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05-08-2012, 03:40 AM | #101 |
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His old self maybe. But if you've been following his recent character development from schism through the recent and wonderful wolverine and the X-men 1-9 his willingness to kill a kid, regardless of how bad the threat is completely out of his current character.
Still don't believe me? Then I offer you this comic fact: Wolverine couldn't even kill the Child Apocalypse because he thought maybe he could be raised to be good. FRIGGIN Apocalypse! So Fantomex took care of business even though he found a way around it (cloned child apocalypse) and now kid apocalypse is part of Logan's new school in spite of a precognition (or memory) from deathlok that shows him still become evil Apocalypse. So he'll trust a would be apocalypse but kill the only kid who could probably control the Phoenix somehow? sorry, that's completely out of character, Marvel. I just got through reading the prequel to and the story for Schism and I totally agree. In Schism we saw Cyclops as a general type willing to lay down the lives of anyone to preserve his race. Wolvie was the 'reasoning' figure in that story and took the humanity side of the war. Now that being said I think Wolvie willing to destroy Hope to save the world is actually perfect. He realizes, and has been mentally preparing for (what now 20 years our time) the return of the Phoenix and he knows he's the only one that can destroy her thanks to his healing factor. He hates the Phoenix. It took away someone he truly loved. So if it comes down to killing a teenager he's purposely not come attached to I say it works perfectly. |
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05-08-2012, 06:18 AM | #102 |
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05-08-2012, 06:56 AM | #103 |
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I just got through reading the prequel to and the story for Schism and I totally agree. In Schism we saw Cyclops as a general type willing to lay down the lives of anyone to preserve his race. Wolvie was the 'reasoning' figure in that story and took the humanity side of the war.
Now that being said I think Wolvie willing to destroy Hope to save the world is actually perfect. He realizes, and has been mentally preparing for (what now 20 years our time) the return of the Phoenix and he knows he's the only one that can destroy her thanks to his healing factor. He hates the Phoenix. It took away someone he truly loved. So if it comes down to killing a teenager he's purposely not come attached to I say it works perfectly. ...You know what I don't understand? The Phoenix force is destroying planet after planet on its way to Earth...without Hope Summers or any other host support. What's to stop it from destroying Earth if it doesn't get its host? Hope said it best during Uncanny X-Men #11 when she said, (about wolverine) "we agreed that if it all went bad, he should kill me. I told him to be sure. But it hasn't gone bad. Why doesn't anybody trust me?" And she's right in that context. In the old Dark Phoenix saga Jean was already possessed by the force when she was taken out. Wolverine is jumping the gun big time. He wouldn't even let Blade kill his beloved Jubilee after she became a Vampire (nor would he even entertain the thought of taking Blade's advice to kill her himself). Granted that's not as threatening as a Phoenix it just goes to show how selective in who he's willing to kill and for what reason he is being written. And I'm sorry but if you gave kid apocalypse a chance you can't tell me you don't give Hope the benefit of the doubt when the Phoenix force is already destroying everything in its path without her. Jean kept it in check long enough to allow herself to be taken out to stop the Phoenix (disintegrated herself by detonating some weapon while on the moon from what i remember). Seems to be the only thing that works. Not to mention that during Morrison's run, Wolverine and Jean were flung jnto the sun, wolverine killed Jean to save her feom suffering...guess what happened? It fully activated her Phoenix Force and ressurected her. It took an electromagnetic pulse from Magneto to kill her. Nice job forgetting that part Logan, after 20 some yrs of mental preparation Now I don't want people to assume this means I'm not enjoying the event, I just wanted to acknowledge that while this maybe the equivalent of a typical summer popcorn flick it sucks to see the characters taken out of character from the development seen in their solo or team books just for the sake of the event.
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Last edited by Greenskar; 05-08-2012 at 08:27 AM.. |
05-08-2012, 09:00 AM | #104 |
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I still feel he's feeling no remorse because it's the Phoenix that ultimately killed Jean. Jubilee didn't kill a woman he loved.
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05-08-2012, 09:17 AM | #105 |
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Actually, if Hope really is the true host of the Phoenix, Wolverine can't kill her (more on that later)...
