[ludovicotek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steevy Maximus

Personally, I'm rather shocked and a little disappointed in the VASTLY overblown sense of entitlement fans of DCUC seem to have. You guys are not being treated any worse than fans of GI Joe or MOTU, if anything, I applaud Mattel for taking a chance in offering the sub to begin with given the, frankly, pitiful performance of prior DCUC products on Matty collector.

Yeah, Mattel is really doing something unprecedented here with this club. If I were into DC I'd be all over this in a heartbeat.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steevy Maximus

With the MOTUC line, Mattel basically revealed the rest of this year's line, and next year's offerings through March along with the incentive figure due to ship around March. First figure of the next sub will be released in January.

With DCUC, the sub doesn't even START until next April, and is slated to run through the end of the year. Even so, you DCUC guys have had just under half your line revealed. And again, the sub won't even kick in for another 7/8 months.

Personally, I'm rather shocked and a little disappointed in the VASTLY overblown sense of entitlement fans of DCUC seem to have. You guys are not being treated any worse than fans of GI Joe or MOTU, if anything, I applaud Mattel for taking a chance in offering the sub to begin with given the, frankly, pitiful performance of prior DCUC products on Matty collector.

This.

[Steevy Maximus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludovicotek

^ I think KshatriyaNZ666 meant when MOTUC FIRST went on sale, two years ago. Did Mattel announce the full year's lineup or only the first 3-4 figures?

ONLY the first 3-4 figures. The only time they showed the "full subscription" was for the 2009 partial sub (the first year they were offered, and it was only for the final 3-5 months of figures, figures revealed at that SDCC to begin with)

And it should also be noted that Mattel has NOT revealed anything new in either Ghostbusters or MOTU since SDCC. The only sub they've been pushing new reveals in is DCUC, likely because they are still trying to make it work.

Again, it is worth noting that the sub extensions have seemingly been largely to give DCUC collectors enough chances to actually sign up. The other subs were likely extended to avoid the fan bitching and backlash that DCUC was given more time to sign up than the other subs.

[KshatriyaNZ666]

^ All righty then, thanks.

So with that, I don't really see an issue with the Infinite Earth reveals so far. Were getting equal treatment as when Club Eternia first started - heck, maybe even better treatment (a slight bit that is).

[mrmr]

Just put down my money for this thing. Hope it works out and I get my moneys worth.

[ToyAddict]

Barring a miracle, it looks like the subscription will fail. Time for my rant. . .

Mattel manages a subscription for Ghostbusters. . .4 core A-list characters and a few dozen supporting cast.

They've got MOTUC. . .more A-listers in this but, man, have you seen some of the figures they've put out? I was an avid watcher of the He-Man cartoon in the 80s, but I have no idea who Count Marzo, Gygor, or Megator are, for example.

The DC Universe has hundreds of characters. Granted, we've got a great many of them by now, but there is still a LOT that could be done that would be a shame if it didn't happen.

Seems like the biggest complaint is not cost, but character selection. Personally, I have no desire for Atrocitus nor for Starman. "Meh" for Golden Age Flash. I think I saw that Poison Ivy is supposed to be in it too -- for me, that's a must-have.

I suggest they split the subscriptions into several smaller broad-themed subscriptions.

1) Batman Legacy. If they don't continue this at retail that is. Still need several characters here -- Poison Ivy, Mad Hatter, The Ventriloquist, Black Mask, Hush, Alfred, Oracle, Huntress, Damian, Zsasz (that would make a great SDCC exclusive, hint hint), Firefly, Ra's Al Ghul, Talia. . .the list could go on for a long time. That's not even counting any of the movie-verse (how about a Batman with Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer, and George Clooney heads, Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman, Jim Carrey Riddler, Arnold S Mr. Freeze, Michael Caine Alfred, Liam Neeson Ducard. . .but no thanks on a Christopher Walken figure) or the video-game-verse.

