[Kaewin]

How do you think it is going? I like what Fraction has done but I think he goes overboard where every story arc has to a complete threat of tearing down all Stark is about. I know stories have to be interesting but could he do something no on the edge of disaster. Can't smaller stories be told or are they all events of their own. I know Tony did have that drink during Fear Itself and yes it is going to haunt them but all the villains are coming at the same time to overwhelm him. Yes he needs to be larger that life but sometimes less is more. They could do a bit more of a concentrated kind of things. And damn I am tired of the Hammer bitches and Detroit Crap. They were old the first time why do they have to be all over the place, give them a break.

I almost feel like some dumbass has brought Osborn to bother everyone again.


Oh wait Bendis has.

[Jason Abbadon]

I hate Fracton's run- Tony has new armor but we never see it do jack shit as Tony's been punked by every loser rom Doc Ock up- really!
He's not one ONE single fight since Seige.
Fuckin' weak is what it is.

Now they're making Bethany Cabe a bitch and second string to Pepper?
Please.

Tony is done right by Bendis, Brubaker and everyone else, but sold out in his own title.

[bmorr]

Im kinda liking whats going on with this series. I like his rogues gallery and I see them as getting their long awaited revenge against stark thanks to the mandarin. I also like the Splitlip character they added. I just hope they tone down that annoying swearing thing he does. Very distracting to read. But the alcohol thing is pretty much retreaded waters in terms of an iron man comic. We've all seen it before and he saves the day like always and noone speaks of it again. I am curious about this new dreadnought robot on the last page of 511. Does it look like the one from tonys dream?

[Jason Abbadon]

maybe it's the same as the dream- that thing looks very War of the Worlds to me.
The art is frating on me after so long too- Detroit Steel looks pretty...low tech...compared with even the armored baddies of the late 80's like Titianium Man or Firepower.

Mostly I hate that there's no payoff in Fracton's stories- lots of build up and no win fir the hero, just backing off or losing outright- even Fear Itself had a barely shown fight and no resoution....that shit is still dragging on.

[Greenskar]

^^ This is unfortunate to hear. I've read all of Fraction's invincible Iron Man from #1-33 including the point one issues and just finished #500 on Marvel Digital and loved it thus far. Sounds like things are going down hill from here?

[bmorr]

nah lol its just jason.

[Jason Abbadon]

No it's not- check the hate on CBR for the book's direction.
Worst of all, they've retconned the incrdibly great Mandarin development of Knaufs' run (Haunted) and made him sorta...I dont know. His 90's version?

Fracton just writes characters with no regard to what's been developed before.

Gotta admit that I loved everything from the first run on this book- all the Eziekel Stane intro stuff kicked add.
Since then, it's been all buildup with no payoff- lots of talking but no action.

And, as an Iron man fan since the 80's, I'll tell you that IM fand WANT o know what a new armor can do- we never got that and since Tony keeps getting pwnd, the suit seems weak as hell too.

I still read the book, but I sure dont pay for it.

[bmorr]

well the suit evolved to the point where he BECAME the iron man. The man and the suit became one. Its a step up from the extremis and modular armors where they were jsut hovering plates that magnetized onto his body. But, im liking this calculating Romulus type character that mandarin has become, messing with stark on a more human level then just shooting each other. Im surprised really that he hasnt bben invited to join osborns little club.

[Jason Abbadon]

It's just not the Mandarin's way- the Mandarin hated that crap when Obadiah stane did it to Tony, why the sudden 180?

And Justine Hammer is suddenly a dumpy woman in her late 40's/early 50's with a Hillary Clinton look- not exactly how she looked as the Crimson Cown in Thunderbolts-
http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//u...imson_Cowl.jpg

Or what about how she was in FEDERAL PRISON for blackmailing world leaders with her Masters Of Evil team.
I know the MU seems ready to forgive super-villiany for no damn reason (see Norman Osborn) but she was locked up on the Raft due to her (now never mentioned) teleportation powers, then broke out by the Hood ...making her an escaped felon.

So, GREAT RESEARCH, FRACTON!
Shit, I giess he does not have internet access or something to check her Wiki page.
(insert jacking off motions with hand while roling eyes in disgust emoticon)

[bmorr]

Seeing as how your a really long term reader I can see where your coming from, but ive only been reading comics full time since like '04. I never knew about any of the stuff you just mentioned. But, to be fair most writers are terrible at doing research and only cherry pick at older continuity.

[Jason Abbadon]

Yes, totally true.
That's why writers get away with recycling stories over and over (that's you Brubaker!).
Readers generally only read comics for like a five year window and new readers come on board as old ones leave...so they keep making #1 issues to lure in new readers intimidated by a book in the #500-600 range.
When I met Tony Bedard, we got to BSing about Green Lantern (he's writing the New Guardians book starring Kyle Rayner).

I asked him a question that has bugged me- can Kyle's ring still make light constructs in any color or even full color interactive holograms?
Blew. Him. Away.
He had no idea that Kyle's ring could do that back when he was the only GL left.

Bedard's a GREAT guy and I can certainly see how a writer cant read a decade of issues before starting a book, but with villians, it's a LOT easier to research, as their appearances are few and far between (except Doom or the Skull or whatever).

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

well the suit evolved to the point where he BECAME the iron man. The man and the suit became one. Its a step up from the extremis and modular armors where they were jsut hovering plates that magnetized onto his body. But, im liking this calculating Romulus type character that mandarin has become, messing with stark on a more human level then just shooting each other. Im surprised really that he hasnt bben invited to join osborns little club.

