[gunzilla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSymbiote

One thing we wouldn't like if they changed a characters race would be if they made black characters that spoke in ebonics.

Yeah like rocket in young justice every time she spoke it made me uncomfortable

[synapse17]

Ha. Lets all hope not.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by synapse17

Man You lost me there. Not that you're not making sense, I just have no experience with the Air Bender. It's seems like a good show, I'v just never gotten around to watching it.

He's actually referring to "The Last Airbender" the movie, and not "Avatar: The Last Airbender" the show.
Show is much much muuuuuch better.
And to highlight what he's speaking about, in the show:
Air Nomads: In the show they are based on Tibetan monks. In the movie, given the nomadic nature, they're sort of a hodgepodge of all sorts of races.
Water Tribe: In the show they are based on Eskimo and northern southern american indians. In the movie, they're more caucasian/off white.
Earth Kingdom: In the show, I feel they're the hodgepodge group, with a very very strong chinese influence. But they give me the impression if caucasian or african races exist in this world, they would be found there. In the movie, they are asian/chinese.
Fire Nations: In the show, they are based on Japanese culture. In the movie, they are east indian.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

He's actually referring to "The Last Airbender" the movie, and not "Avatar: The Last Airbender" the show.
Show is much much muuuuuch better.
And to highlight what he's speaking about, in the show:
Air Nomads: In the show they are based on Tibetan monks. In the movie, given the nomadic nature, they're sort of a hodgepodge of all sorts of races.
Water Tribe: In the show they are based on Eskimo and northern southern american indians. In the movie, they're more caucasian/off white.
Earth Kingdom: In the show, I feel they're the hodgepodge group, with a very very strong chinese influence. But they give me the impression of caucasian or african races exist in this oworld, they would be found there. In the movie, they are asian/chinese.
Fire Nations: In the show, they are based on Japanese culture. In the movie, they are east indian.

Yeah, that's what I was pointing out between the show and movie. Used it as an example because everyone calls it whitewashed, and in reality it's not at all. It's an epic series (though the first book is slow until the end), but the movie has got problems. Just not the problems people assume. They immediately go to the race as the issue and blame that when the problems are much deeper than that in just bad story-telling. The race changes could have really worked in the movie's favor and has a lot of forethought it seems when you look at the potential food style of the movie's fire nation. The problem with tv shows, and really all visual media that's not live action is that audiences will project themself onto a race or a character if it's just a little similiar. I have a friend who swears up and down that katara and sokka are black(they aren't, they are more eskimo/ethnic off-white), that Kimura from Marvel is black (She's actually more likely from latin descent). Pretty much any character with a tan for one issue for one episode of a show is black to him.

Which to me gets old real quick as I don't seperate characters based on appearance but on heritage or parentage. I also get annoyed repeatedly at those that assume all anime automatically means asian characters. Every character that's well made has a full history and heritage. Caucasians end up in series too.

Like if they ever make a gunsmith cats movie, Rally Vincent must be native american and caucasian mixed, while minnie may needs to be a little caucasian girl. For those two, Race is what directly attributes to their history and personalities and what they've gone through in life. Just like with the supernatural anime, Dean and Sam aren't all of a sudden Japanese.

[Crazy Jetty]

@Snow
I agree with you about anime. To be honest, I feel that caucasions end up working better for the most part as most live action adaptation anime.
Sailor Moon, Sailor Venus, Sailor Jupiter... I don't think they would work well at all played by asian actresses. Sailor Mars definately needs a japanese actress, and Sailor Mercury could actually work either way (She could actually even work with an african acress)
With Ah! My Goddess, it's pretty obvious that Belldandy and Skuld are intended to be European/nordic in appearance, with Urd being half caucasian, half african, with most (if not all) other characters intending to be japanese.
But of course, Ah! My Goddess is one of the few series that's handled very realistically when it comes to races. (Fujishima doesn't even use unrealistic hair tones, save for Urd. And pure white hair isn't *that* outrageous).