2) Cartoons & Comics -- have a subscription for cartoon-versions we haven't seen yet. JLU-style Vigilante, Despero, Aquaman (fish-hook hand), Dove (Don Hall) and Toyman; Super Powers Kalibak, Orion, and Penguin, etc. And anyone else who appears in the show that isn't a toy yet. . .Aztek, The Shade, Live Wire, Vixen, Fire, Shining Knight, Circe, Mirror Master, Morgaine La Fey, Volcana, Mxyzptlk (need both a Super Powers and a JLU version) etc. This could be where we get those last figures to finish out sets, like the Golden Age Flash. Throw in supporting cast here too: Steve Trevor, Jimmy Olsen, Hippolyta, and sure even Marvin and Wendy.

3) Lanterns -- yeah they tried it for two waves in GL Classics and DCUC wave 17, but they could go all out and do a bunch of other members of the Green Lantern Corps (Arkkis Chummuck and the other GL's that appeared in episodes of JLU would make me happy) and then there's all the other characters in all the other colors. I can see how this would have failed at retail (too many obscure characters) but possibly could thrive in a subscription. Or maybe do these in big box sets of teams, like they're doing for LOSH.

I think there are enough characters there for each group, and a big enough fan base for each, that they could pull it off. I really can't imagine that the fan base for Ghostbusters or possibly Voltron (heck, maybe even MOTU) is bigger than the fan base for any one of these groups.

Crazy as it may sound, I'd buy subscriptions to 2 or 3 of these groups, but I don't plan on buying a sub to Club Infinite Earths. The first few figures revealed, nor any of the Fans' Choice oversized figure possibilities, don't have me interested enough. So long as Poison Ivy gets a home in the retail line of Batman Legacy.

Rant done. I welcome any critiques of the idea, and anyone who might actually have the ear of someone at Mattel to bounce this off them. I love DCUC and don't want to see it die.

[ludovicotek]

The potential for this line is staggering. And you make some very valid points. Specifically in the instance of Ghostbusters and how Mattel is able to sustain a whole line for several years off of only really four core characters. Kinda crazy. I also believe that some people at Mattel, not everyone but the the ones who ultimately make the call, need to see a significant commitment to this line before they think it's even worth the effort. They're still going to have their main product at retail. I think that the sign up quota for DCUC is significantly higher than GB. Possibly even MOTUC.

In the end, though, I don't want to see this line go away either.

[ToyAddict]

Yeah, I guess I just think if they split it up, people would have a better idea of what they're getting into. If there were a sub for GL/Blackest Night/Brightest Day, you'd expect to get Atrocitus, Kryb, Larfleeze, Indigo-1, etc. If that's what you are into, cool.

A sub for comics/cartoon/completion of teams, you'd have at least a less-vague-than-it-is-now feeling for what could be. This is still pretty broad.

A sub for Batman -- people would be all over it I think. Actually I think Batman Legacy could last a good long while at retail if they want it to. (Anyone know if they plan on taking it beyond two waves?)

But as it is now, just due to the particular character selection revealed so far, not based on what I know it could be, my feeling is that I'd be putting down a good chunk of money on a bunch of figures that I want less than half of (like I said, I don't want Atrocitus or Starman, don't want any of the oversized ones in the poll, iffy on Flash, really want Poison Ivy). I'm sure others here probably have the same feeling, though they may differ on which of these characters they do or don't want.

I'm already not buying Young Justice, and I don't plan on buying the reboot stuff. If they want my money, they'll have to do better.

[ludovicotek]

A Batman sub would do very well. I think even I'd buy into that one without hesitation.

[Tiberius]

I still think the price is to high for what we get. Only thing thats stopped me. It also takes the thrill out of the hunt too. I hope this doesn't completely stop DCUC figures, but I am hoping this gives Mattel an idea of what fans really want.

[thechris]

I can see them saying that "Even though we didn't get enough subscriptions, we're still going through with it.". They probably doubled their goal subscription amount purposely to "scare" some of us into signing up for fear of losing the line altogether... On a positive note, their customer service is probably the best I've ever dealt with.

[Roufuss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToyAddict

A sub for Batman -- people would be all over it I think. Actually I think Batman Legacy could last a good long while at retail if they want it to. (Anyone know if they plan on taking it beyond two waves?)

