[CMIII]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Well you know, DC is in reboot mode. Mattel is just following suit by rebooting their lines every year.

There are parts of DC's Reboot that started out good but went bad. It's nice having some of Images characters, I like Simon Baz, and the first 21 Green Lantern Line comics were a very engrossing story

[trebleshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIII

It'll become Bait and switch if they produce them and sell them but only to those who took the MOTU offer

But why in the world would Mattel do that? That makes absolutely no sense, unless you're just being derisive. Ultimately any company's primary goal is to make money. If they are able to produce any of those figures, why limit availability to a specific group that may or may not want them? Mattel obviously had a hard enough time selling them to the general public/DC fans. Why make the situation even worse?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

But...Bait-and-Switch IS fraud. But I see where you are coming from.

Yeah, bait-and-switch is a specific type of fraud. It's like whiskey and bourbon. All bourbons are whiskeys but not all whiskeys are bourbons. Or something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Well Scott claims they have to have the figures for a sub planned and tool'd two years in advance in order to ensure they come out mostly on time.

That's not just Scott talking out his ass, either. The industry standard is about a one- to two-year turnaround for a given toy. That's going from concept sketch to finished product on the shelf at retail.

The thing is, with a subscription service, Mattel does not have to design and tool all the figures at the same time like they would with a standard retail wave. They can stagger the tooling across a year and know that they will sell enough of the finished figures to pay for it all. Or if the sub fails, Mattel knows they won't have enough and can stop the development cycle before they put any more money into it.

So yeah, Scott may have known all of the figures they were planning on doing for the subs, but not necessarily if they'd be able to get to them all. That also goes back to the idea that most companies are very reluctant to talk about anything planned a year or more in the future.

The question with the DCUC sub is, how far along were they with each of the figures that got announced? Was it far enough along that the only way to get back their investment is to get them to retail somehow?

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIII

There are parts of DC's Reboot that started out good but went bad. It's nice having some of Images characters, I like Simon Baz, and the first 21 Green Lantern Line comics were a very engrossing story

The best things out of the N52 have been JLDark, Swamp Thing, and Aquaman.

The thing is, all of those could have been done WITHOUT rebooting the universe. Everything in Batman and GL were done without rebooting their stories, making it one of the most convoluted half boots ever.

I mean, they are literally rerebooting characters. Chesire has been rebooted twice. Now Lobo is getting rerebooted. It does not make any friggin sense.

[CMIII]

If you look at most of the figures they are just the same bucks they've used in the past with a New costume, Hair, Head, Etc. I would suspect they were far enough along in the tooling of the first 4 and Doomsday we will likely see them. They had Damien Robin tooled for sometime.

Shazam! has been rebooted more times then I can count I just Identify him by who drew him or his race. 1941 - 1985 C.C. Beck and DC pre Crisis, 1986 -1988 black version, 1988 DC Post Crisis, Jeff Smith, Alex Ross, Freddy version, and N52

[Boy Blunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

The best things out of the N52 have been JLDark, Swamp Thing, and Aquaman.

My wife was big into the N52 when it started out. She was buying Teen Titans, Supergirl, Justice League, Wonder Woman, and World's Finest.

But since then, she only still buys World's Finest. Supergirl and Wonder Woman both got derailed when they sacrificed characterization for romantic subplots, Titans devolved into a mess of Trigon stuff and "suddenly Tim can have any woman, any time, anywhere, just by smiling at them", and Justice League required too many other books to be bought just to keep up.

Good jorb, DC.

To make this relevant, we did buy the Trinity in their N52 designs, but mostly because we didn't have any of them yet, and after buying Bats, it seemed natural to get Supes and WW to match. Plus, their shininess matches CIE Wally West and Wave 20 Hal Jordan.

[CMIII]

The only New 52 characters figures I have are Savage Hawkman and SDCC Shazam

[Tiberius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

The best things out of the N52 have been JLDark, Swamp Thing, and Aquaman.

The thing is, all of those could have been done WITHOUT rebooting the universe. Everything in Batman and GL were done without rebooting their stories, making it one of the most convoluted half boots ever.

I mean, they are literally rerebooting characters. Chesire has been rebooted twice. Now Lobo is getting rerebooted. It does not make any friggin sense.

And Animal Man. Those 4 are the only good titles. Glad I am not the one one who thinks so lol.

[CMIII]

I stopped Aquaman after the Throne of Atlantis but I am not really an Aquaman fan so.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

And Animal Man. Those 4 are the only good titles. Glad I am not the one one who thinks so lol.

I haven't read Animal Man outside of the first issue, but since it connects to Swamp Thing, I need to. It also just happens that my local library has both volumes in, so I can check them out that way instead of buying them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Blunder

My wife was big into the N52 when it started out. She was buying Teen Titans, Supergirl, Justice League, Wonder Woman, and World's Finest.