I'm still kind of wtf about the entire armor basically liquefying around him. I know with extremis it was just the under armor but now its the entire armor? Plus he said the armor cannot add mass rather it can only alter it. While I am unaware as to the extent of these limitations and whether the story has elaborated further, however, I could swear that watching his arm morph into a Cyborg looking cannon sure seemed like adding mass to me. I know its trivial to argue pseudo physics in comics, but that sure seemed like a contradiction to me.

Hah, he's almost like an iron symbiote now.

[Jason Abbadon]

Exactly- that bigass cannon HAD to be additional mass- or he was all hollow like a chocolate easter Bunny...and I wont accept that!

Myabe it's pym particles or imported mass from whereever the Hulk gets his.

What it really is is bad writing. I much prefer the more plausible notion of the undersheath nad external armor.It made it still possible to seperate Tony from the armor too...a key limitation that made Tony interesting.
At this point he might as well be a mutant- all internal powers with no explanations.

[bmorr]

Oh there is one thing that artists do that makes my brain itch when he STILL gets his helemt ripped off during battles. THAT IS HIS GODDAMN SKIN!

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

Exactly- that bigass cannon HAD to be additional mass- or he was all hollow like a chocolate easter Bunny...and I wont accept that!

Myabe it's pym particles or imported mass from whereever the Hulk gets his.

What it really is is bad writing. I much prefer the more plausible notion of the undersheath nad external armor.It made it still possible to seperate Tony from the armor too...a key limitation that made Tony interesting.
At this point he might as well be a mutant- all internal powers with no explanations.

Can we just go back to extremis and instead find a way to not have his systems hacked by skrulls, ultron, hammer or whoever? Extremis armor was and still is my favorite armor and I had hoped they could squeeze more life out of it.

I agree that its bad writing when you create a rule to a character's abilities and then blatantly contradict it shortly thereafter.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

Oh there is one thing that artists do that makes my brain itch when he STILL gets his helemt ripped off during battles. THAT IS HIS GODDAMN SKIN!

In Avengers, an evil Scarlett Witch turned the armor to glass and it shattered off him- Spidey caught him before he went splat on the sidewalk and Tony...re-grew the goddamn armor! Like down for a minute- maybe!

In the .1 issue with Thor, Tony's armor converts to space mode with no mouth and more bulk and he grew two bigass blasters on his forearms!

Er...why did he not do that against Grey Gargoyle?

[bmorr]

Cause comics have no logic lol. Were just in it for the ride. And our 4 dollars.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

Cause comics have no logic lol. Were just in it for the ride. And our 4 dollars.

That's $48 dollars yearly per title- or the cost of a Sentinel per title.


That's why so many of us wait for trades- to see if it's worth reading at all.

[Greenskar]

That was exactly the point I made to a buddy of mine who is still trying in vain to transform me into a single issue collector (as payback for me turning him into a DC Universe 6" collector, haha).

I just read a brief synopsis of the Iron man fear itself events. So Tony makes everyone weapons made out of that magical elf metal that Thor's hammer is made out of along with upgrading his own armor huh? So how the hell does that play out and does he retain the upgrade to his armor after the event?

I thought that idea was cool in Avengers: EMH in the season finale but can't imagine how well it would play out in comics.

[bmorr]

The majic weapons got taken away at the end of the event. The 12 part fearless series deals with doing something vague with them. Its basically Valkyrie going on a Zelda quest.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

That was exactly the point I made to a buddy of mine who is still trying in vain to transform me into a single issue collector (as payback for me turning him into a DC Universe 6" collector, haha).

I just read a brief synopsis of the Iron man fear itself events. So Tony makes everyone weapons made out of that magical elf metal that Thor's hammer is made out of along with upgrading his own armor huh? So how the hell does that play out and does he retain the upgrade to his armor after the event?

I thought that idea was cool in Avengers: EMH in the season finale but can't imagine how well it would play out in comics.

It's weird- Tony's armor looks a LOT like the cartoon version.
At the end of the event, Odin has left the dimension and the weapons and armor lose their magic- only Red She Hulk refuses to return her sword and the rest get recycled.

What made the even suck as was that we never see the fight- only minor background scenes of the heroes fighting with their weapons.
Typical Fracton- all build up and no payoff for the fan at all.
They needed a satisfying epic fight and there's just...nothing.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

It's weird- Tony's armor looks a LOT like the cartoon version.
At the end of the event, Odin has left the dimension and the weapons and armor lose their magic- only Red She Hulk refuses to return her sword and the rest get recycled.

What made the even suck as was that we never see the fight- only minor background scenes of the heroes fighting with their weapons.
Typical Fracton- all build up and no payoff for the fan at all.
They needed a satisfying epic fight and there's just...nothing.

This really disappoints me

I guess if anything I'll avoid the HC/TPB and just wait until it becomes available to read on my Marvel digital subscription. I have to really enjoy a series to consider owning it, or be so eagerly anticipating it after hearing rave reviews (Dark Angel saga for example).

I do hope this series will make a return to the glory that was the early fraction stories with Ezekiel Stand. It was those stories that made me a fan.

[Kaewin]

Not that I am saying I don't like big adventure but once and a while the stars need a moment to breathe. Fraction has dropped the ball a couple times but maybe this will be the great story. Hell the Mandarin is THE villain right? Just hope we aren't left to dangle.

[Jason Abbadon]

I hope so- Tony needs a big win.

If you want the perfect Tony/mandarin story, read the Haunted trade from when Tony was still SHIELD director- not only does it present everyone in a very realistic light, both visually and in characterization, it redefined the Mandarin completely- making him awesome!.

[Kaewin]

I will take a look at that, it was during the time I wasn't collecting. Did you see the IM annual from last year which rewrote the Mandarin's origin? I thought it was good but dangerous.