...You know what I don't understand? The Phoenix force is destroying planet after planet on its way to Earth...without Hope Summers or any other host support. What's to stop it from destroying Earth if it doesn't get its host? Hope said it best during Uncanny X-Men #11 when she said, (about wolverine) "we agreed that if it all went bad, he should kill me. I told him to be sure. But it hasn't gone bad. Why doesn't anybody trust me?" And she's right in that context. In the old Dark Phoenix saga Jean was already possessed by the force when she was taken out. Wolverine is jumping the gun big time. He wouldn't even let Blade kill his beloved Jubilee after she became a Vampire (nor would he even entertain the thought of taking Blade's advice to kill her himself). Granted that's not as threatening as a Phoenix it just goes to show how selective in who he's willing to kill and for what reason he is being written. And I'm sorry but if you gave kid apocalypse a chance you can't tell me you don't give Hope the benefit of the doubt when the Phoenix force is already destroying everything in its path without her. Jean kept it in check long enough to allow herself to be taken out to stop the Phoenix (disintegrated herself by detonating some weapon while on the moon from what i remember). Seems to be the only thing that works. Not to mention that during Morrison's run, Wolverine and Jean were flung jnto the sun, wolverine killed Jean to save her feom suffering...guess what happened? It fully activated her Phoenix Force and ressurected her. It took an electromagnetic pulse from Magneto to kill her. Nice job forgetting that part Logan, after 20 some yrs of mental preparation Now I don't want people to assume this means I'm not enjoying the event, I just wanted to acknowledge that while this maybe the equivalent of a typical summer popcorn flick it sucks to see the characters taken out of character from the development seen in their solo or team books just for the sake of the event. And I think the problem is that Wolverine's an established enough character that writers can fall back on outdated characterizations and most of us don't even know the difference. As much as I love the current X-force, it was strange that Wolvie was doing all that while chastizing Cyke for having a similar philosophy. I guess the difference was that Cyke was forcing the kids into it, and he was only taking the willing? I kinda lost hope for this event when ***SPOILERS**** Cap decided the only way to discipline Wolverine was to jump him and throw him out of a plane, not like anyone had been acting rationally uptil then anyway.... |
05-08-2012, 09:40 AM | #106 |
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My point is they're making wolverine tactless in this event. Killing hope before the Phoenix gets there is obviously not the best option when the Phoenix can still destroy your planet anyway. Avengers have the right idea if moving the host away from earth is in fact their plan.
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Last edited by Greenskar; 05-08-2012 at 09:51 AM.. |
05-08-2012, 09:42 AM | #107 |
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I think the idea is that the Avengers want to take her off earth because (ideally) the pheonix force would change course to follow her.
And I think the problem is that Wolverine's an established enough character that writers can fall back on outdated characterizations and most of us don't even know the difference. As much as I love the current X-force, it was strange that Wolvie was doing all that while chastizing Cyke for having a similar philosophy. I guess the difference was that Cyke was forcing the kids into it, and he was only taking the willing? I kinda lost hope for this event when ***SPOILERS**** Cap decided the only way to discipline Wolverine was to jump him and throw him out of a plane, not like anyone had been acting rationally uptil then anyway....
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Last edited by Greenskar; 05-08-2012 at 09:49 AM.. |
05-08-2012, 10:08 AM | #108 |
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As for Wolvy killing Hope I hit up Marvel.com and well here's kind of a spoiler. Avengers VS X-Men (2012) #4 | Comic Books | Comics | Marvel.com |
05-08-2012, 10:18 AM | #109 |
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Dude do you know how many women Wolverine has loved over the years? Sabertooth has scarred wolverine more than the Phoenix ever has.
My point is they're making wolverine tactless in this event. Killing hope before the Phoenix gets there is obviously not the best option when the Phoenix can still destroy your planet anyway. Avengers have the right idea if moving the host away from earth is in fact their plan. |
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05-08-2012, 10:21 AM | #110 |
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05-08-2012, 10:21 AM | #111 |
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Both have nothing relevant to AVX yet just individual stories, but the next issues for both brings them into the fold. WATX #9 has Wolvy joining up with the Avenger's and putting the kids in safe mode that's about it with those 2 books.
As for Wolvy killing Hope I hit up Marvel.com and well here's kind of a spoiler. Avengers VS X-Men (2012) #4 | Comic Books | Comics | Marvel.com Again this just follows the trend of Phoenix host killing themselves to end the threat if it is her intention. The one AvX tie in that has been the most interesting so far is New Avengers. Seriously I can't wait to see what her tie into Kun Lun and her destiny to become the next Iron Fist has to do with the Phoenix!
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05-08-2012, 10:25 AM | #112 |
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05-08-2012, 10:25 AM | #113 |
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I loved that story actually. Thanks for posting that pic!.
I will however use your jubilee comment against you. Hope hasn't killed anyone he loved either. Like she said things haven't got bad yet. Jean, accomplished many good deeds with the Phoenix force before she turned Dark Phoenix. Wolverine couldn't kill Jean either even when he tried.