I have to imagine it will stop just before the reboot stuff hits, so they have an excuse to re-release Batman and Joker again.

[ludovicotek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechris

I can see them saying that "Even though we didn't get enough subscriptions, we're still going through with it.". They probably doubled their goal subscription amount purposely to "scare" some of us into signing up for fear of losing the line altogether... On a positive note, their customer service is probably the best I've ever dealt with.

I hope you're right.

[ToyAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I still think the price is to high for what we get. Only thing thats stopped me. It also takes the thrill out of the hunt too. I hope this doesn't completely stop DCUC figures, but I am hoping this gives Mattel an idea of what fans really want.

Yeah, I hear ya! I remember the days of DCSH when they were $8.99. I KNOW I got a Cyborg Superman from Big Lots with a big ol' $9 sticker on it back when he was ridiculously hard to find and going for like $60 on eBay. Now they are $16 plus tax at Target and Walmart. Kmart had them for $12.99 for a long time (except around here my KMarts only had wave 13 -- one had wave 15), but I think with this reset they upped it to over $15 ($15.29?).

So yeah I know there's reluctance to pay for figures we don't want. At $15 I definitely had to stop being a completist to being choosey on which ones to get. So I guess what I'm saying is if they made sub-group subscriptions there'd be less chance for a person to get someone they don't want.

They're charging $15 plus shipping (and tax I assume) for a figure. That's not that much more than retail. The die-hard collectors this is designed for will probably pony up for it. And the oversize figures at $30 doesn't sound all that bad. Many of the existing CNC's go for that or more on eBay. And you don't have to buy some figures you don't want in order to complete him, like you do now with the waves.

[Tiberius]

Yesterday I scored Cyclotron, Raven, and Starman for 7.99 each. I fair price because they are all mediocre figures. Wish they would include flight stands or something. Maybe they will down the road.

[ToyAddict]

We had a KMart go out of business; closed up last Saturday. You know how they do those. . .they knock a little higher percentage off each week till it's all gone. I decided to grab a Blue Devil and modern Blue Beetle (yeah, they never got past wave 13) at half price. . .$6.50 each. I went back on their last day, when everything was 90% off. They STILL had Cyclotron and 2 or 3 modern Cheetahs on the shelf.

Raven and Starman at $8 is a steal!

But back on topic. . .my question to you, Tiberius, is if they offered a whole subscription full of characters you wanted, would you pay $20-ish for them?

To sum up my overall point, I think what's preventing club membership sales is a feeling from us potential buyers that we'll be paying a ton of money (Problem 1) for figures we might not want (Problem 2). I can't see Mattel doing anything about the price problem (again, at $15 it's less than retail; and seeing that Young Justice 6" are $20). I'm offering a suggestion they could use to fix the second half of the problem.

At the very least, if they really wanted to sell this, tell us every figure planned for the subscription. Or throw it wide open to voting. . .they could compile a list of EVERY unmade character that they can make (that their licensing allows for) and put up a poll on mattycollector starting with this: Which characters would you pay $20 for? Choose up to 15. We'll make the top 10 for the Club this year.

[Tiberius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToyAddict

We had a KMart go out of business; closed up last Saturday. You know how they do those. . .they knock a little higher percentage off each week till it's all gone. I decided to grab a Blue Devil and modern Blue Beetle (yeah, they never got past wave 13) at half price. . .$6.50 each. I went back on their last day, when everything was 90% off. They STILL had Cyclotron and 2 or 3 modern Cheetahs on the shelf.

Raven and Starman at $8 is a steal!

But back on topic. . .my question to you, Tiberius, is if they offered a whole subscription full of characters you wanted, would you pay $20-ish for them?

To sum up my overall point, I think what's preventing club membership sales is a feeling from us potential buyers that we'll be paying a ton of money (Problem 1) for figures we might not want (Problem 2). I can't see Mattel doing anything about the price problem (again, at $15 it's less than retail; and seeing that Young Justice 6" are $20). I'm offering a suggestion they could use to fix the second half of the problem.

