[CLASSIFIED]

I think it is going to be Kwinn.

[Reaver Strike]

Kwinn is supposed be released in the 30th Ann line. I've seen pics.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaver Strike

Kwinn is supposed be released in the 30th Ann line. I've seen pics.

According to the most recent Q & A Kwinn will NOT be part of the 30th line and they are "looking" for a way to release him.

My guess is that he is the 13th sub fig.

[Reaver Strike]

Have there been any more news on what the cost will be for the subscription and exactly what we get other than the figs?

[Jmacq1]

It won't be Kwinn.

If Kwinn were the 13th figure, Hasbro wouldn't "be looking" for a place to release him. He'd basically be in production for his Club order now.

If Kwinn were the 13th figure, the Club would have had to have "bought/rented" the Kwinn tooling from Hasbro before Hasbro even knew the Joe movie was being bumped up (which is what bumped Kwinn off the schedule). The timelines don't match up.

Hasbro also isn't going to give that much new tooling to the Club before they've gotten a return on their investment.

If it were Kwinn, the Club would be complete freaking idiots not to advertise that he's coming as part of the subscription, because his presence would likely cause more Joe collectors to buy subscriptions. No sensible business is going to avoid advertising a mostly-new figure of a long-demanded (among many Joe fans) character.

(For the record, Hasbro and the G.I. Joe Collector's Club are NOT one and the same. The Collector's Club is a separate company that works closely with Hasbro (and is "officially endorsed" by them), but is NOT part of Hasbro.)

It ain't Kwinn.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

It won't be Kwinn.

I can say with 100% certainty that it won't be Duke.

Who do you think it will be?

[miketime]

I think it is going to be Dice. How could they make a Slice with out Dice?

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketime

I think it is going to be Dice. How could they make a Slice with out Dice?

I think Dice is going to be offered if you continue the sub.

Given the reaction to Big Boa, I think they really need to hit a homerun with the 13th figure.

A lot of Joe fans wouldn't be able to not get the sub if Kwinn were the 13th figure.

[miketime]

I could care less about Quinn. After seeing him at the last Joe Convention it would be a shame if he went the rout of the Data Viper. I wanted to see the club expand on there modern era style foreign exclusives line. Something to tie into the convention stuff. This club offering is 50/50 to me. Even at $20 a fig I don't think want it for the hand full of figs I actually like. If I can get a MOTUC for $20 a 4 inch fig at that price point makes no sense no matter how low the production run. I don't want to depend on having to sell the less desirable figs.

[CLASSIFIED]

I'll be getting a sub regardless of who the 13th figure is, I just think Kwinn is going to be the 13th figure.

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

I think Dice is going to be offered if you continue the sub.

Given the reaction to Big Boa, I think they really need to hit a homerun with the 13th figure.

A lot of Joe fans wouldn't be able to not get the sub if Kwinn were the 13th figure.

Except that they're NOT revealing who the 13th figure is, so once again they're leaving "would be buyers" on the table if Kwinn were the 13th figure. You don't make the 13th figure the "absolute best" out of the set, because you want to use your "best" figure to sell subscriptions in the first place (in this case, probably Big Boa). Otherwise you risk not getting enough subscriptions in the first place, making the whole project a failure.

The 13th figure will be "good" but it will also be in keeping with the rest of the offerings: A repaint/kitbash with maybe a few new parts (particularly the head) but not much. It hopefully/probably will be up there with the "better" figures from the subscription but it's not going to be something that will completely and utterly blow people away.

Some of the possibilities are:

1. Slice - I tend to agree that Slice would be a better "hook" for a second subscription or as a membership figure next year, but he is also a solid possibility for the 13th figure, since two of the other figures in the collection have ties to him (Dice and Sure-Fire). Either way, the indications are very strong that we'll be getting Slice one way or another...the question is how/when at this point.

2. Cobra Mortal - You could substitute almost any number of foreign repaints into this slot, but Cobra Mortal is one of the most prominent and a figure the Club has done before. Either way, he's an easy figure to put together, especially with the club already using most of the tooling that would be needed for Tan Grunt. Plus he's different and well-known enough among hardcore fans that most probably wouldn't be disappointed by having him, but also wouldn't consider him "absolutely critical" to their collection.