I will say about Pokemon... the producers behind the anime, and the game makers understand they have a global audience, and I appreciate how hard they work to make sure they don't offend anyone. Japanese really don't find as much problem with stereotyping, especially for humor, and they tend not to care as much about political correctness as other areas in the world. But the Pokemon people tend to go out of their way to make sure it's as inoffensive, and openminded as possible. (The Pokemon Jynx was intended to poke fun at an extreme fasion trend amongst japanese teenaged girls, but when they realized americans interperated it as "Black face" they quickly changed Jynx' basic look). And in the games and anime, they've long included "Ambiguously brown" characters that could be interperated as a number of races. And coming to now, with Black and White, they have characters specifically intended to be african decent. (Iris, gym leader in the games and main character in the anime, as well as another gym leader who plays a much bigger role than most gym leaders in the past in the game)

Also, congratulations, you are the first person I've ever met who defenced TLA movie, in any form!
I agree I feel people gripe on the race issue way too much. My brother even gets angry that it "Here comes the white man to liberate everyone!" Which I don't get that impression at all.
I don't even feel the movie is *that* bad from a story telling standpoint. I just feel it's way too short, and way too condensed. It honestly needed to be treated *more* like LotR, and had at least another hour added to it. With that extra hour, the events they had could have been paced better, with greater focus on characterurization.
It also needed to have more of the trademark Avatar humor. (Especially from Sokka and Uncle)
Another thing it gets unfairly attacked for, is the "mispronunciation" of names. Especially by people who really don't get that it's the cartoon that's mispronouncing the names. Shyamalon is such a stickler for detail, and puts so much thought into the things he does, he's going to make sure the names are pronounced correctly. And he did.

All in all, I think had he been given another hour to decompress his movie, it would have flowed so much better. At the very least, I'd hoped for an extended director's cut edition for DVD, that included the Kyoshi Warrior scenes he filmed.

[xhavoc86]

im not a fan of racial changes, its one thing for example if someone replaces someone else like how Ryan Choi took on the mantle of Atom after Ray Palmer... but i do not like it when a character is changed just to change them... just have a different character introduced or have the previous one retire and bring someone else in, why change? i think diversity is great, but you dont need to change characters to do that, you can add a different character or introduce a new one.

[synapse17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhavoc86

im not a fan of racial changes, its one thing for example if someone replaces someone else like how Ryan Choi took on the mantle of Atom after Ray Palmer... but i do not like it when a character is changed just to change them... just have a different character introduced or have the previous one retire and bring someone else in, why change? i think diversity is great, but you dont need to change characters to do that, you can add a different character or introduce a new one.

You make a good point. It is kind of strange to take character who is who he/she is, and for no real reason change their race.

But in a movies based on 30-50 year old comics, the cast of characters may not include any diversity at all. This can look messed up to viewers wondering, where are all the minorities..?

But with that said, I'm just now realizing that I can't think of any black people in Amazing Spider-Man. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by synapse17

You make a good point. It is kind of strange to take character who is who he/she is, and for no real reason change their race.

But in a movies based on 30-50 year old comics, the cast of characters may not include any diversity at all. This can look messed up to viewers wondering, where are all the minorities..?

But with that said, I'm just now realizing that I can't think of any black people in Amazing Spider-Man. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not familier enough with spiderman to remember every supporting character's name, but isn't there a major character at the Bugal who's black? One of Peter's mentors, who tends to smooth out Jameson's perpetually ruffled feathers?
Robbie, I think?

[synapse17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

I'm not familier enough with spiderman to remember every supporting character's name, but isn't there a major character at the Bugal who's black? One of Peter's mentors, who tends to smooth out Jameson's perpetually ruffled feathers?
Robbie, I think?

Yes thats true but I was talking about the movie. I cant think of his name (starts with a r I think) but you are absolutely right.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

@Snow
I agree with you about anime. To be honest, I feel that caucasions end up working better for the most part as most live action adaptation anime.
Sailor Moon, Sailor Venus, Sailor Jupiter... I don't think they would work well at all played by asian actresses. Sailor Mars definately needs a japanese actress, and Sailor Mercury could actually work either way (She could actually even work with an african acress)
With Ah! My Goddess, it's pretty obvious that Belldandy and Skuld are intended to be European/nordic in appearance, with Urd being half caucasian, half african, with most (if not all) other characters intending to be japanese.
But of course, Ah! My Goddess is one of the few series that's handled very realistically when it comes to races. (Fujishima doesn't even use unrealistic hair tones, save for Urd. And pure white hair isn't *that* outrageous).

