[Tony_Bacala]

Marvel Legends Spider-Man Across The Spider-Verse Official Images

[Zigerlion]

Cyborg Spider WOMAN? What? Either way, at $60, it's a pass. A confused pass. The rest of the wave is a pretty easy pass too. I'm only interested in the 2099 fig but I'll probably hold out for a Figuarts or Sentinel version with more accessories.

[Cyclopswc]

Looks like originally it was supposed to be a wave with a Cyborg Spider-Woman BAF. Then Hasbro decided to charge the regular $25, but take out the BAF and make it a $59 deluxe figure.

Just as well, without the BAF, I'll just get the Miles and Gwen and be done!

[bdub86]

I'll definitely get Miles and Jessica. I might get Spot because he might be an interesting option than the basic one we'd get from a main ML wave.

2099 is ALMOST ALMOST tempting, because I've wanted a bulkier version in that costume from the beginning, but it just doesn't fit.

[Black Arbor]

Weird how this is the second Peter Parker from the Spider-Verse movies they've made and it's still not his standard suited-up look...

[ghostbogey]

Pretty Nice..
"Verse" Stuff ;^)

[Joesjunk]

I hadn’t even thought about the fact sentinel or figuarts could make a version! Now that’s something I’d really like as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zigerlion

Cyborg Spider WOMAN? What? Either way, at $60, it's a pass. A confused pass. The rest of the wave is a pretty easy pass too. I'm only interested in the 2099 fig but I'll probably hold out for a Figuarts or Sentinel version with more accessories.

[deecee4]

Yeah, cyborg spider-woman...I dont get it. Interesting looking though...seems like a WH40k mashup with that Larsen cyborg Spidey design, sure ok.
Also digging Spot,2099 and Gwen.

[Boogieman4hire]

Spot has one of the most awkward body shapes I've ever seen on an action figure but I kind of dig it. He looks like not-so-Slenderman. He looks like the Pale Man from Pan's Labyrinth if he ate well.

[mangkanorxxv]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Arbor

Weird how this is the second Peter Parker from the Spider-Verse movies they've made and it's still not his standard suited-up look...

I wonder why.

[Yeah So]

I’ve got the SV 1 Sentinel Miles plus Gwen on order which are mostly the same, and the rest all look rubbish *except* for Spider-Punk, who looks ace but again, I’m happy to wait a few years and get a Sentinel version instead.

[Zigerlion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee4

Yeah, cyborg spider-woman...I dont get it. Interesting looking though...seems like a WH40k mashup with that Larsen cyborg Spidey design, sure ok.
Also digging Spot,2099 and Gwen.

I was thinking that McFarlane got his hands on this wave somehow and made it "Metal".

[ddarko]

Is the Spider-"woman" one a typo or something? That looks like a buff man unless she lost her.... um... entire body and only had male cyborg parts to replace it with

[Black Arbor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

Is the Spider-"woman" one a typo or something? That looks like a buff man unless she lost her.... um... entire body and only had male cyborg parts to replace it with

Hey now! It's 2023, stop using things like "your eyes" and "common sense" you BIGOT!

[RamenRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Arbor

Hey now! It's 2023, stop using things like "your eyes" and "common sense" you BIGOT!

Exactly! If she doesn’t have huge visible cleavage and an hourglass shape she can't be a woman. So obvious.

How dare the people behind an animated superhero movie with crazy, stylized designs make a comically brutish female character? It's almost as they're trying something fun here.

We can't allow that!

[ddarko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamenRider

Exactly! If she doesn’t have huge visible cleavage and an hourglass shape she can't be a woman. So obvious.

How dare the people behind an animated superhero movie with crazy, stylized designs make a comically brutish female character? It's almost as they're trying something fun here.

We can't allow that!

