The better Sorcerer?

D00MTR0N · 11-12-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortune

No but it does make him crazy. On the same note having mental problems doesnt completly absolve him either nor does it make him an anti hero just cuz he may or may not have an excuse.

I said nothing of an excuse.

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 02:15 PM

Doomtron,

Do you really want Doom to be a hero/anti-hero? You seem to have a very skewed perspective on what being a hero/good guy constitutes if you feel Dr. Doom, from the comics, meets the criteria for being a Hero/anti-hero.

Excluding this recent Future Foundation version (of which I haven't read enough of to comment on what he has become) why is it that Dr. Doom is constantly in the discussions of Greatest comic book villains of all time just about anywhere you can find one if he wasn't in fact a villain? To have one or two redeeming moments doesn't absolve a lifetime's worth of evil deeds. Just wants to save his mother? Oh cry me a river, that just makes him sound pathetic so we'll just pretend you never used that sentence.

Furthermore, Doom doesn't fit an anti-hero description on account that he doesn't believe in the greater good by any means necessary...he believes in the good of whatever puts him at a superior position of power over others by any means necessary, even if that means doing what is perceived to be the "good" thing in the presence of other heroes. In short, Doom always has ulterior motives and these motives don't benefit the people who are universally recognized in comics as heroes or the citizens they seek to protect.

That said, I love doom as a villain and he is in my top 3 of Magneto, Doom and Sinestro.

Doom is a very complex character and I've always appreciated that. But part of the reason I love him is because he isn't invincible and can't defeat everyone and anyone. I hate any character who is that omnipotent. The fact that Doom is never defeated to the point that he can't get back on his feet and make a future attempt to reconcile his previous failures is a testament to his perseverance and stubbornness, which I view as a great strength in this regard.

He isn't the greater sorcerer over Strange by any means, but that doesn't make him an inferior character or even any less of a threat to order in the Marvel Universe. He ranks as one of the greatest villains for a reason.

D00MTR0N · 11-12-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

Just wants to save his mother? Oh cry me a river, that just makes him sound pathetic so we'll just pretend you never used that sentence.

and I will pretend you did not post this macho "tough guy" bullsh%t,I dont need you to break down and disect what I say and how I feel,answer the thread question and leave my views out of it!

Tiberius · 11-12-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

and I will pretend you posted this macho "tough guy" bullsh%t,I dont need you to break down and disect what I say and how I feel,answer the thread question and leave my views out of it!

Damn Doomtron, you get defensive very quickly...

In the scenario you gave at the beginning, Magic Vs Magic, Strange wings. But if it was anything goes, I am pretty sure Doom has more tricks out of his sleeve and would win. But as I said, in the scenario given, it's all Strange.

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

and I will pretend you posted this macho "tough guy" bullsh%t,I dont need you to break down and disect what I say and how I feel,answer the thread question and leave my views out of it!

That has nothing to do with being Macho tough guy. You tried to absolve his evil acts by saying he just wants to save his mother. Do you know how pathetic and weak that sounds of a character you claim is more than that?

If I read you wrong than tell me what you meant. That was my interpretation. I will respond how I feel appropriate, If I insulted you directly let me know. I don't disagree that my interpretation of your statement makes the character sound pathetic.

D00MTR0N · 11-12-2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Damn Doomtron, you get defensive very quickly...

no,I defend myself and my views ,period!

D00MTR0N · 11-12-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

You tried to absolve his evil acts by saying he just wants to save his mother.

If I insulted you directly let me know.

A.no,I did not

B.you did,so drop it now!

Tiberius · 11-12-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

no,I defend myself and my views ,period!

Yea, very quickly. People also defend their views but almost every post I read from you is trying to tell them they are wrong. That Doom is this, or Doom is that.

Strange Magic > Doom Magic.

Period.

D00MTR0N · 11-12-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Yea, very quickly. People also defend their views but almost every post I read from you is trying to tell them they are wrong. That Doom is this, or Doom is that.

Strange Magic > Doom Magic.

Period.

imo, you > wrong
PERIOD!

Tiberius · 11-12-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

imo, you > wrong
PERIOD!

So...that makes me right, right?

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

A.no,I did not

B.you did,so drop it now!

A.

Quote:

not a villian,he is more of an anti hero and in the end all he wants is to save his mother,strip all the anger and what not away,reed and the fantastic 4 are simply an outlet for it,he is deep down a legit anti hero,and a good dude imo.

B.

Quote:

I dont need you to break down and disect what I say and how I feel,answer the thread question and leave my views out of it!

