[Jester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

What you are saying is my point though. The lore in this manner comes across as blasphemous from a Catholic POV. That is why it feels weird......

Whether the avowedly fictional cosmology of a sci-fi wargame can constitute an act of blasphemy in this case is not a question I can answer off the top of my head. I can however state that this particular Catholic lad always found the religious aspects of 40K deeply resonant.

[BagJo]

I've been an action figure collector since I was like 3, and I didn't start miniature painting until I was about 23-25, so maybe I don't have the same "mentality" as the mini painter, but I think people getting butt-hurt about this figure existing is pretty silly. It's not like Games Workshop is suddenly going to stop making minis, and "normies" aren't going to suddenly clog your local game shop. Properly merchandising this property through video games, action figures and the like will actually help keep down the price of the minis, which are constantly going up in price.

This is a Win-Win

[ddarko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Whether the avowedly fictional cosmology of a sci-fi wargame can constitute an act of blasphemy in this case is not a question I can answer off the top of my head. I can however state that this particular Catholic lad always found the religious aspects of 40K deeply resonant.

I didn't mean to completely bash it If it helps, I am Catholic as well. I think the issue is that the fictional lore does indeed come across as incompatible with the world as described by the Catholic understanding. Even if we grant for the sake of argument that the emperor was Christ, we have deep philosophical problems. God in the Catholic sense is the being that creates and sustains the existence of creation itself. But the emperor pales in that comparison. The emperor is more similar to how people refer to Godzilla as "God". YET, in the 40K universe, he is worshiped and treated as if he were the actual God.

This is why I personally root for Eldar in the 40K. The following exchange between Taldeer and Thule during the Dark Crusade won me over completely haha:-

Captain Thule(Upon losing the relic): Alien witch! You despoil our chapel with your presence.
Farseer Taldeer: Your Emperor is an illusion, human. I cannot blaspheme against something that isn’t divine.
Captain Thule: You dare…!
Farseer Taldeer: Unless, of course, you pray to something else altogether from this ruined temple.

[Jester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

I didn't mean to completely bash it If it helps, I am Catholic as well.

I would never have guessed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

I think the issue is that the fictional lore does indeed come across as incompatible with the world as described by the Catholic understanding. Even if we grant for the sake of argument that the emperor was Christ, we have deep philosophical problems. God in the Catholic sense is the being that creates and sustains the existence of creation itself.

I think that that's an issue present in most mainstream sci-fi and fantasy universes, though. Halo, Star Trek, Star Wars, Game of Thrones, etc, all would be due for similar criticism concerning their cosmology, by the same token.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

But the emperor pales in that comparison. The emperor is more similar to how people refer to Godzilla as "God". YET, in the 40K universe, he is worshiped and treated as if he were the actual God.

To my understanding of the lore, there's a not-unreasonable basis to suppose that the Emperor is God as far as 40K is concerned. I mean, sure, the character was originally described as a gestalt of prehistoric human psykers welded together into a sort of "super-soul" for the purposes of defending mankind from Chaos, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside years ago. More recent texts have alluded to the Emperor's true nature as being so indescribably above and beyond everything else in the universe that neither the most advanced aliens nor all the forces of Chaos can in any way comprehend it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

This is why I personally root for Eldar in the 40K. The following exchange between Taldeer and Thule during the Dark Crusade won me over completely haha:-

Captain Thule(Upon losing the relic): Alien witch! You despoil our chapel with your presence.
Farseer Taldeer: Your Emperor is an illusion, human. I cannot blaspheme against something that isn’t divine.
Captain Thule: You dare…!
Farseer Taldeer: Unless, of course, you pray to something else altogether from this ruined temple.

To me, that just illustrates the extent to which the Eldar tend to be blinded by their own arrogance, and/or how silly the DoW games tend to be (I mean, Khornate sorcerors? Seriously?).

[ddarko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I would never have guessed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I think that that's an issue present in most mainstream sci-fi and fantasy universes, though. Halo, Star Trek, Star Wars, Game of Thrones, etc, all would be due for similar criticism concerning their cosmology, by the same token.