I will say about Pokemon... the producers behind the anime, and the game makers understand they have a global audience, and I appreciate how hard they work to make sure they don't offend anyone. Japanese really don't find as much problem with stereotyping, especially for humor, and they tend not to care as much about political correctness as other areas in the world. But the Pokemon people tend to go out of their way to make sure it's as inoffensive, and openminded as possible. (The Pokemon Jynx was intended to poke fun at an extreme fasion trend amongst japanese teenaged girls, but when they realized americans interperated it as "Black face" they quickly changed Jynx' basic look). And in the games and anime, they've long included "Ambiguously brown" characters that could be interperated as a number of races. And coming to now, with Black and White, they have characters specifically intended to be african decent. (Iris, gym leader in the games and main character in the anime, as well as another gym leader who plays a much bigger role than most gym leaders in the past in the game)

Also, congratulations, you are the first person I've ever met who defenced TLA movie, in any form!
I agree I feel people gripe on the race issue way too much. My brother even gets angry that it "Here comes the white man to liberate everyone!" Which I don't get that impression at all.
I don't even feel the movie is *that* bad from a story telling standpoint. I just feel it's way too short, and way too condensed. It honestly needed to be treated *more* like LotR, and had at least another hour added to it. With that extra hour, the events they had could have been paced better, with greater focus on characterurization.
It also needed to have more of the trademark Avatar humor. (Especially from Sokka and Uncle)
Another thing it gets unfairly attacked for, is the "mispronunciation" of names. Especially by people who really don't get that it's the cartoon that's mispronouncing the names. Shyamalon is such a stickler for detail, and puts so much thought into the things he does, he's going to make sure the names are pronounced correctly. And he did.

All in all, I think had he been given another hour to decompress his movie, it would have flowed so much better. At the very least, I'd hoped for an extended director's cut edition for DVD, that included the Kyoshi Warrior scenes he filmed.

Pretty much agree with all of that.
Though the names, I have to side with the cartoon on since even in 'mispronounced words from other cultures' it is the series 'bible' so to speak. My main gripes though are the lackluster ending avatar state, and the lack of the pro-women rights fight to change the northern water tribe's culture. That second aspect made the north more well rounded by having flaws, whereas the movie made it seem like a water bending utopia.

Anime fans tend to annoy me though. Their pro-asian stance while ignoring a character's actual heritage within the literature itself is just as bad as the race bending they claim is going on. They do it with such conviction too while never checking a character's nationality. That same friend I've mentioned before is also adamant that Ubuu from DBZ is black, when it's kind of obvious he's probably arab or middle eastern or persian or east indian considering the entire "Majin/djinn/genie" roots of his character.

Of course I've never understood why people get in a huff over dubs either, for me it depends on the location it takes place in.

If an anime is occuring in an english speaking area(blood the last vampire being on an american army base, Gunsmith Cats being in Chicago), it doesn't make sense for all the background characters to be speaking japanese. Just like with stuff that takes place in feudal japan(Samurai Champloo, Samurai X) or tokyo, it doesn't make sense for them to be speaking english unless it's a relevant story point or they are a tourist.

Future stories and fantasy realms can vary based on whatever their influences are, but by nature since they aren't of this world or time they can skate as either or.

Quote:

Originally Posted by synapse17

Yes thats true but I was talking about the movie. I cant think of his name (starts with a r I think) but you are absolutely right.

Robert "Robbie" Robertson.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

Future stories and fantasy realms can vary based on whatever their influences are, but by nature since they aren't of this world or time they can skate as either or.

Newp. Doctor Who and Star Wars teaches us that everyone in the universe has a brittish accent! ;P

As for the Avatar names, I do prefer the cartoon pronunciations. I just get tired of people complaining the movie mispronounces the names, while under the belief that the cartoon pronounces them correctly. It wouldn't annoy me if the gripe was that they prefer the cartoon pronunciation. Or that it's "Mispronounced from the cartoon."
Does that make sense? I think I'm borderline losing myself here, I can only imagine someone who's not in my head.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

Newp. Doctor Who and Star Wars teaches us that everyone in the universe has a brittish accent! ;P

As for the Avatar names, I do prefer the cartoon pronunciations. I just get tired of people complaining the movie mispronounces the names, while under the belief that the cartoon pronounces them correctly. It wouldn't annoy me if the gripe was that they prefer the cartoon pronunciation. Or that it's "Mispronounced from the cartoon."
Does that make sense? I think I'm borderline losing myself here, I can only imagine someone who's not in my head.

Nah, I get what you mean.
I love how doctor who explains it away using the tardis though. xD That's good tv where even the simplest of details like that have an explanation. <3 the Tardis translation matrix and its obsession with Britain.

Star wars has no excuse. >.> But it doesn't need to do anything other than look cool anyway.