At the very least, if they really wanted to sell this, tell us every figure planned for the subscription. Or throw it wide open to voting. . .they could compile a list of EVERY unmade character that they can make (that their licensing allows for) and put up a poll on mattycollector starting with this: Which characters would you pay $20 for? Choose up to 15. We'll make the top 10 for the Club this year.

That is a very good question. after thinking for a bit, I would still say no. Mainly because I do not need to have every single figure for a wave [unless I want the BAF]. I only like to complete my teams, and a lot of figures out there bring me very close to the completion mark for those teams [JSA, JLA, JLI]. For the money they are asking for DCUC is, to me, unacceptable in comparison to MOTUC.

For example, Hawkman comes with 2 weapons, and a shield. That to me, is up to standards for a figure for accessories. Now don't get me wrong, I know it would be hard to give Superman accessories, but giving him an alternate head with eye slots for plastic heat ray beams to put into his eyes is not to out of this world I would think. Giving Martian Manhunter a alt head too and a alt arm would be fair too [like with his variant, but added all into one figure]. Green Lanterns with constructs, I could go on all day with what Mattel should do. So far, the best bang for my buck has been the Metal Men.

[Crazy Jetty]

Judging by a lot of comments I've seen as to why the DCUC club is failing comes down to a few factors. Mainly one. I see a *lot* of obstinate fans with a rather disproportionate feeling of self entitlement, and an utterly dumbfounding belief that if this fails, then everything will return to retail as iff nothing had ever happened, and a failing line that loses money for mattel will just continue on.
This very thread was begun with the hopes the club will fail.

Combine this when you look at the differences between DCUC and the other subscriptions.
Ghostbusters and MOTU, the fans of both these lines know there is absolutely zero hope of them ever being released at retail.
DCUC began at retail, and has been there for years.
Being completely honest, Mattel announced that they have plans for a DCUC-like line for retail to take it's place, starring only a and b list characters, at the same time they announced the subscription club which is their solution to give us the c-z list characters, and the BaF level figures.

It looks like a lot of people seem to think that Mattel is bluffing us. Trying to take us for all the money they can, and it even seems some people seem to feel that holding out and trying to insure the subscription service fails, they will become the heroes twarting the villainous Mattel's evil plan. And when they fail, the statis quo will return to normal.
Maybe this is an extreme overexaguration, but this is honestly the vibe I pick up.

Is Mattel's solution perfect? No. But in all honesty, I couldn't come up with any better without it becoming even more expensive. I feel this is probably the best they can do right now.If it gets going, they can refine and tweak it, and give us somethoing better for year two.
Maybe they'll listen to us and ask us what we felt worked and what didn't, and changes we may like to see made.

I know I certainly don't want Starman... I'd never heard of him before this... but I'll take him in order to get Atrocitus, Jay, and Poison Ivy. And the potential we may get Indigo-1, Saint Walker, Ragdoll, and Mia Dearden down the road.
And I've never heard of Shaggyman, nor do I care who he is... but I'll take him under the potential that we may see Brother Warth or Kryb later on.

All I know is... going by the negative reactions I've read across Toyark... this is why we can't have nice things.

[Tiberius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

Judging by a lot of comments I've seen as to why the DCUC club is failing comes down to a few factors. Mainly one. I see a *lot* of obstinate fans with a rather disproportionate feeling of self entitlement, and an utterly dumbfounding belief that if this fails, then everything will return to retail as iff nothing had ever happened, and a failing line that loses money for mattel will just continue on.
This very thread was begun with the hopes the club will fail.

Combine this when you look at the differences between DCUC and the other subscriptions.
Ghostbusters and MOTU, the fans of both these lines know there is absolutely zero hope of them ever being released at retail.
DCUC began at retail, and has been there for years.
Being completely honest, Mattel announced that they have plans for a DCUC-like line for retail to take it's place, starring only a and b list characters, at the same time they announced the subscription club which is their solution to give us the c-z list characters, and the BaF level figures.

