[ludovicotek]

Nikke Finke over at deadline.com posted an exclusive story concerning the troubles with the Spider-Man 4 production.

Basically, Raimi and Sony are not agreeing on the direction the next movie should take. Raimi wants the Vulture to be the villain, and he supposedly wants John Malkovich to play him. Sony apparently doesn't want the Vulture as the villain at all. It is now highly unlikely SM4 will be released on May 5, 2011 as originally planned. Finke goes into much greater detail so I would suggest reading the article if you're interested.

There have countless rumors concerning who the villain will be for SM4. The Lizard, Morbius and Black Cat are some of the characters mentioned.

Also, it appears Sony is now wanting to make SM4 in 3D. More so now after the runaway success of Avatar, which got a nice chunk of it's profits from 3D screenings.

I personally would love to see the Lizard as the main villain. Especially since Dr. Connors has appeared in the last two films. But I'm down for whatever Raimi has in mind. I totally trust him and hope the studio will let him have his way.

What do you all think? Who do you want to see in SM4?

[sabretoothe]

i in all honesty do not another raimi spiderman, the last movie really killed any interest in spiderman movies and spiderman in general. As far as villians The vulture doesn't even reach the top 20 of spiderman villains i would want to see let alone have him be the star of the show. i think a reboot of spiderman would be best, new cast, new crew the whole thing because i don't think that as is stands another spiderman would do anywhere near as good a job as say iron man or the hulk has done.

[MegaPrime33]

It will be extremely hard to recover from spidey 3 and I'm not confident that they can pull it off. If sony is insisting on doing another spiderman, then a reboot probably would have been best. It's hard to imagine that no one in that company hasn't heard of any fan backlash from spidey 3, so why they think the same cast and crew can do better is beyond me.

[ludovicotek]

@ sabretoothe and MegaPrime33

The reason that SM3 turned out the way it did is because the studio demanded that Raimi include things that he didn't want to. Venom, which Raimi didn't want to use, was forced by the studio.

You guys have to admit that SM1 and 2 were great. Once the franchise got really huge the studio felt like they needed to include their input, and we all know what happens when too many cooks are in the kitchen.

I believe Raimi did a fantastic job with the first two films and he understands the characters and their world. I hope it works out in his favor.

[Snowflakian]

I'd honestly rather have black cat, and the spidey mob stuff. At least then we can start filtering in tombstone, mysterio, and the tinkerer, maybe even chameleon. Though Vulture could work too, it'd still need some of the crime bosses like silvermane and so on to play off of. Lizard I'd dig too, but I'd prefer a black cat focused movie first, then him for the reason below.

This way they could build to neo-genic nightmare as a movie with the lizard and black cat so they can do man-spider to fix the only problem in spider-man 2, which was his entire schtick of his powers fading cause of his will was. Rather would prefer they do manspider, and say that was just peter's rationalization for his further mutation at the time. We'd need a setup movie with black cat prior to this though, along with a movie to start to insinuate genetic mutations to help build up for the lizard better than brief cameos.

Carnage is off the table for now, but he's possible later after the venom spin-off film. Especially since SM 3 sets him up with Connors' lab.

Basicly, I'd like to see
SM 4 - Black cat (Because petey needs a helper for later, and punisher among others are off the table now), Mob Families, maybe vulture/mysterio/Chameleon/Tinkerer. A Silver Sable cameo would be neat too, but could be saved best for later maybe. Maybe end the film with Silver Sable at a beach reflecting over what her family's done, to have a whirlwind of sand start happening, fade to credits. That way if they choose, they could do a sable sandman thing later. Or at least suggest they're working together to redeem themselves.

