other companies in the same scale and also with the current size of most of the SW vehicles, such as the X-wing and Tie Fighter, and those vehicles that are currently getting the "enlargement" treatment such as the AT-ST, but we all got the feeling that the BMF still isn't big enough), I think it's time for Hasbro to make up their minds as whether their target is us or our kids.
Us fans of the original SW trilogy (although we're not baby boomers by any means), are willing, and in some cases, able to pay extra for a quality, in scale and movie accurate toy from licenses we care about, but we're not so eager to buy a high end toy from the same license to our children. So a good strategy for Hasbro would be to split their SW 1/18 line to please both generations. The BMF is the perfect example: is too big and expensive for a kid, but still too small and "toyish" for an adult collector (a lot of the people that bought the BMF, gave the old Falcon to their kids and started customizing the new one right out of the box). My suggestion would be to keep the old Falcon for the kids and give us, the fans of old, the Falcon we always dreamed of. I'm not talking about a single 6 feet long toy with the price tag of a brand new car, rather three or four different playsets (with the necessary size compromises, of course) each packed with lots of detail and features (and a couple of figures), depicting a key scene from any of the three original movies, able to connect with each other to form a huge Millennium Falcon vehicle, and designed thinking in the adult collector from the start. To make this financially feasible for consumers, retailers and the manufacturer alike, Hasbro could just release each piece every two or so months at less the cost of a single BMF. The consumer's need for a completed Millennium Falcon, would ensure that every playset would sell. Last edited by Lucas; 09-18-2009 at 10:13 AM.. |
09-18-2009, 12:20 PM | #16 |
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Quote:
Since this whole discussion comes down to Hasbro and whether they'll make an even bigger Falcon or not (I guess is safe to say we're all happy with the overall GI Joe line and all the vehicles made by other companies in the same scale and also with the current size of most of the SW vehicles, such as the X-wing and Tie Fighter, and those vehicles that are currently getting the "enlargement" treatment such as the AT-ST, but we all got the feeling that the BMF still isn't big enough), I think it's time for Hasbro to make up their minds as whether their target is us or our kids.
Us fans of the original SW trilogy (although we're not baby boomers by any means), are willing, and in some cases, able to pay extra for a quality, in scale and movie accurate toy from licenses we care about, but we're not so eager to buy a high end toy from the same license to our children. So a good strategy for Hasbro would be to split their SW 1/18 line to please both generations. The BMF is the perfect example: is too big and expensive for a kid, but still too small and "toyish" for an adult collector (a lot of the people that bought the BMF, gave the old Falcon to their kids and started customizing the new one right out of the box). My suggestion would be to keep the old Falcon for the kids and give us, the fans of old, the Falcon we always dreamed of. I'm not talking about a single 6 feet long toy with the price tag of a brand new car, rather three or four different playsets (with the necessary size compromises, of course) each packed with lots of detail and features (and a couple of figures), depicting a key scene from any of the three original movies, able to connect with each other to form a huge Millennium Falcon vehicle, and designed thinking in the adult collector from the start. To make this financially feasible for consumers, retailers and the manufacturer alike, Hasbro could just release each piece every two or so months at less the cost of a single BMF. The consumer's need for a completed Millennium Falcon, would ensure that every playset would sell. |
09-18-2009, 01:38 PM | #17 |
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I kinda hope hasbro would consider the same with playsets. Think about it, interconnective playsets that work on a by room basis that become a shield helicarrier in scale when all connected over time. Like a BAF world I keep talking about.