It looks like a lot of people seem to think that Mattel is bluffing us. Trying to take us for all the money they can, and it even seems some people seem to feel that holding out and trying to insure the subscription service fails, they will become the heroes twarting the villainous Mattel's evil plan. And when they fail, the statis quo will return to normal.
Maybe this is an extreme overexaguration, but this is honestly the vibe I pick up.

Is Mattel's solution perfect? No. But in all honesty, I couldn't come up with any better without it becoming even more expensive. I feel this is probably the best they can do right now.If it gets going, they can refine and tweak it, and give us somethoing better for year two.
Maybe they'll listen to us and ask us what we felt worked and what didn't, and changes we may like to see made.

I know I certainly don't want Starman... I'd never heard of him before this... but I'll take him in order to get Atrocitus, Jay, and Poison Ivy. And the potential we may get Indigo-1, Saint Walker, Ragdoll, and Mia Dearden down the road.
And I've never heard of Shaggyman, nor do I care who he is... but I'll take him under the potential that we may see Brother Warth or Kryb later on.

All I know is... going by the negative reactions I've read across Toyark... this is why we can't have nice things.

That gave me a chuckle =3.

[ToyAddict]

CJ, man I hope you don't mean me! I expect that if the subscription fails, that's the end of the line! And that would be sad! I likes me some DCUC!

If the new line they carry on with goes together like DCSH did going into DCUC, great! DCSH had only Batman and Superman characters packed with comics or dioramas. DCUC expanded to all DC characters with CNC pieces.

Maybe realizing that the price point was going too high for retail, they've sacrificed the CNC piece. Maybe they'll include a figure stand if we're lucky. An alt-head or accessory when appropriate. They usually aren't skimpy on supplying those (though yeah it would have been nice if Martian Manhunter had had all that in one package--they did it for Bronze Tiger here later).

Anyhow, I'm thinking that there's plenty of folks that would be okay with more expensive IF it meant getting figures they want, or even the hope of it. Mattel's stated commitment for Voltron is $290, MOTUC is $510; DCUC "only" $255. Yet it appears they are getting enough business to let those other clubs go forward.

At four waves per year, we've been looking at spending over $400 per year. The Club is actually cheaper!

I guess maybe they chose just a bad assortment of figures to dangle out there as the teasers for the club. Probably almost everyone that would even consider subscribing to the club likes at least one of the figures they've mentioned; possibly even two. Some may like three. Rare for four. I doubt anyone likes all five. Had I liked three, I might have bought in. Four definitely. Then sure, maybe I could have ended up hating the rest of the figures that ended up in the subscription and I wouldn't renew for the next year. They'd have my $255 and that would be it.

Like I said before, if they split it up into sub-families, I'd buy more. If they did a Batman subscription, I'd buy it. If they did a C and D list sub, I'd buy it. If they did a Lantern Corps sub, I wouldn't buy it, but you probably would. So they'd get over $500 out of me each year for multiple years. But as it is now, since I happen to not like more than half of what they've shown, and it's all-or-nothing, looks like for me it's going to be nothing. I'll have to settle for filling in the gaps with DC Direct.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToyAddict

CJ, man I hope you don't mean me! I expect that if the subscription fails, that's the end of the line! And that would be sad! I likes me some DCUC!

oh no! I don't mean you! You said enough times you want it to succeed. Believe you me, this is my favorite line. I do too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

That gave me a chuckle =3.

good!

[ToyAddict]

Yeah, Mattel is saying they are trying hard to get DCUC to continue. They are trying something and I'm grateful for that. It just looks like that particular something is going to not work out. Then I suspect they won't try anything else. There's plenty of other somethings they could try that could make us happy and make them plenty of money at the same time, like. . .

retailer exclusives
internet retailer exclusives
multiple targeted subscriptions
multi-packs on mattycollector
just make the figures and sell them individually on mattycollector (admittedly risky on their part)
see if TRU would carry the line exclusively, even if that means eliminating the CNC to keep the price down

I'd just hate to see them give up if their first attempt fails (which it looks like it will. . .looks like they've hit just over 50% of the subscription goal with two days left).