SM 5 - Electro Lizard and Man-Spider (the reason we need black cat, to get petey back to normal) Petey has to save doc connor's with a gene cleanser, basic tragic villian story, with a twist, once he saves connor's he starts turning into man-spider. Or the cleanser was to stop him from becoming man-spider, and he had to use it on Connor's instead. 6armed spidey, and black cat and doc connor's have to save him, after Spidey, sacrifices his chance at humanity to save connor's. The electro bit will just be the set-up for the lizard. Maybe a half hour at most with electro since he doesn't know his powers fully yet. So just a way to start the film with a bang, covering electro's quick origin, and then incarceration.

SM 6 - Sinister 6 (Mob Families Retribution, using shocker, Rhino, Electro, Vulture, and whoever else can by scrounged up for it. Basicly tying off some more loose threads of the mob family, and the villians.)

SM 7 - Seperation Anxiety/Maximum Carnage, or Planet of the Symbiotes. (Wrap up the loose plot threads of venom, carnage, and their origin. Still leaving eddie around yet again, for his own Movie series.)

SM 8 - The Jackal and the clone saga. To help set up for a very confusing 9. Also features the return of Norman Osborn.

SM 9 - Either the death of gwen stacy, or the trial of peter parker with Kaine, and all that stuff, at this point I've run out of ideas and spidey storylines short of his marriage to MJ, or Spider-cide and the other clones.


There's no need to reboot anytime soon, they've got plenty of ground still to cover, and as much of a mess Spidey 3 was, it has some nice outlying plot points for later. Add in the venom spin-off and spidey 3 is just a setup movie. So of course it's bad, it's just a setup movie for the others. Raimi can't really be held responsible since he was forced to use venom for it. Kinda like what's happening here now, he's being forced again to use someone different than what he wants to do, which may end up making it be spidey 3 all over again. Now if they'd just leave him alone, he'd pump out spidey 1 and 2's over and over. Which would be fine, if he stops killing off all the villians so we can have a sinister 6 movie at movie 6.

Everyone loves to scream reboot, but as I said about the deadpool movie even, only a lazy writer reboots, when they can just rework the history they've got already there.
It takes creativity, but heck, that's what writers are paid for! Look at Doctor Who for example, the writers on that have masterfully interwoven the episodes into a massive story, while still being self contained fun. Same could be said to JLU, among other toons and tv shows. So why can't movies show this kind of forethought? Spidey just needs some tweaking to rework what's gone wrong. Not a complete overhaul. Since they spared venom's fate in the 3rd movie, his spin-off could potentially help fill this gap as well.

I tend to feel the same about fantastic four though, no need for a reboot, just fill the problem gaps, and start afresh with Atlantis and namor. Sue and Reed are married now. Everything else is in the past, and we have the fantasticar now. Why reboot when we've just now gotten to where it can become good?

Even the silver Surfer prequel would have fixed galactus until they canned it all.

The fact of the matter is though, SM 3 as bad as it was didn't bomb at the box office. They don't make these movies for the die-hard fans, they try to make them appealing to all audiences, while still keeping the fans moderately happy. SM3 was a confusing mess in that regard though, and probably won't be repeated. Which is sad, because barring the botched ending battle, and rushed character interaction, it was more comic accurate than the previous 2.

Which to CEO's will mean comic accuracy is at fault, instead of just rushed character development, and interactions. Eddie for example would have been better to be cameo'ed in movie 2, to build for 3. Instead of shoving him all in one movie. Heck to be honest, he's who they should have saved for 4. And let 3 end after the sand-man bit. The fan demand, Sony, and marvel all insisted on venom for 3 though. Sony so they could use it to launch the venom spin-off movie, and the others because, well, the fans wanted it.

[jimster2010]

I really want to see The Rhino and Lizard get the big screen treatment. Or better yet Kraven the Hunter.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimster2010

I really want to see The Rhino and Lizard get the big screen treatment. Or better yet Kraven the Hunter.

Hmm that's a thought.

Do SM 4 as black cat, mob stuff, with then vulture/mysterio/chameleon or tinkerer. Mob related baddies only here. As mentioned before. But end on it creating the rhino (just him activating, or whatnot, and only an outline or his face with the horn shadows, something to really make people go wha? for 5 and throw them off balance...) or kraven coming to town as a nod to 5 and fans. With the mob involved, we also can use Black Cat as their first attempt at 'super powers'. Which she wants to keep up with spidey as the comics went, only moving away from kingpin towards Silvermane and Tombstone.