This is a discussion that you started. Your views will be broken down for the sake of argument. I did not call you a name or directly call you pathetic, I responded to the thought of justifying cruel villainous acts to save a mother who made a deal with the devil.

If you can't take the opinions of others who are being as reasonable as can be about a frivolous topic out of sheer entertainment, that's your problem not mine.

Fortune · 11-12-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

imo, you > wrong
PERIOD!

So ...tiberius is greater then wrong...is that right? ...I think Doomtron may be upset he doesnt know Doom as well as he thought he did lol

Anyway. I reread all veiws and I must say I stand by my first response in a straight up magical fight strange wins. But if the two went at it with no rules of course doom would find a way. Especially if he had prep time.

Tiberius · 11-12-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortune

So ...tiberius is greater then wrong...is that right? ...I think Doomtron may be upset he doesnt know Doom as well as he thought he did lol

Anyway. I reread all veiws and I must say I stand by my first response in a straight up magical fight strange wins. But if the two went at it with no rules of course doom would find a way. Especially if he had prep time.

Bwahahaha yea I smiled a bit with that part. Anyways, I think even without prep time, Doom would win in a no hold bard.

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortune

So ...tiberius is greater then wrong...is that right? ...I think Doomtron may be upset he doesnt know Doom as well as he thought he did lol

Anyway. I reread all veiws and I must say I stand by my first response in a straight up magical fight strange wins. But if the two went at it with no rules of course doom would find a way. Especially if he had prep time.

So he'd need to pull a Batman to win?

D00MTR0N · 11-12-2011, 03:08 PM

look,I dont mean to come off as a jerk,I am defensive by nature but this is the kind of shit that got me banned from hisstank and I like this site and most of you are cool with smart replies that I enjoy reading,so forgive my quick temper.

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Bwahahaha yea I smiled a bit with that part. Anyways, I think even without prep time, Doom would win in a no hold bard.

wait, is this mano a mano? You do know Strange is a very good martial artist also, right? or am I missing something?

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

look,I dont mean to come off as a jerk,I am defensive by nature but this is the kind of shit that got me banned from hisstank and I like this site and most of you are cool with smart replies that I enjoy reading,so forgive my quick temper.

fair enough. Now back on topic!

Fortune · 11-12-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Bwahahaha yea I smiled a bit with that part. Anyways, I think even without prep time, Doom would win in a no hold bard.

I agree but honestly I read way more with Doom then I do Strange so I didn't want to discredit strange.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

So he'd need to pull a Batman to win?

No no no I never said NEED but hey I know it would help. Plus I didn't want to discredit strange.

Tiberius · 11-12-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

wait, is this mano a mano? You do know Strange is a very good martial artist also, right? or am I missing something?

Doom has to much to back him up. The deciding factor in "anything goes" will be his tech. Example, even if Strange gets the upper hand and wins, Doomtech will just let Doom go back in time, stop that from happening, and continue the fight, or win the fight. But that wasn't the original scenario so Strange still wins with Magic Vs Magic.

But as to what you where saying, you mean just being stripped down naked and fight with fists? I wouldn't even want to imagine that happening, it is just weird, naked or not.

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortune

No no no I never said NEED but hey I know it would help. Plus I didn't want to discredit strange.

So what would be the battle of Doom vs Strange in a no holds barred matchup?

You said that Strange would win in a magical battle, but can he not use magic in a no rules match? Why would that give Doom the edge, just curious?

Greenskar · 11-12-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Doom has to much to back him up. The deciding factor in "anything goes" will be his tech. Example, even if Strange gets the upper hand and wins, Doomtech will just let Doom go back in time, stop that from happening, and continue the fight, or win the fight. But that wasn't the original scenario so Strange still wins with Magic Vs Magic.

But as to what you where saying, you mean just being stripped down naked and fight with fists? I wouldn't even want to imagine that happening, it is just weird, naked or not.

lmao at the strip down naked part. I don't wanna watch that fight, lol. I agree with the Doom has a lot to back him up and I can see that scenario. This answers my question to Fortune too.

FancyPants · 11-12-2011, 03:25 PM

i thought this thread was about actual sorcery...I am disappointed

thechris · 11-12-2011, 03:29 PM

Dr. Strange wins because he is the better sorcerer because he's the only one out of the two that's a sorcerer for the majority of his run and seemed to be doing a pretty good job. I think this is a bizarre comparison unless Doom has suddenly gone from whatever it was that he was before to sorcerer mode but then I don't really follow the new Marvel stuff. Perhaps Strange vs Mordo or Mandarin or Dormammu would have been more suitable or I don't know, Crimson Dynamo vs Doom since in my mind, anyway, neither of them have been sorcerers and would be equally bizarre. Tiberius vs thechris: who's the better flashlight? This is like Tiberius vs a flashlight. Who's the better flashlight. Sorry, I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore, but I think it makes sense.

