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07-10-2017, 02:16 PM | #26 |
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,233
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If you're being anal, sure.
Everyone suddenly cares about these things when a character is no longer white. |
07-10-2017, 02:32 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 613
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07-10-2017, 02:41 PM | #28 |
Kirby Crackle Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Diego County, CA
Posts: 2,843
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Quote:
Because its lazy name slapping. Because matt trakker was white. They coulda made hondo the new leader or had matt be part of a bigger organization and his boss be black. I think its mainly fans are tired of seeing race/ gender swapping of long established characters as it does not truly expand a brand/line/product and just panders to the vocal minority.
True expansion comes from creating NEW characters not just lazily slapping a pre-established character's name and history onto a different body. Hell, I loved MASK when I was a young'n, but I couldn't pick out a damn one of them out of a line-up without their vehicles nearby. I still can't, because the vehicles were as much, if not more, of a selling point. Whatever depth of character there might be with Matt, it certainly didn't stem from him being as generically cookie-cutter as nearly every other major 'strong male' team leader from cartoons of the era. I didn't even watch Centurions all that much, but you'd better believe that I remembered that Tom Selleck-looking Max Ray a helluva lot better than I remember any of the droves of blonde white dudes in other cartoons. But I saw one image of Matt in the new comics, and I actually took notice. Certainly more than I ever could remember noticing him in the old days. Do I think there need to be more new characters, as you said? Absolutely. But I also know, just as you probably could figure out, that newer characters are a hard sell, and to get them off the ground, you still need audience investment. And a good way to get them to come in is to give them a change that catches their eye. And even with all the crying here, they still have your attention. Might not get you reading the book/buying the toy, but you're only one out of many, many people. And I'm sorry, but the whole 'lazy name slapping' thing has been around for too long to be a viable argument any more, especially when a great number of those 'name-slaps' have grown more popular than the original use of the name. Any peek into the Transformers fiction will show you that. I'm seriously looking at Matt Trakker's personality and history, and not seeing anything tied to his race or cultural heritage. So why not change him? He's still the same character. Getting chapped about it isn't doing anything but drawing attention to the unwillingness to accept change.
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07-10-2017, 02:46 PM | #29 |
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,233
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That's because Asian Americans tend to get crapped on in Hollywood. There's no lack of roles for white actors. I'm sorry but when I see people pitching a fit over a black guy leading M.A.S.K. of all things, it seems like performative outrage.
Last edited by hasbroherofan; 07-10-2017 at 02:49 PM.. |
07-10-2017, 02:46 PM | #30 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 183
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That ROM 3.75" figure: Yuck. We could probably do a kit-bash that would look far better than this official version.
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07-10-2017, 02:51 PM | #31 |
Overlord of Evil
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lost Ruins.
Posts: 14,356
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@bb Tf is a prime example ( mainly the craptacular bayverese ) oh how name slapping is not a good idea. I ge creatng a new character is a hard sell but unless we get new the name slap thing is never gonna end, i get certain characters can be " legacy" but certain ones arent. It is lazy ( and cheap ) by companies as they try to put short term profits over the longevity ( and sustainabilty ) of franchises. I just don't like it as it promotes laziness and lack of creativity, creativity that once made entertainment great.
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Last edited by Harbinger; 07-10-2017 at 02:57 PM.. |
07-10-2017, 02:55 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,311
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07-10-2017, 02:55 PM | #33 |
Illyria's New Qwa'ha Xahn
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: In the clouds.
Posts: 4,120
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Quote:
Because its lazy name slapping. Because matt trakker was white. They coulda made hondo the new leader or had matt be part of a bigger organization and his boss be black. I think its mainly fans are tired of seeing race/ gender swapping of long established characters as it does not truly expand a brand/line/product and just panders to the vocal minority.