[Roufuss]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToyAddict

At the very least, if they really wanted to sell this, tell us every figure planned for the subscription. Or throw it wide open to voting. . .they could compile a list of EVERY unmade character that they can make (that their licensing allows for) and put up a poll on mattycollector starting with this: Which characters would you pay $20 for? Choose up to 15. We'll make the top 10 for the Club this year.

Mattel has said multiple times now they cannot release an entire list because they have not finalized all choices with DC. Only the four figures announced from DC got approval -- Mattel probably has figures they want but DC has not given them the ok yet so it severly limits what they can show us.

Same reason why there is no voting other than the oversized figure -- what if the winning figure is something DC won't allow Mattel to make? And DC has only given approval for the four figures released, so a poll is out of the question.

The problem with your suggestions is that right now, the list of every unmade character they can make is Jay Garrick, Starman, Poison Ivy and Atrocitus. DC probably won't talk to them about others until this is a done deal.

Mattel isn't really giving up if the sub doesn't pull through -- chances are, this is the only way they could get these figures made, as the rumor is that DC is dictating what Mattel should do with the license, such as stop putting out obscure characters and focus on the big guns in the reboot settings.

[ToyAddict]

If those are the only four they are allowed to make, then yes my idea is bad.

Previous fan polls had Vixen, Huntress, Ragman, Captain Marvel, Uncle Sam, Libra, Geo-Force, Blockbuster, Girder, King Shark, and Wildebeest as choices (that have yet to be produced or announced as going to be produced). Of course DC could have changed their mind, but these may still be pre-approved as well. I don't know if they are or aren't.

If they're going for big guns, they'll eventually have to go for some of the B-list characters that haven't been produced. I'd put Poison Ivy there, so maybe she'll still be produced. Hopefully Vixen and Huntress too, among many others. That Starman, Atrocitus, and Jay Garrick probably not. But they can find other ways to release them than mass retail or subscription. My main point is I hope they don't give up if the sub fails.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToyAddict

If those are the only four they are allowed to make, then yes my idea is bad.

Previous fan polls had Vixen, Huntress, Ragman, Captain Marvel, Uncle Sam, Libra, Geo-Force, Blockbuster, Girder, King Shark, and Wildebeest as choices (that have yet to be produced or announced as going to be produced). Of course DC could have changed their mind, but these may still be pre-approved as well. I don't know if they are or aren't.

If they're going for big guns, they'll eventually have to go for some of the B-list characters that haven't been produced. I'd put Poison Ivy there, so maybe she'll still be produced. Hopefully Vixen and Huntress too, among many others. That Starman, Atrocitus, and Jay Garrick probably not. But they can find other ways to release them than mass retail or subscription. My main point is I hope they don't give up if the sub fails.

The only reason Vixen isn't D-list or below is because she was Green Lantern's girlfriend in a cartoon that's years out of production. Before or sense, she hasn't really done anything to be on anyone's radar. She's c-list at best, and she'll never show up in any toyline that's focusing on the "big guns." So you're out of luck if you're hoping she'll show up in the DCUC replacement line.
Poison Ivy though, you're correct about. Though you also underestimate Atrocitus' importance. Especially since Green Lantern is the hottest thing DC has going for it right now, and the Red Lanterns are getting their own title in the relaunch (Or so I've heard). The prominence that Blackest Night has been has launched many characters from c and d-list onto the B team. Atrocitus and Mera among them.
The only thing that hurt's Poison Ivy's chances of getting into a future batman line, or a DC line that focuses only on A and B list characters is the fact that she's a girl. Atrocitus I think stands a decent chance at getting recycled somewhere. Jay Garrick... not a chance. I mean, we still don't have a Wally West, after almost a decade.

This is the difficulty when deciding who's an A and B list character and who isn't. Someone who's very important to you may have virtually no meaning to most people. And likewise, someone you may not be able to stand (Wolverine in my case) is absolutely frakkin' everyone's favorite and *is* an A list character dispite how totally aweful they are.
Even Fans and the companies tend no to agree on who's A or B list. We think Wally's A list, but Mattel obviously doesn't since Barry's the one with 4 releases already, another one to finish off DCUC, and definately more to come post relaunch.