But since then, she only still buys World's Finest. Supergirl and Wonder Woman both got derailed when they sacrificed characterization for romantic subplots, Titans devolved into a mess of Trigon stuff and "suddenly Tim can have any woman, any time, anywhere, just by smiling at them", and Justice League required too many other books to be bought just to keep up.

Good jorb, DC.

To make this relevant, we did buy the Trinity in their N52 designs, but mostly because we didn't have any of them yet, and after buying Bats, it seemed natural to get Supes and WW to match. Plus, their shininess matches CIE Wally West and Wave 20 Hal Jordan.

My g/f reads Suicide Squad, but she just picked up the first two Teen Titans trades that came out. She was reading Batman & Robin but dropped it the moment they killed Damian off because that was the selling point of the comic for her. I gazed through the Teen Titans issues as I was not impressed with the first issue (I bought all 52 #1s in 2011) and seeing how it is Trony Titans, I am glad I did not pursue the book. Who knows, maybe the writing has gotten better, but I looked at the new Raven and I do not like her. She is one of my top favorite DC heroes but this N52 version does not even resemble Raven at all.

Of course, aside from the ones I mentioned earlier, I was enjoying Voodoo, Ressurection Man, and Demon Knights, but those have all been canceled. I did also like All-Star Western, but I was getting tired of Hex being in Gotham after 5 issues so I dropped it and will pick up the trades at some point. I liked Wonder Woman until the whole wedding issue (I think that was 7 or 8), gave up on JL after they defeated Darkseid, New Guardians decided to kill Kyle's character development, so I dropped that, and I gave up on everything else after the first or second issue.

[Tiberius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

I haven't read Animal Man outside of the first issue, but since it connects to Swamp Thing, I need to. It also just happens that my local library has both volumes in, so I can check them out that way instead of buying them.



My g/f reads Suicide Squad, but she just picked up the first two Teen Titans trades that came out. She was reading Batman & Robin but dropped it the moment they killed Damian off because that was the selling point of the comic for her. I gazed through the Teen Titans issues as I was not impressed with the first issue (I bought all 52 #1s in 2011) and seeing how it is Trony Titans, I am glad I did not pursue the book. Who knows, maybe the writing has gotten better, but I looked at the new Raven and I do not like her. She is one of my top favorite DC heroes but this N52 version does not even resemble Raven at all.

Of course, aside from the ones I mentioned earlier, I was enjoying Voodoo, Ressurection Man, and Demon Knights, but those have all been canceled. I did also like All-Star Western, but I was getting tired of Hex being in Gotham after 5 issues so I dropped it and will pick up the trades at some point. I liked Wonder Woman until the whole wedding issue (I think that was 7 or 8), gave up on JL after they defeated Darkseid, New Guardians decided to kill Kyle's character development, so I dropped that, and I gave up on everything else after the first or second issue.

Animal Man is well worth it =D. My gf reads Catwoman and Worlds Finest. She's 3 issues behind or so though.

[CMIII]

I stuck with Justice League only because of the SHAZAM! back story I cannot wait till he gets his own title in October

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Animal Man is well worth it =D. My gf reads Catwoman and Worlds Finest. She's 3 issues behind or so though.

Yeah, I gave up on Catwoman after the first issue when her and Batman fucked. No thank you. I don't need pointless sex scenes in my comics. If I want to watch sex, I can find a porno on a million different websites.

[Tiberius]

Hardly a porno hahahaha. Would be interesting though... I think it was only that once though.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Hardly a porno hahahaha. Would be interesting though... I think it was only that once though.

If it was, cool, but I read Catwoman after reading the Batman issue where he fucked the news reporter AND Red Hood and the Outlaws with having to see Starfire now be an intergalactic slut, so I was pretty much annoyed with the sex scenes by that point.

[CMIII]

this is Jim Lee's influence

[trebleshot]

Sounds more like a daytime drama than a comic book.

Back on topic, I think Mattel would be silly if they don't continue with N52 figures. Assuming they can get retailers to carry them anymore.

[CMIII]

I really want the Imiage Comic characters as figures Grifter, Voodoo, Stormwatch,

[Boy Blunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIII

I really want the Imiage Comic characters as figures Grifter, Voodoo, Stormwatch,

I kinda dug Grifter back in ye olde WildC.A.T.s days, but my interest was recently renewed by, of all things, the Flashpoint animated movie. I wanted a figure so bad once that happened.

So, hey, Flashpoint turned out to be good for something.

[CMIII]

Grifter is like the single best DC pick up in years

[Dr Kain]

You know, I never understood the love for Grifter in the 90s. He was just Image's version of Deadpool, who was already a rip off of Deathstroke.

My favorites in WildCATS were Voodoo and Warblade.