You are certainly right. But in many of those series, you usually do not have something so blatantly incompatible at a fundamental level though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

To my understanding of the lore, there's a not-unreasonable basis to suppose that the Emperor is God as far as 40K is concerned. I mean, sure, the character was originally described as a gestalt of prehistoric human psykers welded together into a sort of "super-soul" for the purposes of defending mankind from Chaos, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside years ago. More recent texts have alluded to the Emperor's true nature as being so indescribably above and beyond everything else in the universe that neither the most advanced aliens nor all the forces of Chaos can in any way comprehend it.

I think the issue still is that no matter of how indescribable his power, he only comes across as a formidable person that has greater power than his foes. But for all that, he is still practically lying dead (um.... I mean... life support haha) on the Golden Throne.

But God, at least the one that is philosophically established and defended like in the schools of Aristotelian Thomism (and by virtue, in Catholicism) is not a being of that nature. God is pure existence itself. While the emperor may certainly be powerful, there is nothing about him that even comes close to that level of power.

Even more fundamentally, the emperor is after an earthly kingdom, pretty much like the textbook description of an Anti-Christ. If one ever had to evaluate if one was the same person as Christ based on evidence, the emperor is the very definition of everything opposite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

To me, that just illustrates the extent to which the Eldar tend to be blinded by their own arrogance, and/or how silly the DoW games tend to be (I mean, Khornate sorcerors? Seriously?).

Haha, well, I am not sure how precise you are about these things, but I think its established consensus in the W40K community by now that the entire lore is filled with inconsistencies (and this is leaving aside the games).

[Foreddyn]

Bah! All these talk of heresy! Bring in the WAAAGH!

But in a serious note, if these are 7" wouldn't they be in scale with 4" scale then? Since they're giant-like? Or am I thinking about the Primarchs?

[Stranger]

Absolutely love this but even though I'm an avid 7" collector I think this would translate way better in 3 3/4 scale. You can't just have one space marine. You need a whole squad with some terminators and dreadnoughts and tanks and bikes and... I'm running out of table space.

[lordbest]

I'll get a few of these, depending on price, and hope they expand the line to characters and xenos.

[Dolemite]

This thread took an interesting turn. How often does a toy post turn into a theological discussion?

[lars573]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

What you are saying is my point though. The lore in this manner comes across as blasphemous from a Catholic POV. That is why it feels weird......

The Ecclesiarchy is straight up the Catholic Church (circa 1300) IN SPACE! A lot of things in 40k are ___ IN SPACE!!! Yes the motherf---ing Emperor is Space-Jesus. Horus is Space-satan, and Robot Gorillaman is space Michael.

And if this line produces any of those three I'll bite. Rowboat Girlyman being the most likely.

[Jester]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

You are certainly right. But in many of those series, you usually do not have something so blatantly incompatible at a fundamental level though.

We may have to agree to disagree about that, LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

I think the issue still is that no matter of how indescribable his power, he only comes across as a formidable person that has greater power than his foes. But for all that, he is still practically lying dead (um.... I mean... life support haha) on the Golden Throne.

But God, at least the one that is philosophically established and defended like in the schools of Aristotelian Thomism (and by virtue, in Catholicism) is not a being of that nature. God is pure existence itself. While the emperor may certainly be powerful, there is nothing about him that even comes close to that level of power.

Even more fundamentally, the emperor is after an earthly kingdom, pretty much like the textbook description of an Anti-Christ. If one ever had to evaluate if one was the same person as Christ based on evidence, the emperor is the very definition of everything opposite.

We're obviously not reading the same books.

Personally, I think that there is ample basis to position the Emperor as God (unless GW pulls another Oldhammer-style "End Times" clusterfuck to "move the setting forward" and has Chaos eat everything via authorial asspull fiat) within the ambiguities of the WH40K universe. As previously mentioned, the Emperor has been recognized, not as a formidable person that has greater power than his foes, but rather as something entirely different and ultimately unknowable to them, something that neither the C'Tan "star gods" nor the so-called gods of Chaos have any hope of directly opposing (and so are reduced to the equivalent of throwing eggs at his house), and whose ultimate goal is not an earthly kingdom but rather the salvation of mankind from the fruits of their own sins (i.e. Chaos).