3. Slaughter's Marauders Footloose - He'd fit in with the upcoming 7-pack, and is a simple repaint of a figure they're already making. You could also substitute almost any character that's a member of a sub-team that hasn't been made in sub-team form yet (Tiger Force Tripwire, Roadblock, Bazooka, etc...), with the caveat that I (and others) suspect that Tiger Force will be getting updated in a Con set.

4. Crimson Shadow Guard - I've seen this brought up on other forums as an easily-made figure that Hasbro had planned but got canceled. A possibility, but I don't think the 13th figure will be a troop builder. More likely the Club would crank out a squad or so and include them as part of a con set.

5. Night Force Falcon - One of the few canceled figures that hasn't seen the light of day yet. Another reasonably good possibility, though hopefully they'll piggyback with Hasbro and use the Slaughter's Marauders pack headsculpt with the removable beret if they go this route.

6. A "miscellaneous" repaint - Something like Tan Clutch or Red-Pads Grand Slam. Easily made, but probably not quite "good" enough for the 13th slot. These would be a major letdown. The same could be said of "corrected" versions of some of the characters that were put out in the 25th (particularly "O13" characters that had notable inaccuracies or didn't get unique headsculpts).

7. An unmade comic character that's NOT Kwinn - Someone like Ninja Apprentice Billy (yes, the Club has said he's not coming this go-round, but that could be a smokescreen), or "Shooter" who could likely be made with a new headsculpt and otherwise existing parts. Billy would be borderline, simply because he'd be another "subscription seller" if the figure was done well, but someone like Shooter with a much smaller "cult following" would be appropriate while still likely providing a cool figure for those that subscribed.

8. Crimson Twins in Business Suits - Someone on another site pointed out that those fancy new mailer-boxes the Club has are designed for two figures, and that may indicate that the "13th figure" could end up being a "13th and 14th figure." Admittedly it's flimsy circumstantial evidence, but putting out the Crimson Twins with the SDCC Destro body mold would be an easy kitbash and a long-desired look for those two characters. Again, though, I think this pair would better serve as "Subscription sellers" for next year's go-round if it should happen.

I'd rate all of these possibilities as far more likely than Kwinn (though the good news is that Hasbro has confirmed that tooling was made for Kwinn, unlike the Data Viper, so Kwinn almost certainly WILL come out at some point...Hasbro will want a return on their investment).

[miketime]

Wow nice run down Jmacq1. For me it all depends on when the sub goes up. I'm already in for MOTUC and Club Lion Force. IDK how much more my wallet can take next year. I think they are setting them selves up for failure or an extremely low run of figs.

Just look at the convention turn out. There are easily over 300 hard core Joe fans that travel all over the country & buy at least one of everything they offer at the convention. They have 600 to 1000 units of those exclusives and they usually sell out by the third morning of the convention before the public even has a chance to get in. If they only make as many sub figs as they get orders for I would guess that # to be between 1,000 & 2,000. I just don't see casual joe fans who are not already members of the club joing up for this hodge podge collection offering. Your better off getting the various 7 packs out there. At least they all go together. Nothing in this sub screams must have to me & a few of them I could care less about.

We're going to be looking at $20-$25 per fig. Any guess at what the secondary market value on these figs will be? A 500 unit run of carded Dial-Tone cost $25 and now sells for $125 even though the club gave away loose ones to this years members. The most popular figs from the box sets can run $100 loose. Even if I get a sub I would have a hard time opening them.

My other guess for the 13th fig is Modern Era Joe Colton in Action Force gear. They need something to tie in the vintage Modern Era stuff they have been doing.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

Except that they're NOT revealing who the 13th figure is.

I'd rate all of these possibilities as far more likely than Kwinn (though the good news is that Hasbro has confirmed that tooling was made for Kwinn, unlike the Data Viper, so Kwinn almost certainly WILL come out at some point...Hasbro will want a return on their investment).

They aren't?

That's kind of stupid if they aren't, because it seems to me that making the 13th figure Kwinn, then letting everyone know would be a good way of boosting sales, don't you agree?

As to your last point... I agree. It's part of the reason I think Kwinn will be the 13th figure.

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

They aren't?