There's no reason that it couldn't be done to be honest. Doll houses do it all the time. Why not build an entire world like that? Sewers with street tops that interconnect, to rooms that build stark tower, or the X-mansion, or avengers mansion. Even the sentry tower. And even the shield helicarrier, or as others mentioned the millenium falcon by chunks. It'd lower the cost per item for greater sales, allow fans and kids alike to build there own desired one, and could cover the entire marvel or SW universe, even Joe universe ones in time. It makes it financially feasible for fans and kids alike, increases play value, and creativity all at the same time. I know I've mentioned it before about playsets, but the idea very well could be adapted to the large scale vehicles too. Like the Flagg carrier, Shield Helicarrier, Millenium falcon, even the black bird. It also circumvents the toy safety laws a shade, since only each piece would have to pass. Not the full on vehicle. Heck something like that could even work for a real to scale fortress maximus, or metroplex. To alleviate the store aspect, they could sell it online too, as well as assort the cases to an even divide over a length of time. Sure it may take a 3 years to build a full helicarrier, or flagg, or even MF, but it'd be worth it! Like I said before, if dollhouses can do it, why can't action figures? Interactivity and universal adaption are also a must. That way if someone built let's say stark tower for example, but could never get the sentry tower pieces, they could use helicarrier ones, or the helicarrier could fit Millenium falcon ones, or stark's armory ones, etc. This way even if you're missing parts, you can still fit place holder ones till you find that part if ever. Making your world more you at the same time and less like everyone elses. It'd be a great way to revitalize the built to rule line. Last edited by Snowflakian; 09-18-2009 at 01:45 PM.. |
09-18-2009, 03:35 PM | #18 |
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Snowflakian, I love your idea of inter-connecting playsets and rooms. I think that would be the best thing to happen to action figures in a long, long time. I don't, however, think that having to buy multiple build-a-sets would work. The fans would eat it up of course, but having to buy all the different sets to complete a building would be a hassle. I would love the sets interconnecting, but not necessarily be part of the same playset.
For example, you could have an underground sewer/tunnels playset and have another building interior that could stack on top. Or another building type, warehouse, that could connect to the side of the previous building. You could construct and build your world any way you see fit. And you wouldn't have to buy every single piece to complete a building or playset. Most of us would buy them all, but you wouldn't have to. |
09-18-2009, 08:35 PM | #19 |
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Quote:
Snowflakian, I love your idea of inter-connecting playsets and rooms. I think that would be the best thing to happen to action figures in a long, long time. I don't, however, think that having to buy multiple build-a-sets would work. The fans would eat it up of course, but having to buy all the different sets to complete a building would be a hassle. I would love the sets interconnecting, but not necessarily be part of the same playset.
For example, you could have an underground sewer/tunnels playset and have another building interior that could stack on top. Or another building type, warehouse, that could connect to the side of the previous building. You could construct and build your world any way you see fit. And you wouldn't have to buy every single piece to complete a building or playset. Most of us would buy them all, but you wouldn't have to. Right, like cubed sections almost. That way let's say you did build the avengers mansion. Each room could be which ever you chose for the exterior to even look whatever way you wanted. You wouldn't have to build stark's tower per se either. Or could give Rhodes an adjoining tony like office etc. That way if you had the morlock tunnels it could connect to the bugle, or the x-mansion, or even the avengers mansion without being needed outright. You could do it of your own accord. As the pieces could just build on each other. The shield helicarrier this way could also be revamped to whatever style you chose. Whether you favor training rooms, holding cells, or even just a massive command room, it's in your hands to choose how it comes together. The exterior panels could just be like sliding pieces that lock in and out based on where you want them even. So that way you wouldn't have to worry about having the right exterior to your sewer, helicarrier, millenium falcon, or even Flagg. Just slide out the piece, stack or attach the next, then slide in the new exterior plating that you wanted. =D Or as you suggested even a random storage/warehouse cube, it could fit in the avengers mansion, X-mansion even stark tower or the flagg, or even be it's own warehouse, but where it goes and what it becomes is in your hands. All the while still compatible to the sewer ones too, or the above shop street panels, or what not. Every cube is universally compatible this way to build on as you see fit in any way you see fit. I wish I could find pics of the dollhouse already like this that's made out of plastic instead of wood for an example. The warehouse one with I beams could also be used for the numerous times the Avengers mansion or X-mansion have been rebuilt too. So now you've just expanded one cube from a warehouse idea to numerous amounts of ideas, whatever your imagination can come up with for it. So this way if you only had enough room to display one floor of let's say stark tower, you would only have to buy maybe 4 cubes if even of whatever you wanted. Or one cube of each just to display them or have kids play with them, but then the more you buy you also have the option of building a full on world. But's not needed to enjoy them. They could be enjoyed by themselves too. The interconnectivity just creates more reason to buy the mundane random ones. Like secretary offices, etc. This keeps products moving, while still bringing in the better ones like stark's