That's one way of looking at it, anyway. The older lore was much more explicitly premised on the idea of a Godless universe where all spiritual entities were simply the collective manifestations of each race's psychic energy, and thus ultimately the products of a blind, Darwinian evolutionary process.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddarko

, well, I am not sure how precise you are about these things, but I think its established consensus in the W40K community by now that the entire lore is filled with inconsistencies (and this is leaving aside the games).

If you recall, GW's official stance is apparently that it's all canon, especially the inconsistencies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foreddyn

Bah! All these talk of heresy! Bring in the WAAAGH!

But in a serious note, if these are 7" wouldn't they be in scale with 4" scale then? Since they're giant-like? Or am I thinking about the Primarchs?

A 7" Space Marine would be waaaay too big to be in-scale with a 4" Guardsman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

Absolutely love this but even though I'm an avid 7" collector I think this would translate way better in 3 3/4 scale. You can't just have one space marine. You need a whole squad with some terminators and dreadnoughts and tanks and bikes and... I'm running out of table space.

Absolutely, but perhaps if this is succesful we'll see GW/Bandai experimenting with smaller scales, kind of like how the table-top game comes in regular and "epic" flavours to allow for the setting's larger and more exotic war-machines to be deployed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolemite

This thread took an interesting turn. How often does a toy post turn into a theological discussion?

Catholics, man. You can't take 'em anywhere.

[lars573]

I thnk this piece of art is needed. It's a 40k human and trans-human size chart.

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XBgb3a

[master kent]

What are the price on the figure? hope its not 60$ or more.Want to built an army.

[RamenRider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by master kent

What are the price on the figure? hope its not 60$ or more.Want to built an army.

If the paint is basic I expect something around 30, they're aiming towards the casual collector market after all.

Could be more but I personally think 30-40 could be okay, the latter if they include a few more weapons and apply some shading and weathering to the armor.

[BagJo]

I feel like I'm going to have to paint and glue on some mechanicus purity seals for this guy when he comes out.

[Ricno924]

I'm extremely excited for this. I love WH40K, but I haven't had the time to invest in painting and playing with the tabletop game, so a line of action figures is right up my alley.

I echo the sentiments of others in this thread in that I hope to see a good variety of characters from various factions. It'd also be cool to get some different Marine marks alongside faction repaints, like a MK6 Corvus armor Marine.

[RamenRider]

On display at Tokyo Toy Show, sadly no news regarding a release date.

https://news.amiami.jp/event/2019/06/184231.html

[RamenRider]

On display at C3AFATOKYO, no news regarding a release date, but we get to see a new accessory - an Astartes Combat Knife.

https://mobile.twitter.com/amiamihob...96966222561281

[Joe Moore]

Warhammer 40,000 Primaris Intercessor Action Figure by Bandai - The Toyark - News

[RamenRider]

Nice, finally! I’ve been waiting for this.

The paintjob is honestly better than I expected, it looks awesome on its own yet leaves the Warhammer-fans enough room to customize.

By the way, is this confirmed to be made by Bandai of America? I never read what specific branch was working on this, personally I'd say its Japan as the prototype was on display at a few Japanese toy shows.

[BagJo]

It looks fantastic, can't wait to get this guy.

[RamenRider]

They posted a turnaround gif too! Man that looks amazing.

[dukefett]

Interested but I have a feeling the price will put me off lol.

[graphyt]

Oh this looks like a dangerous army builder. Joints look like figuarts, and I'm bracing myself for a $100 price tag. But this is defined one I've been waiting for despite not being much for the blue boys. Would have loved a $20-25 range domestic line though.

[Dolemite]

By the Emperor! It would be heresy to not buy this figure!