Then SM 5, Neogenic nightmare, do as Lizard, Kraven (the ultimate hunt!) Man-spider, and black cat. Kraven's tossed in to offset the tragic villian aspect to give people a villian they can hate for beating up spidey, and he could be there to hunt spider-man or the lizard, or even both. I'd still also keep the electro first bit though to build for later and this could also highlight the black cat spider-man partnership, developed in 4 to show how well they can fight together now (One upping SM4 essentially). Man-Spider with kraven would just be perfect, as it'd give him that fear induced drive to perpetually want to hunt the beast, to go toe to toe, and maybe even find ways to enhance himself to compete with spidey's 'perceived' level. All stuff to explore at a later time though, when someone like the Jackal is involved, or other geneticist bad guys. Potentially working for the mob to create a team to stop spidey...

Then SM 6 'Sinister 6' with shocker, Rhino, Electro, Kraven(if he survives), Vulture (if he survives), and mysterio(Bruce the man Cambell). This way, using mysterio, they can really play with the fans and audience too, having doc ock tentacles, goblin bombs, and gliders, and more (even a venom in suit cameo since holograms are harmless, and don't register on his spidey sense, but neither would venom) to really throw the curveballs at them on what to expect to have it revealed to be Mysterio at the top of the sinister 6 or something. Here I'd also toss in the Jackal's secret identity, to build him up as a villian later. Maybe even give him a sample of spider-man's DNA, after the sinister 6 fail. This could open up more doors for any later on movies.

First 3 movies, the Goblin Arc and spidey origins.
Second 3 movies, Mafia arc, and Spidey Mutations.
Third 3 movie arc, The curse of spider-man. Go all horror, Morbius, Symbiotes, and more. Really build the universe to go out with a bang and cover a lot of bases and open room to really explore the character interactions to make it easier to write any characters out that's needed to for lack of their actor resigning. From the evils of science and gene splicing learned in the lizard movie and cloning technology from SM 6, to trying to analyze venom, and creating carnage and then other symbiote baddies among more! Pretty much all story doors would be open now for raimi to really cut loose and have some fun and flair with a variety of 'creatures'.

[F1sh1000]

I gotta agree with the guys above, I have little interest in another Spider-Man movie. Vulture & Black Cat and the others that have been mentioned are just not interesting characters in my oppinion and Spider-Man 3 was such a soap that honestly I dont care if they even make another lol.

[IcantBseriouS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ludovicotek

@ sabretoothe and MegaPrime33

The reason that SM3 turned out the way it did is because the studio demanded that Raimi include things that he didn't want to. Venom, which Raimi didn't want to use, was forced by the studio.

You guys have to admit that SM1 and 2 were great. Once the franchise got really huge the studio felt like they needed to include their input, and we all know what happens when too many cooks are in the kitchen.

I believe Raimi did a fantastic job with the first two films and he understands the characters and their world. I hope it works out in his favor.

Well said. I also didn't want venom in the movie. To do venom right it would have taken 3 or 4 films itself. Anyway I'd rather have the Lizard. they've only been building that up for the last 3 films. IMO I think they should stick to the classic villians, Green Goblin, Doc Oc, Shocker, Lizard, Vulture, Sandman, Hydroman and Rhino.

[STLHBKid]

I seen an image of Russell Crow playing the role of KRAVEN! True it may just be someone f'n around with photoshop, but it looks amazing... I think Russel Crow could pull off an amazing KRAVEN!

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2007/JuanDiaz.jpg

[ludovicotek]

^
Holy crap! That's awesome! I could totally see him pulling off that role.