office, or the avengers board table for meetings, etc. The avengers mansion could have a danger room. Or the lizards could use the morlock tunnels to break into the bugle building and more. Even a punisher tech room, that could double as a deadpool or cable safe room for them and their weapons. Or for the safe room, you could lower the beams, so it'd fit in a van enclosure, and voila, not only do you have a safe room piece with punisher armanents, but you have a piece that'd condense itself to fit and work inside a punisher style van. The possibilities are endless. And the part usage is mostly repeated barring a few paint apps, or detail pieces that could slide in and out on a whim. That same safe room could have a slide in panel to make it forge's workshop too. So now we have one cube, just one, that covers 4 characters outright. Add in an XSE portal panel, and you've just covered Bishop and shard too. And now not only does the helicarrier have an armanents room, but also a development room, or negative zone portal room, etc. Aim invention room, Hydra room, and the list goes on. This way you could build not only the shield helicarrier, but even the hydra ship used in the X-23 X-men Evolution episodes. It's only limited to what you want to build. Each cube is self contained but also compatible to each other on all sides. Like starks armory piece could have 2x2 armory slots. But if you keep attaching those 2x2 slots to each other, now you have a massive 2x16 armory, or even just a simple 2x4 stane one of stolen armors. Or one for 'shield' concept armors in the armory, or 2x2 vault guardsmen charge stations. The same could be said for all the pieces. That avengers boardroom, could double up as just a stark board meeting room, or the Dark Avengers conference room. You could even build the weapon X facility from Danger room pieces, or 'development lab' safe rooms. The pieces needed would just be adjust beams, and removable crossbeams maybe even one panel that has a clip in spot for the two pack wolvie chamber, don't have the chamber? Well don't use that panel for the ground piece =D . So you could have a massive development lab, or a tiny little safe room. It's all in how you put them together, and then build on it. So you could even create your own buildings, or massive badguy goodguy aerial carriers or vessels. Wanted to make a millenium falcon mk II? Why not? And so on down the line. Make the entire line cover everything from star wars to joes, to marvel, with full compatibility to each other, and you've got not only hydra and aim vessels, or even shield, but also a star destroyer, or dare I say it, a massive death star or Cobra Submarine. Then they could dock to let's say a cobra island you built, or stark tower, or death star, or whatever you please! Helicarrier holding cells could even double up as say the vault prison cells. Or hydra holding cells, it just all depends on where you want it or how you want to use it. Stability would be the only question, but once all the pieces are locked together for your vision, it should hold itself completely stable for play value. About 8inchx8inch cubes should do it. But that's minimum height, I'd almost recommend 10x10 to be safe with ratchet able vertical beams so they are adjustable to lower or raise the height as needed then with the panels you'd just need to include a few, maybe with horizontal cuts for various height changes at key spots, this would include interior and exterior panels, floor and ceiling too. You could then create MJ and spidey's date alley with just two cubes using building exteriors for interiors and no crossbeams. Even add the tinkerers lab underneath it if you chose. This way extra filler pieces could be used to each as well from previous to expand on what you already have parts wise if you so chose. About 4 ratchet verticle beams, 2 removable, and the open side crossbeams removable with whatever interior and exterior removable panels for each set. Though that starts putting the rooms at about 30 bucks or so a pop, this could be alleviated with other more creative means as I'm just running off the top of my head as is. Oh and the ratchet beams let you have sloped ceilings if you need em too. =) Cause helicarriers, hydra etc all use slopes to various degrees at different points. Last edited by Snowflakian; 09-18-2009 at 09:34 PM.. |
09-18-2009, 08:55 PM | #20 |
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Everything you said is exactly how it should be.
I know exactly the cube dollhouses you're talking about. My TRU had them on clearance by the front registers for a while about a year or two ago. They were the different rooms of a house. All little cubes. You could build the house however you wanted. I would look at them all the time and think how they could be repainted and converted into an X Mansion or something. I never see them anywhere anymore. |
09-18-2009, 09:36 PM | #21 |
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Quote:
Everything you said is exactly how it should be.
I know exactly the cube dollhouses you're talking about. My TRU had them on clearance by the front registers for a while about a year or two ago. They were the different rooms of a house. All little cubes. You could build the house however you wanted. I would look at them all the time and think how they could be repainted and converted into an X Mansion or something. I never see them anywhere anymore. Heck they could just sell the rachet beam cubes themselves, and have the panelings as bonus packs. Need more brick like exteriors? Just buy a pack of them. etc. That would also help cut down cost, and up buying potential between them. Last edited by Snowflakian; 09-18-2009 at 09:49 PM.. |
09-22-2009, 10:36 AM | #22 |
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Personally, I'm a big fan of in-scale vehicles. That is one of the main reasons I fell in love with G.I. Joe toys when I was a kid. Although rising prices make some vehicles almost too expensive I still like them. It gives you something to look forward to getting. Now that playsets are going the way of the dodo it seems like they are blending large scale vehicles and playsets into one item making it more attractive for potential buyers.
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