Ahh, I see. This is a gag character to make fun of. That makes perfect sense. Reminds me of the grown men characters who show up in anime as a “magical girl”, claiming to be one. It’s cringe to the point of drawing some laughs. Anyway, I wasn’t familiar with the movie, so assumed it did not go for such eccentric comedy. Plus, being a fan of Spider-woman (the Jessica Drew) back in the day, this looks like an abomination.

[RamenRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

Ahh, I see. This is a gag character to make fun of.

Kind of, the gag will probably be the faces of the other characters around once she starts speaking or something.

I certainly would't dare make fun of her though, I want to live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

Anyway, I wasn’t familiar with the movie, so assumed it did not go for such eccentric comedy.

The first movie had, among other things, a talking spider pig operating on Looney Tunes-logic, a Kaiju Green Goblin and a main villain with the physical build of an entire IKEA outlet.

This series definitely doesn't take itself too seriously, and that's great.

[ddarko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamenRider

Kind of, the gag will probably be the faces of the other characters around once she starts speaking or something.

I certainly would't dare make fun of her though, I want to live.

The first movie had, among other things, a talking spider pig operating on Looney Tunes-logic, a Kaiju Green Goblin and a main villain with the physical build of an entire IKEA outlet.

This series definitely doesn't take itself too seriously, and that's great.

Usually the gag part of such a trope is the fact that the character is actually a guy though. Are you saying that this is ACTUALLY a woman though? If so, then I think it’s just bad design.

Note, this is also different from a talking Spider pig or an IKEA size villain. This is more like saying the Spider-Man 2099 here is Spider Gwen. It doesn’t work since she is a woman and 2099 shown here is a masculine design.

Anyway, I feel like these movies are running out of ideas if they are reaching to this sort of bizarre level to create comedy. Why not just include the Spider-Woman people know and recognize instead? This kind of “fun” is on the level of a fart joke.

[RamenRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

Are you saying that this is ACTUALLY a woman though? If so, then I think it’s just bad design.

Yes, and I disagree, this design is pretty great. Love the Mad Max-style with the chain spider over the chest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

It doesn’t work since she is a woman and 2099 shown here is a masculine design.

And women with masculine designs don’t work because?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

Anyway, I feel like these movies are running out of ideas if they are reaching to this sort of bizarre level to create comedy.

If it even is comedy. I just said its fun. Because a hulking, large, post-apocalyptic musclebound Cyborg Spider Woman sounds cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

Why not just include the Spider-Woman people know and recognize instead?

Why not have something new for a change? Both options sound good. I can have a good time seeing characters I recognize; I can have a good time learning about new ones.

In this case I get new ones so let’s go.

[ddarko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamenRider

Yes, and I disagree, this design is pretty great. Love the Mad Max-style with the chain spider over the chest.

And women with masculine designs don’t work because?

If it even is comedy. I just said its fun. Because a hulking, large, post-apocalyptic musclebound Cyborg Spider Woman sounds cool.

Why not have something new for a change? Both options sound good. I can have a good time seeing characters I recognize; I can have a good time learning about new ones.

In this case I get new ones so let’s go.

I do not know if you are serious, but assuming you are, let me attempt to explain.

You ask what is wrong with making a woman with a masculine design. It does not work since it is no different than drawing a human being as a pig and saying that is a human being. Sure, I can take pity on such a drawing as the work of someone who is incompetent at drawing. But, it would be more sensible to call their drawing an orc or a pig-person than a human being. Similarly, you cannot design an actual female character to look like a man and call that a great design. It would be better to simply call that new character a man at that point.

As for your question on why not create something new for a change, the issue is that nothing new is actually created. What is done is to take the existing design of a comic book man and label it as a woman. That is not new. It is just absurd.

Finally, on good vs. bad design, saying something is a good design is admittedly subjective for many who have not looked at the matter technically. However, leaving that aside, even a child can identify a poor design. This Spider-Woman is definitely a poor design. To explain why, consider an image of Batman by Jim Lee or just Spider Gwen shown here. Even if someone had zero knowledge of comics, no one would confuse Batman with being a woman or Spider-Gwen as being a man. This is because the image conveys very clearly as to who is a man and who is a woman. Even the most basic design principle is that ones design must convey such basic information by itself.