[GearsFreak86]

As long as there is no Lame Emo Peter and dancing the fourth one will be 1000 times better than 3

[TheSymbiote]

if they need to cram as much villans as possible in sm4 i would pick kraven and the lizard,but im sick of them killing off all of them.Can anyone name a spiderman villan thats stayed dead?

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSymbiote

if they need to cram as much villans as possible in sm4 i would pick kraven and the lizard,but im sick of them killing off all of them.Can anyone name a spiderman villan thats stayed dead?

The Jackal.
The clone saga in comics pretty much ended his supervillian career permanently... So far at least.

The only thing to keep in mind really for SM4, is they are toning it back to not repeat the mistakes of 3.

So this means probably only one true costumed villian in 4, and potentially, a partner in heroics. 4 costumed characters won't be repeated till later if it can be done at all. Which tbh, doesn't seem so since Raimi's idea of audience resolution is offing the villians.

SM 3 I'll cut slack once the venom spin off happens, but until then I'm just kinda meh on it myself.

Raimi originally wanted the vulture in 3, so I could see why he wants him in 4. Considering all the other rumors, it may not be a bad idea either. Raimi's also said in the past though, that he builds the story around the characters, and then places in the villians he thinks would best accentuate what's needed. After the debacle of 3 though, we'll probably get a return to the formula of movie 1 with a splash of relationship antagonism caused by black cat.

Both the lizard and mysterio have had mentions in every movie. So either or is very easily usable at any time.

[ludovicotek]

Snowflakian, where are the mentions to Mysterio in the previous movies? I was never aware of that.

I do kind of remember thinking, the first time I watched part 1, that the bald guy testing out Osborn's glider in the lab was reminiscent of the Vulture. I thought that the technology could easily be adapted to fit the Vulture's needs.

[IcantBseriouS]

I read somewhere that bruce cambell will play mysterio. and all of his other apperances where characters that mysterios does. prob just a rumor though.

[ludovicotek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcantBseriouS

I read somewhere that bruce cambell will play mysterio. and all of his other apperances where characters that mysterios does. prob just a rumor though.

I actually read the same thing, but I believe that was just speculation and rumor.

[jimster2010]

That rumor was started when Spiderman 3 was announced to begin filming and it is nice to see it alive and well but the Bruce Campbell as Mysterio thing should be taken with a grain of salt. Though he would have made a great Kraven, too bad Raimi only used him for bit parts.

[MegaPrime33]

Looks like it's officially canceled, and now Sony wants to reboot the franchise.
Sony Rebooting Spider-Man in 2012! - Superhero Hype!

[jimster2010]

No more Raimi or Maguire. I have 1 question is it just me or does 4 years after the last movie seem too soon to do a reboot of a franchise

[Tarquinius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimster2010

No more Raimi or Maguire. I have 1 question is it just me or does 4 years aaafter the last movie seem too soon to do a reboot of a franchise

Heh they are pulling a Hulk on us....

[Evantainment]

I think it's too soon for a reboot, but that being said, it may be a good decision.

[jimster2010]

I did some digging around and it seems Sony and Raimi could not agree on the Vulture being in this movie. Raimi originally wanted him to be the main villain in Spiderman 3 but Sony insisted on Venom instead. So naturally Raimi wanted to get his wish and make the Vulture the villain for Spiderman 4. It seems Black Cat and Vulture were going to be the villains not Mysterio or Lizard

[STLHBKid]

That news SUCKS! SUCKS RAT MILK!

[Evantainment]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimster2010

I did some digging around and it seems Sony and Raimi could not agree on the Vulture being in this movie. Raimi originally wanted him to be the main villain in Spiderman 3 but Sony insisted on Venom instead. So naturally Raimi wanted to get his wish and make the Vulture the villain for Spiderman 4. It seems Black Cat and Vulture were going to be the villains not Mysterio or Lizard

I remember reading that Sir Ben Kingsley had been cast as Vulture for Spider-Man 3 - before Venom became the main villain anyway (and if it was true). I was hoping he'd be back for Vulture it Spidey 4, but I guess not.