[CMIII]

In the 90's I think it had to do with his more Antiheroness then Deadpool, Deadshot, or Deathstroke. Grifter is the Everyday man not really a Mercenary for higher why he eventually joined Images Big team. I have to admit I only ever followed DC and Image it's too bad DC didn't get Savage Dragon, Shadow Hawk, and Spawn. N52 Grifter is now an alien fighter who was nearly abducted and now has the ability to see them. He had a hellified fight with Green Arrow

[trebleshot]

It was a 90's thing. Anti-heroes were the IT thing in most teen and young adult media. It may have been a backlash to the 70's and 80's where there was a clear division between good and bad and you were one or the other. It was in the comics, shows, movies and of course, the toys.

So all the comic publishers were pushing how "EXTREME!!!1!" they were by either creating anti-hero characters or pumping up their existing ones. Then they also took traditionally good guys and made them GRITTY and DARK like Azrael's turn as Batman.

At least with Deadpool, he was a bit of an in-joke when he was created. Aside from his abilities and character, his name and alias are both puns on Deathstroke:

Deathstroke = Slade Wilson
Deadpool = Wade Wilson
Death = Dead
Stroke = Pool (stroke being a movement you would do in a pool. Wade also references pool as another movement you would do in it).

[CMIII]

If you look at all the heroes and Villains that appeared in the 90's both DC and Marvel were chasing Image. I hate to admit it but Jim Lee became the man for a while. This is the Era of Lobo, Grifter, Azreal, Wolverine, Deadpool, Spawn, Shadow Hawk, and Punisher as well as Marvels 2099 lines. As it sits we are in the worst comic book time Print Media is dying thanks to computers, Ipads, Kindles, and other Ereaders. Who wants to read a comic book anyway when the same characters are in Movies every 3 months

Retailers actually carry them damn I must live in the only area that they don't

[Boy Blunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

You know, I never understood the love for Grifter in the 90s. He was just Image's version of Deadpool, who was already a rip off of Deathstroke.

My favorites in WildCATS were Voodoo and Warblade.

Likewise, they were above Grifter for me. But, to be fair, Grifter wasn't really based on Deadpool, except maybe the mask. The two didn't really share any personality or backstory similarities (other than being involved in clandestine government organizations), and snarking gunmen were a dime-a-dozen back then. Personally, I just dug Grifter's visual design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebleshot

At least with Deadpool, he was a bit of an in-joke when he was created. Aside from his abilities and character, his name and alias are both puns on Deathstroke:

Deathstroke = Slade Wilson
Deadpool = Wade Wilson
Death = Dead
Stroke = Pool (stroke being a movement you would do in a pool. Wade also references pool as another movement you would do in it).

While the Wade - Slade thing is accurate, I don't know if the comparison between their codenames is. Mostly because a dead pool is an actual thing (a gambling scenario where bets are made on which one of a given group of people is going to die first/last), which was used in Wade's backstory as the inspiration for taking his name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIII

If you look at all the heroes and Villains that appeared in the 90's both DC and Marvel were chasing Image. I hate to admit it but Jim Lee became the man for a while. This is the Era of Lobo, Grifter, Azreal, Wolverine, Deadpool, Spawn, Shadow Hawk, and Punisher as well as Marvels 2099 lines. As it sits we are in the worst comic book time Print Media is dying thanks to computers, Ipads, Kindles, and other Ereaders. Who wants to read a comic book anyway when the same characters are in Movies every 3 months

Um, there's a ton of comics not involving characters showcased in feature films these days, and even then, there's a world of difference between the stories told in each medium. Even with "accepted backstory" in the films, there's a difference between, say, the Marvel Cinematic Universe (which builds off of five years worth of movies) versus Marvel Comics (which comes with over 50 years of stories, characters, and canon).

I believe the worst time for comic books was following the Late 80s/Early 90s collector boom, when fans were turned off from the market saturation of gimmicks (variant issues, massive crossover events, lenticular foil-embossed holographic pop-up blacklight sauteed scratch-and-sniff die-cut wet-nap covers, etc etc). Keep in mind, that's also when things like the Marvel Bankruptcy took place.

We're in a better place, both in terms of the medium, and in terms of storytelling. As a print medium, comic sales might be down, but the industry as a whole isn't suffering as much as you may think. The New 52 may be a big bucket of suck for the most part, but it still got people interested in comics again, and there have been some good stories to come out of it.

[trebleshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Blunder

While the Wade - Slade thing is accurate, I don't know if the comparison between their codenames is. Mostly because a dead pool is an actual thing (a gambling scenario where bets are made on which one of a given group of people is going to die first/last), which was used in Wade's backstory as the inspiration for taking his name.

I was just musing on the similarities between their code names. I'm quite aware of the term "dead pool", Wade's backstory and how it relates to his code name. I wasn't trying to imply that the code names were done on purpose, and my apologies if anyone misunderstood. But the Wade/Slade part was done deliberately by Nicieza and has been confirmed by the writer.

Liefeld, naturally, denies ripping off DC. He also thinks he's a good artist. *shrug*