Thus, this Spider-Woman design is BAD because the only thing making it Spider-"Woman" is the label on the box! All the visual cues point to it being a man. Therefore, it is a terrible design. Only way it becomes even a remotely decent design is if it was actually a man who wants to be Spider-Woman like the gag male characters in anime or manga who dress up as magical girls. So the reason why I asked whether you were serious at the start of my comment is because you actually said this is a "pretty great" design.

Anyway, if you are still convinced that this is a great design, I can add nothing more. So we will just have to agree to disagree.

[firmpulse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

I do not know if you are serious, but assuming you are, let me attempt to explain.

You ask what is wrong with making a woman with a masculine design. It does not work since it is no different than drawing a human being as a pig and saying that is a human being. Sure, I can take pity on such a drawing as the work of someone who is incompetent at drawing. But, it would be more sensible to call their drawing an orc or a pig-person than a human being. Similarly, you cannot design an actual female character to look like a man and call that a great design. It would be better to simply call that new character a man at that point.

As for your question on why not create something new for a change, the issue is that nothing new is actually created. What is done is to take the existing design of a comic book man and label it as a woman. That is not new. It is just absurd.

Finally, on good vs. bad design, saying something is a good design is admittedly subjective for many who have not looked at the matter technically. However, leaving that aside, even a child can identify a poor design. This Spider-Woman is definitely a poor design. To explain why, consider an image of Batman by Jim Lee or just Spider Gwen shown here. Even if someone had zero knowledge of comics, no one would confuse Batman with being a woman or Spider-Gwen as being a man. This is because the image conveys very clearly as to who is a man and who is a woman. Even the most basic design principle is that ones design must convey such basic information by itself.

Thus, this Spider-Woman design is BAD because the only thing making it Spider-"Woman" is the label on the box! All the visual cues point to it being a man. Therefore, it is a terrible design. Only way it becomes even a remotely decent design is if it was actually a man who wants to be Spider-Woman like the gag male characters in anime or manga who dress up as magical girls. So the reason why I asked whether you were serious at the start of my comment is because you actually said this is a "pretty great" design.

Anyway, if you are still convinced that this is a great design, I can add nothing more. So we will just have to agree to disagree.

Fantastic post. I applaud you, sir.

[lordbest]

Opinion is subjective. If you don't like it fine but that doesn't make it terrible. I think it's fantastic. I'm not going to buy it because I'm trying to limit myself to comic characters, but I genuinely love the design regardless of the gender.

[RamenRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

I do not know if you are serious, but assuming you are, let me attempt to explain.

Oh we’re serious? I didn’t think we need to, given the topic, but why not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

You ask what is wrong with making a woman with a masculine design. It does not work since it is no different than drawing a human being as a pig and saying that is a human being. Sure, I can take pity on such a drawing as the work of someone who is incompetent at drawing. But, it would be more sensible to call their drawing an orc or a pig-person than a human being. Similarly, you cannot design an actual female character to look like a man and call that a great design. It would be better to simply call that new character a man at that point.

That is a very lacking and uneducated point. You bring up an example that has effectively been proven wrong: You can design a human being as a pig and say that is a human being, with great effect even.

The 1992 animated movie “Porco Rosso” (Full stop, spoilers incoming. Watch the movie first, it’s on Netflix, and its really good), literal translated name “Crimson Pig” of the famous animation house “Studio Ghibli” tells the tale of an ace fighter pilot that has the appearance of a humanoid pig, even though no humanoid pigs exist, and no one makes any remarks about his strange appearance, they only call him a pig. That is because he is a traitor of the army, labeled a pig, thus the movie portrays him as such, even though he doesn’t actually look like a pig in his own world. Only the viewer sees him as such.