Tiberius · 11-12-2011, 03:31 PM

Doom has very strong magical ties. As strong as they are though, Strange was Sorcerer Surpreme for a reason..

Fortune · 11-12-2011, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

So what would be the battle of Doom vs Strange in a no holds barred matchup?

You said that Strange would win in a magical battle, but can he not use magic in a no rules match? Why would that give Doom the edge, just curious?

Well strange clearly has a better grasp and handle on all things magic but a no rules match comes down then Doom has the advantage do to his much larger mentality and his access to all different kinds of tech including doom bots

View Poll Results: The sorcerer supreme?
Dr.Doom	1	5.56%
Dr.Strange	17	94.44%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

11-12-2011, 02:15 PM	#27
Greenskar Puny Humans Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,342	Doomtron, Do you really want Doom to be a hero/anti-hero? You seem to have a very skewed perspective on what being a hero/good guy constitutes if you feel Dr. Doom, from the comics, meets the criteria for being a Hero/anti-hero. Excluding this recent Future Foundation version (of which I haven't read enough of to comment on what he has become) why is it that Dr. Doom is constantly in the discussions of Greatest comic book villains of all time just about anywhere you can find one if he wasn't in fact a villain? To have one or two redeeming moments doesn't absolve a lifetime's worth of evil deeds. Just wants to save his mother? Oh cry me a river, that just makes him sound pathetic so we'll just pretend you never used that sentence. Furthermore, Doom doesn't fit an anti-hero description on account that he doesn't believe in the greater good by any means necessary...he believes in the good of whatever puts him at a superior position of power over others by any means necessary, even if that means doing what is perceived to be the "good" thing in the presence of other heroes. In short, Doom always has ulterior motives and these motives don't benefit the people who are universally recognized in comics as heroes or the citizens they seek to protect. That said, I love doom as a villain and he is in my top 3 of Magneto, Doom and Sinestro. Doom is a very complex character and I've always appreciated that. But part of the reason I love him is because he isn't invincible and can't defeat everyone and anyone. I hate any character who is that omnipotent. The fact that Doom is never defeated to the point that he can't get back on his feet and make a future attempt to reconcile his previous failures is a testament to his perseverance and stubbornness, which I view as a great strength in this regard. He isn't the greater sorcerer over Strange by any means, but that doesn't make him an inferior character or even any less of a threat to order in the Marvel Universe. He ranks as one of the greatest villains for a reason. __________________ Last edited by Greenskar; 11-12-2011 at 02:31 PM..

11-12-2011, 02:41 PM	#28
D00MTR0N Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Castle D00M Posts: 4,565	Quote: Originally Posted by Greenskar Just wants to save his mother? Oh cry me a river, that just makes him sound pathetic so we'll just pretend you never used that sentence. and I will pretend you did not post this macho "tough guy" bullsh%t,I dont need you to break down and disect what I say and how I feel,answer the thread question and leave my views out of it! Last edited by D00MTR0N; 11-12-2011 at 02:48 PM..

11-12-2011, 02:47 PM	#29
Tiberius Be Superior Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 9,891	Quote: Originally Posted by D00MTR0N and I will pretend you posted this macho "tough guy" bullsh%t,I dont need you to break down and disect what I say and how I feel,answer the thread question and leave my views out of it! Damn Doomtron, you get defensive very quickly... In the scenario you gave at the beginning, Magic Vs Magic, Strange wings. But if it was anything goes, I am pretty sure Doom has more tricks out of his sleeve and would win. But as I said, in the scenario given, it's all Strange. __________________

11-12-2011, 02:48 PM	#30
Greenskar Puny Humans Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,342	Quote: Originally Posted by D00MTR0N and I will pretend you posted this macho "tough guy" bullsh%t,I dont need you to break down and disect what I say and how I feel,answer the thread question and leave my views out of it! That has nothing to do with being Macho tough guy. You tried to absolve his evil acts by saying he just wants to save his mother. Do you know how pathetic and weak that sounds of a character you claim is more than that? If I read you wrong than tell me what you meant. That was my interpretation. I will respond how I feel appropriate, If I insulted you directly let me know. I don't disagree that my interpretation of your statement makes the character sound pathetic. __________________