[KingLouie731]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhavoc86

im not a fan of racial changes, its one thing for example if someone replaces someone else like how Ryan Choi took on the mantle of Atom after Ray Palmer... but i do not like it when a character is changed just to change them... just have a different character introduced or have the previous one retire and bring someone else in, why change? i think diversity is great, but you dont need to change characters to do that, you can add a different character or introduce a new one.

yeah the only problem with the new character is that come the next big crossover they are likely to be sacrificed for effect or some stupid mess like that

[TheSymbiote]

Race changes we would be ok with
Hawkman and Hawkgirl could be black or Egyptian looking
Raven could be Asian
Could Iron Fist be Chinese???

Also does anyone else think Dwayne Johnson would be a good actor to play Drax in the Guardians movie, or is it just us? Lol

[KingLouie731]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSymbiote

Race changes we would be ok with
Hawkman and Hawkgirl could be black or Egyptian looking
Raven could be Asian
Could Iron Fist be Chinese???

Also does anyone else think Dwayne Johnson would be a good actor to play Drax in the Guardians movie, or is it just us? Lol

Only if that Drax is a wise cracker, I don't really see D Johnson playing it straight in a movie with a talking raccoon. Sorry for my ignorance, I have yet to read up on the current/most recent Guardians to my own detriment, right Jason A

[warmachine6]

i think all the main superheros should be normal race
but others like hemidall , Moreau (TRIVIA the actor Idris Elba plays both these characters !!! ) can be different races im not 2 fused really

[trebleshot]

Personally, I have no problem switching races when it's due to an alternate universe, a new version of an existing character (Miles Morales, Rhodey and the like) or some other similar explanation.

I would not like it being changed if the core idea of the character is partially-based on his/her race, unless there is some reasonable explanation for it. Well, reasonable for a comic book, anyway.

For instance, Betsy Braddock, who was originally a Caucasian, is now Asian due to a lengthy series of events that led to her merging her essence with the body of Kwannon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

Newp. Doctor Who and Star Wars teaches us that everyone in the universe has a brittish accent! ;P

Not everyone in Star Wars has a British accent. Luke, Leia, Han, Padme, Mace, Darth Maul and Akakin/Vader all have "American" accents. So did Boba Fett in the original versions of ESB and ROTJ. Due to the prequels and Special Editions of those movies, he now has a New Zealand accent (which is definitely NOT British). And of course, Yoda has a Muppet accent.

My favorite explanation for most of them miraculously speaking English in Star Wars is that they aren't. They're speaking Basic, which is a standardized common language in that universe, that is then "translated" into English for us, the English-speaking viewers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSymbiote

Could Iron Fist be Chinese???

I don't think it would work if Danny Rand was Chinese. The whole idea behind the character is that he's a white kid who earned the mantle of the Iron Fist in order to avenge his father's death. Someone of Asian descent being a master of martial arts? Rather stereotypical (not to mention already covered by other heroes and villains in the MU).

Quote:

Originally Posted by warmachine6

i think all the main superheros should be normal race
but others like hemidall , Moreau (TRIVIA the actor Idris Elba plays both these characters !!! ) can be different races im not 2 fused really

I would have an issue with Heimdall being anything other than Nordic in the comic universe. In the movieverse, it's ok since they explained that the Asgardians were not actual gods in the traditional sense, but a race of beings with highly-advanced science that appeared to be magic to the ancient Norsemen. Thus, they could be a more diverse group of people.

But in the comics, it drew Thor's supporting cast directly from Norse mythology and most of the Asgardians in that are naturally portrayed as being of Nordic descent. It would be the same thing as making Zeus a Native American.

[MegaPrime33]

I never liked MCD as the Kingpin. It was either his acting or the way he was written, but that was not the Kingpin. Obviously they chose him for his size, which would be close to accurate, but the portrayal was terrible. If he acted more like the Kingpin in comics or even in Spiderman ANimated, I would have accepted it.

[TheSymbiote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaPrime33

I never liked MCD as the Kingpin. It was either his acting or the way he was written, but that was not the Kingpin. Obviously they chose him for his size, which would be close to accurate, but the portrayal was terrible. If he acted more like the Kingpin in comics or even in Spiderman ANimated, I would have accepted it.

What about a bald John Goodman? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebleshot

I don't think it would work if Danny Rand was Chinese. The whole idea behind the character is that he's a white kid who earned the mantle of the Iron Fist in order to avenge his father's death. Someone of Asian descent being a master of martial arts? Rather stereotypical (not to mention already covered by other heroes and villains in the MU).
.