True expansion comes from creating NEW characters not just lazily slapping a pre-established character's name and history onto a different body. When race does play a factor to the character nature, it can't be changed. Matt Trakker is one it doesn't matter. Johnny Storm is one that it doesn't matter(on that one they should have played it up more about how Franklin seemed to favor his adopted daughter over his own son and then explore that for the emotional turnover of Johnny's rebelliousness and acceptance of his sister, they hinted at it, but never really made it clear to the audience). It varies character to character based on their innate metaphors. Being white isn't innate to their metaphor, though it is for a character like Ironfist. Same as race is innate to other characters like America Chavez being a Latina, Black Panther being African. White Tiger being a Latina. Etc. Those can't be changed because it's part of their character metaphor to who they are. Changing ones that don't matter, isn't a big deal. If more kids get enjoyment out of it because of it, yay. It's not pandering. If you don't like it, you can still buy the previous released Trakker figure that's based on his classic self. That one has already been released and is somewhat cheap to find on ebay. So IDW chose to vary it up on a character that was open to do so. It's not a big deal. New characters get created, people still call that pandering. Change a character for an AU based story, people whine then too. Personally, I think the change is awesome of IDW. I really don't get why it's such an issue either way. New interpretations happen all the time. It's what makes comics great. Last edited by Snowflakian; 07-10-2017 at 03:00 PM.. |
07-10-2017, 03:02 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 613
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All that aside, anybody want to hook me up with A Matt Trakker and ROM figure |
07-10-2017, 03:03 PM | #35 |
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,233
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I thought the whole point for the Skyfire name and face change was that there were rights issues since Jetfire was just a repainted Valkyrie. |
07-10-2017, 03:30 PM | #36 |
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 293
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Cool, but somehow not interested.
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07-10-2017, 03:33 PM | #37 |
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: United Kingom
Posts: 4,295
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Toy crossovers don't work.
Look at all the different people from different threads here, we can't even get along to complain together! That said, I'd go $33 for ROM cash in advance, despite his flaws. Any takers PM me. What is a Marvel display without him standing next to Deaths Head?
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07-10-2017, 04:17 PM | #38 |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 847
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The only thing I'm seeing is a bunch of whiny not!kids complaining that something was changed without giving a valid reason not to change it.
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And I'm sorry, but the whole 'lazy name slapping' thing has been around for too long to be a viable argument any more
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especially when a great number of those 'name-slaps' have grown more popular than the original use of the name. Any peek into the Transformers fiction will show you that.
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That's because Asian Americans tend to get crapped on in Hollywood. There's no lack of roles for white actors.
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The irony is that a lotta anime tends to look more american than asian. And thats drawn BY asians.
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Because when race doesn't play a factor in the character's persona, it's open for any interpretation.
When race does play a factor to the character nature, it can't be changed. However, as an aside, I would be genuinely interested to know what black (or non-white) characters of prominence in the Marvel Universe you would be ok with race-swapping to white. And a couple of prominent white characters who you think couldn't be racially changed. Genuinely curious. About the toys: I like the Rom, even though he's flawed. I like the Leoric, although no holograms is a MAJOR letdown, but these are going to be scalped to high hell on eBay so I might pass on them both. Last edited by Lionheart; 07-10-2017 at 04:21 PM.. |
07-10-2017, 04:21 PM | #39 |
Illyria's New Qwa'ha Xahn
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: In the clouds.
Posts: 4,120
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Quote:
I haven't been following TF but is there a reason they're allowed to use the original face now? Was there some kind of settlement with the Macross people?
I thought the whole point for the Skyfire name and face change was that there were rights issues since Jetfire was just a repainted Valkyrie. Same way TF Prime Arcee is inspired by Priss from Bubblegum Crisis, but is different enough it's a non-issue. The original toy though on the other hand, likely won't see any kind of re-release stateside ever except maybe at a convention where the rules can be a little more relaxed since it's not meant for normal retail market. |
07-10-2017, 04:39 PM | #40 |
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,233
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'm pretty sure there's no shortage of great roles for Asians in, say, China, or Japan.