That's kind of stupid if they aren't, because it seems to me that making the 13th figure Kwinn, then letting everyone know would be a good way of boosting sales, don't you agree?

Sure..if Kwinn were the 13th figure...which he's not. The club has said they're not going to reveal the 13th figure until it shows up in peoples' mailboxes. If Kwinn were part of the subscription, the Club would have advertised him. They haven't, so he's not. I refuse to believe they're that stupid.

Quote:

As to your last point... I agree. It's part of the reason I think Kwinn will be the 13th figure.

You really seem to miss the key point that the Club is not Hasbro. If the Club sells Kwinn as part of the subscription, then Hasbro is not getting a return on their tens of thousands of dollars in tooling investment, because the money from the subscription goes to the Club, not to Hasbro. The Club can't afford to outright buy that tooling from Hasbro, or even to "rent" it for the amount of money Hasbro would need to "break even."

So no, once again, Kwinn will not be the 13th figure, because HASBRO needs to make money off the mold before the Club does. He has a heck of a lot more new tooling than say, an Iron Klaw, so it's highly unlikely they'd make the same kind of "exception to the rule" they did for Iron Klaw's tooling (which was basically just a new head and harness) and give up on making money on the Kwinn tooling by handing it over to the Club. ESPECIALLY since the Club likely had to have their "list" of characters (including the "mystery 13th") approved by Hasbro before Hasbro even knew for sure that Kwinn was going to be "postponed." Once again, as I said in my original post, the timelines do not match up, making Kwinn as the 13th figure virtually impossible.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

You really seem to miss the key point that the Club is not Hasbro.

No I don't.

I just choose to believe Kwinn is the 13th figure.

Any number of arrangements could have been made between Hasbro and the Club in order to facilitate Kwinn being the 13th figure if you are willing to think outside the box.

I completely understand the position you have taken and why you have taken it, but I still think Kwinn will be the 13th figure.

Nothing you can post will get me to think otherwise until that 13th figure shows up in my mailbox or the Club reveals otherwise.

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

No I don't.

I just choose to believe Kwinn is the 13th figure.

Any number of arrangements could have been made between Hasbro and the Club in order to facilitate Kwinn being the 13th figure if you are willing to think outside the box.

I completely understand the position you have taken and why you have taken it, but I still think Kwinn will be the 13th figure.

Nothing you can post will get me to think otherwise until that 13th figure shows up in my mailbox or the Club reveals otherwise.

I'd be perfectly willing to "think outside the box" if Hasbro had a serious history of "thinking outside the box" in combination with "throwing away money." The thing is...they don't.

I don't understand how anyone can honestly think it's Kwinn when all evidence, logic, and reason points in entirely different directions.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

I'd be perfectly willing to "think outside the box" if Hasbro had a serious history of "thinking outside the box" in combination with "throwing away money." The thing is...they don't.

I don't understand how anyone can honestly think it's Kwinn when all evidence, logic, and reason points in entirely different directions.

Hasbro wouldn't be "throwing away money" if they recieved a cut of potential sales in exchange for allowing the Club to borrow the Kwinn tooling for the 13th figure.

Or hey, here's one for you; what if Kwinn turned out to be arctic Kwinn as he appeared in one of the comic stories and the only new tooling the Club borrowed was the head and the rest of Kwinn was a repainted Arctic Snake Eyes?

Certainly you should be able to accept the plausibility of that scenario given they are using Renegades Law's vest with Sure Fire?

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

Hasbro wouldn't be "throwing away money" if they recieved a cut of potential sales in exchange for allowing the Club to borrow the Kwinn tooling for the 13th figure.

A cut of what sales? The entire subscription or just your hypothetical, not-going-to-be-advertised Kwinn that won't be available for sale as an individual figure? How much do you think the subscription is going to cost, when you bear in mind that we're looking at a potential subscribership of at absolute best a couple or three thousand (probably less), vs. the tens of thousands of dollars that an extensively newly-tooled figure like Kwinn costs? The Club would basically have to give ALL their money from the subscriptions to Hasbro in order for Hasbro to not be losing money on the proposition, which defeats the purpose of the subscription service to begin with, unless the Club plans on charging, say, $40 or $50 per figure (they don't).