We didn't think of that lol

[synapse17]

I love MCD but I agree. Maybe it was the fact that the whole movie was so bad in every-way that it brought him down with it. But he just seemed more like a thug than a mob boss. I like the idea of John Goodman. Anyone seen the movie Red State? He can really dominate a scene.

[Crazy Jetty]

Oh yeah, John Goodman is a hell of an actor. And he could be damned terrifying, too.

[Pros From Dover]

Honestly, the only time it bothers me is when they make a change that fundamentally changes who the character is.

Ripcord from GI Joe: Pissed me off. Loved the character as a kid and he wasn't a loudmouthed punk in the comics. I don't care what color his skin is, they ruined that character for me.

Kingpin for Daredevil: I didn't like it at first, but though it was ok in the end.

Nick Fury: Yes I am WELL aware that this is the Ultimate Fury, so don't bother pointing that out to me. And I like him. But I grew up with Jim Steranko's Nick Fury and associated mind blowing art. If you don't know what that is, you're missing out on true comic history. I'm not sure they could have found someone decent to play the non-Ultimate Fury after the Hoff screwed the pooch on his take of him.

Heimdall from Thor: Poof that race doesn't matter. In my mind Idris Elba owns Heimdall from now until Ragnarök.

You can't cast a white guy as Black Panther and expect to pull it off. That completely changes who and what that character is. Nor Captain America, he is the stereotypical skinny string bean white bread kid. Anything else doesnt work.
Fishburne as Perry White? Yeah, I can totally see that working perfectly.
Spider man? He could be pink with purple polka dots. The franchise lost me after SM3.

[jmo]

The kingpin switch worked for me. I like Duncan(I think that's his name), but @1st I didn't like fury switching to a black actor even though I Like jackson a lot( and eventually worked for me). The problem I have is the aftermath from that decision. Are we to ignore the fact that since the 40's with howling commandos that fury was a white guy? I mean, I don't even know what to do w/ my white fury figures. Do I pretend that they are just shield scrubs or do I continue to think that he's the fury I'm going with while my Jackson fury figure which is totally bad assed, is now the shield scrub??? did marvel even try to explain this why fury went from being white to black? either in the comics or wherever? I'M SO CONFUSED. please help me to make sense in my action figure world.

[FancyPants]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pros From Dover

Honestly, the only time it bothers me is when they make a change that fundamentally changes who the character is.

Ripcord from GI Joe: Pissed me off. Loved the character as a kid and he wasn't a loudmouthed punk in the comics. I don't care what color his skin is, they ruined that character for me.

Kingpin for Daredevil: I didn't like it at first, but though it was ok in the end.

Nick Fury: Yes I am WELL aware that this is the Ultimate Fury, so don't bother pointing that out to me. And I like him. But I grew up with Jim Steranko's Nick Fury and associated mind blowing art. If you don't know what that is, you're missing out on true comic history. I'm not sure they could have found someone decent to play the non-Ultimate Fury after the Hoff screwed the pooch on his take of him.

Heimdall from Thor: Poof that race doesn't matter. In my mind Idris Elba owns Heimdall from now until Ragnarök.

You can't cast a white guy as Black Panther and expect to pull it off. That completely changes who and what that character is. Nor Captain America, he is the stereotypical skinny string bean white bread kid. Anything else doesnt work.
Fishburne as Perry White? Yeah, I can totally see that working perfectly.
Spider man? He could be pink with purple polka dots. The franchise lost me after SM3.

I think sean penn would make a great t'challa

Especially in his spicolli days

[BAD MOON]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSymbiote

Race changes we would be ok with
Hawkman and Hawkgirl could be black or Egyptian looking
Raven could be Asian
Could Iron Fist be Chinese???

Also does anyone else think Dwayne Johnson would be a good actor to play Drax in the Guardians movie, or is it just us? Lol

the rock might be a good choice, though i've always pictured the current incarnation of drax to be vin diesel. i think vin would be perfect choice with the voice to match.

i think that how a character is created is how they should be portayed.
i wouldn't want to see a white or mexican black panther. i'd rather have old school steranko nick fury rather than sam jackson fury. if the real problem is a lack of ethnic characters, then more ethnic characters should be created and promoted to diversify the playing field. same with gender.

i think that if they had just said that the sam jackson fury was the son of nick fury all along it would have appeased people on boths sides of the fence. that's what they're going for currently in the 616 mu, but nick fury sr. gave up the last of his infinity formula which points to them phasing him out instead of using him side-by-side. though no one ever quite ages in the marvel universe haha.