A nonsensical appearance can, rooted in imagery and meaning, portray a story without actually telling it outright and is thus a creative way to entertain the viewer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

As for your question on why not create something new for a change, the issue is that nothing new is actually created. What is done is to take the existing design of a comic book man and label it as a woman. That is not new. It is just absurd.

I will accept your argument should you find this very same design used for a man. Since I’m sure you cannot, this is effectively a new design by definition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

Finally, on good vs. bad design, saying something is a good design is admittedly subjective for many who have not looked at the matter technically. However, leaving that aside, even a child can identify a poor design. This Spider-Woman is definitely a poor design. To explain why, consider an image of Batman by Jim Lee or just Spider Gwen shown here. Even if someone had zero knowledge of comics, no one would confuse Batman with being a woman or Spider-Gwen as being a man. This is because the image conveys very clearly as to who is a man and who is a woman. Even the most basic design principle is that ones design must convey such basic information by itself.

I fail to understand why not being able to tell the gender of a character makes for a bad design. People were unable to tell if Samus Aran, for example, was male or female at first, given her suit of armor. So was this armor a bad design? Most certainly not.

A good design can tell many things, it can also hide many things. No one needs to be able to deduce a characters identity at first glance for a design to be good.

[ddarko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamenRider

The 1992 animated movie “Porco Rosso” (Full stop, spoilers incoming. Watch the movie first, it’s on Netflix, and its really good), literal translated name “Crimson Pig” of the famous animation house “Studio Ghibli” tells the tale of an ace fighter pilot that has the appearance of a humanoid pig, even though no humanoid pigs exist, and no one makes any remarks about his strange appearance, they only call him a pig. That is because he is a traitor of the army, labeled a pig, thus the movie portrays him as such, even though he doesn’t actually look like a pig in his own world. Only the viewer sees him as such.

In the movie you describe, Porco curses himself, and that is why he appears as a pig as a result of the curse. I see no comparison whatsoever with that situation to what we have here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RamenRider

I fail to understand why not being able to tell the gender of a character makes for a bad design. People were unable to tell if Samus Aran, for example, was male or female at first, given her suit of armor. So was this armor a bad design? Most certainly not.

A good design can tell many things, it can also hide many things. No one needs to be able to deduce a characters identity at first glance for a design to be good.

Now you are attacking a straw man though. The point is not that you should always be able to tell whether the character is a male or female. Obviously, like in the case where Samus is wearing armour, we do not know who is inside the suit. Such a thing is OK because you do NOT have ANY VISUAL cues to determine either way.

In contrast, this Spider-“woman” is bad design because it CONVEYS the OPPOSITE of what the character is supposed to be i.e., have the character display all the cues of a comic book man when it is supposed to be a woman. That is why you have to add that label saying “Spider-“woman”” or any sane person would think it’s a “Spider-man”.

To draw an analogy from your “crimson pig” example, this “Spider-Woman” is like having Porco look like a human and say in the label that he is actually pig. Such a thing would be a bad design!

If you really want to make this work, one way is to say that Spider-Woman lost almost all of her body in a fight and had to replace it with male cyborg parts. Then the design would rightfully try to make her look like a man to service the story. However, such a story is so contrived that then one has to wonder if the writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[firmpulse]

Jesus. I can't believe this discussion has gone on as long as it has.

Cyborg "Spiderwoman"'s name is stupid. It looks like a big buff freakin DUDE. In no way does it even slightly resemble a "woman" (Again. Cannot believe this even needs to be explained. Second thought. Yeah. I can.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

If you really want to make this work, one way is to say that Spider-Woman lost almost all of her body in a fight and had to replace it with male cyborg parts. Then the design would rightfully try to make her look like a man to service the story. However, such a story is so contrived that then one has to wonder if the writers are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Watch. That's probably EXACTLY what happens in the film.