So no, once again, your scenario doesn't make any business sense.

Furthermore, if Kwinn is the 13th figure - why is the club not advertising him? Is it your position that they're simply utterly incompetent and stupid? Because that would really be the only excuse for tossing aside the potential sales that advertising him would garner.

Quote:

Or hey, here's one for you; what if Kwinn turned out to be arctic Kwinn as he appeared in one of the comic stories and the only new tooling the Club borrowed was the head and the rest of Kwinn was a repainted Arctic Snake Eyes?

Certainly you should be able to accept the plausibility of that scenario given they are using Renegades Law's vest with Sure Fire?

No, because a vest/accessory is not a headsculpt. Furthermore, the Law and Order figures for Hasbro were likely produced months ago, meaning Hasbro was "already done" (IE had received a return on their investment) with what they needed the vest for before the Club got to "piggyback" off of it. Kwinn, by comparison, has not made it to production yet...just tooling (because if he was fully produced, Hasbro would be releasing him "on time").

[CLASSIFIED]

Law and Kwinn were revealed at the same time.

If Law's vest is fair game, then so is Kwinn's head.

I think Kwinn is going to be the 13th figure. I also think that despite what Hasbro has said, the club will reveal that Kwinn is the 13th figure, or just who the 13th figure will be, before they make the sibscription service available.

I also believe Kwinn won't be the only figure that uses the tooling created for Kwinn, so the Club releasing Kwinn as the 13th figure doesn't exclude Hasbro making money off of the tooling in subsequent releases of the part.

As part of my thesis for Kwinn being the 13th figure while dismantling your assertion that he will not, the Club would reveal that Kwinn is the 13th figure before subscriptions are taken. In exchange for allowing the Club to borrow the tooling for Kwinn for the sub, the Club would give back Hasbro whatever they would have made selling 1 figure to a retailer for every subscription sold.

Hasbro can subsequently re-release Kwinn in whatever fasion they choose afterwards. No harm, no fowl.

The main difference between the two stances on the matter at hand we have taken is that I've prefaced my position as what I think, while you've stated your position as a matter of fact. In this sense alone you are either wrong, or deceptive.

If you are wrong, it is because you really don't know whether or noy Kwinn will be the 13th figure. You just don't think that he will be for the reasons you have stated.

If you do have insider knowledge, that is to say; you actually do know that Kwinn will not be the 13th figure because you either work for Hasbro, the Club, or know someone who does, then you are being deceptive. You are hiding your actual knowledge behind arguments in support of a belief as a statement of fact.

So which is it? Wrong or deceptive?

[Joe Moore]

Posts removed. If people can't have a discussion without resorting to insults, then this thread will simply be closed.

[tlasjr]

So how does the subscription work? You pay like a $40 membership and then can buy figures for $25 a pop? Do you have to buy everyfigure?

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlasjr

So how does the subscription work? You pay like a $40 membership and then can buy figures for $25 a pop? Do you have to buy everyfigure?

They haven't really explained exactly how it will work, but you have to subscribe for all 12 regular figures in order to get the 13th figure.

[fosterlager]

I don't think it will be Kwinn. Hasbro will want to sell him themselves, at a much higher production run.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fosterlager

I don't think it will be Kwinn. Hasbro will want to sell him themselves, at a much higher production run.

If he isn't the 13th sub figure than I bet he'll be part of a 7 pack/ online exclusive.

I almost feel like retailers didn't wanr him and that's why he isn't slated for release before the next movie.

[Steve Jobs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketime

I could care less about Quinn. After seeing him at the last Joe Convention it would be a shame if he went the rout of the Data Viper. I wanted to see the club expand on there modern era style foreign exclusives line. Something to tie into the convention stuff. This club offering is 50/50 to me. Even at $20 a fig I don't think want it for the hand full of figs I actually like. If I can get a MOTUC for $20 a 4 inch fig at that price point makes no sense no matter how low the production run. I don't want to depend on having to sell the less desirable figs.

I have to agree with this. While Kwinn would be cool, he's not a must-have. Then again few of the others in the sub are to me either. Some more of the foreign versions in 25th style would be cool though. Funskool blue snake eyes comes to mind. Wait that's a snake eyes figure.