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05-08-2012, 10:32 AM | #114 |
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Very great story indeed, love how they brought in all the feral mutants as well, although sucks that they killed half of them off though. |
05-08-2012, 10:41 AM | #115 |
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I haven't been keeping up with his recent solo run, though, where Sabertooth is supposed to have been brought back. Exodus/FrankCastle, Have either of you read that arc? Was it decent?
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05-08-2012, 10:47 AM | #116 |
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The next Wolvy solo run is kind of crappy, but I may trade it up after I've done reading it to see if it's worthy to keep. On a side note, I just realize, what's with Marvel making "kids" villains these days? WATX have the "Hellfire Kids" and now new Silver Samurai is a kid. Sheesh. |
05-08-2012, 10:48 AM | #117 |
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Theres so much bullshit not said in this whole jerky event though- Why would Cyclops not just agree to have the X-Men go along into space with the Avengers and, you know...protect the world?
And why doesn't Wolverine ask Rachel to intercept the Phionex? It's no stranger to her- or call up Korvis and the Cucoos and try to split the force into something managable? Again, some contrived plot comes before writing characters as they've been established for decades- Cyclop's behavior is as stubborn and stupid as Steve and Tont's in Civil War. Now in X-Men, Cyclops is taking the coward's route by slandering the Avengers in some media campaign? Weak. I tuly hope this all ends with The Illumaniti getting together and useing their Gems to whack that birdy outta the sky and Professor X walking up and just turning off Scott's powers for good- firing his ass and boting him from the books. Then X-Men can become great book again. Oh, and the Illumaniti use the Infinity gauntlet to erase greg Land's tracing ass while they're at it! Last edited by Jason Abbadon; 05-08-2012 at 10:59 AM.. |
05-08-2012, 10:52 AM | #118 |
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Theres so much bullshit not said in this whole jerky event though- Why would Cyclops not just agree to have the X-Men go along into space with the Avengers and, you know...protect the world?
And why does Wolverine ask Rachel to intercept the Phionex? It's no stranger to her- or call up Korvis and the Cucoos and try to split the force into something managable? Again, some contrived plot comes before writing characters as they've been established for decades- Cyclop's behavior is as stubborn and stupid as Steve and Tont's in Civil War. Now in X-Men, Cyclops is taking the coward's route by slandering the Avengers in some media campaign? Weak. I tuly hope this all ends with The Illumaniti getting together and useing their Gems to whack that birdy outta the sky and Professor X walking up and just turning off Scott's powers for good- firing his ass and boting him from the books. Then X-Men can become great book again. Oh, and the Illumaniti use the Infinity gauntlet to erase greg Land's tracing ass while they're at it! |
05-08-2012, 10:55 AM | #119 |
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Jason summed that up pretty well.
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05-08-2012, 10:59 AM | #120 |
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Sorry probably irrelevant but dang psyched to see the X-Force tomorrow...and a new member joins in 2 months wonder who it'll be...If there was only 1 X-Title I could get it would be X-Force.
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05-08-2012, 10:59 AM | #121 |
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Yeah- playing the persecution card is weak- and made more cowardly since it's his dumb ass endangering the whole world!
Douchebag. Havok should go there and beat his ass...besides, what's to stop Sinister from cloning up a whole batch of Jeans to call the birdie to him? And yes, X-Force does ick ass. I kinda think Magneto will join eventually as he knows the secret and owes Wolvie one for killing that Nazi geezer for him.. Last edited by Jason Abbadon; 05-08-2012 at 11:01 AM.. |
05-08-2012, 11:17 AM | #122 |
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Yeah- playing the persecution card is weak- and made more cowardly since it's his dumb ass endangering the whole world!
Douchebag. Havok should go there and beat his ass...besides, what's to stop Sinister from cloning up a whole batch of Jeans to call the birdie to him? And yes, X-Force does ick ass. I kinda think Magneto will join eventually as he knows the secret and owes Wolvie one for killing that Nazi geezer for him.. I would love to see that happen.
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05-08-2012, 11:32 AM | #123 |
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Yeah- playing the persecution card is weak- and made more cowardly since it's his dumb ass endangering the whole world!
Douchebag. Havok should go there and beat his ass...besides, what's to stop Sinister from cloning up a whole batch of Jeans to call the birdie to him? And yes, X-Force does ick ass. I kinda think Magneto will join eventually as he knows the secret and owes Wolvie one for killing that Nazi geezer for him.. |
05-08-2012, 11:44 AM | #124 |
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05-08-2012, 11:56 AM | #125 |
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Him and Domino yup they're on one of the Cyke's X-Teams currently. Check out the new X-Force thread I created, next few issues are going to be as sick as Dark Angel, could be even better...
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