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in the Thor movie we were supposed to be seeing Asgard, a land based on Norse (Scandinavian) mythology - which was the Scandinavian image of gods based on themselves - yet they didn't have any problem making Heimdall black.
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Same with the Greek island of Themyscira - multi racial.
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It genuinely interests me as to whether or not we are going to see a multi-racial Wakanda in the upcoming movie.
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Because it's different enough to pay homage without infringing on the likeness of a veritech fighter.
Same way TF Prime Arcee is inspired by Priss from Bubblegum Crisis, but is different enough it's a non-issue. The original toy though on the other hand, likely won't see any kind of re-release stateside ever except maybe at a convention where the rules can be a little more relaxed since it's not meant for normal retail market. |
07-10-2017, 05:31 PM | #41 |
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,621
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However, as an aside, I would be genuinely interested to know what black (or non-white) characters of prominence in the Marvel Universe you would be ok with race-swapping to white. And a couple of prominent white characters who you think couldn't be racially changed. Genuinely curious.
I think we should veer away from this type of discussion, it isn't really suitable for the thread and if it escalates the mods would have to step in.
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07-10-2017, 05:37 PM | #42 |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 847
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I think their initial point was that clearly, it's not as big a problem as people keep saying it is.
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Agree. They should just go back to where they came from.
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Thor had an out because the first movie pretty much says they aren't the same as the gods from Norse mythology, but inspired them. That's why Kat Dennings' character has a line about primitive cultures like Vikings mistaking the Asgardians for celestial deities.
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Themyscira being multiracial is straight fro the comics. The origin of the Amazons was that they were reincarnated from women who were brutalized or murdered across history.
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There's no way that's happening. Besides they already have Klaw and Martin Freeman's character.
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07-10-2017, 05:54 PM | #43 |
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,233
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Not the original comics - just the rebooted version.
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Well, we don't know for certain yet
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07-10-2017, 05:59 PM | #44 |
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pasadena, TX
Posts: 3,099
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War-Machine I guess could be made white, his basic background is just military service and being Tony's friend, and I think Steve Rogers should always be white because he comes from the 1940s when I doubt the military would make anyone else a super-soldier and him being white helps him represent opposition to the Nazis by someone they would gladly have on their side.
CCC. |
07-10-2017, 06:44 PM | #45 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Delaware
Posts: 2,114
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Perspective: MASK was poorly animated, thinly plotted drivel made to sell toys and was popular for like 2 years in the 80s. The heroes you should actually care about are the significant others who support you action figure hoarding maniacs while you sit around typing essay length posts about comics and fantasy for hours on end.
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Thor Laserpunch |
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07-10-2017, 07:53 PM | #46 |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 847
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Whatever you say....
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From thirty something years ago, yes. Pretty much every adaptation since then has gone with that depiction.
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No I can say pretty certainly there won't be white people in Wakanda. Other than frozen Bucky, I guess. Unless that's where Stan Lee's cameo is, which admittedly would be funny.
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Perspective: MASK was poorly animated, thinly plotted drivel made to sell toys and was popular for like 2 years in the 80s.
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The heroes you should actually care about are the significant others who support you action figure hoarding maniacs while you sit around typing essay length posts about comics and fantasy for hours on end.
Last edited by Lionheart; 07-10-2017 at 08:04 PM.. |
07-10-2017, 08:12 PM | #47 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Delaware
Posts: 2,114
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Ok, care too much about dumb stuff. Does me no harm.
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Thor Laserpunch |
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07-10-2017, 08:26 PM | #48 |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 847
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Ok, care too much about dumb stuff. Does me no harm.
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07-10-2017, 09:08 PM | #49 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,117
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ohh, this i like but why did they make it 3.75 lost a sale rite there from me. always liked ROM and Mask. if they make it 6" ill buy it for sure
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07-10-2017, 09:14 PM | #50 |
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,117
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if you think its dumb, no one is forcing you to be here. |
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