[Peteparker]

So I'm having trouble understanding 'running change'.

From what I know, 'Running change' is when the company makes a change to the way the figure is produced, never to go back to the 'old way' once the 'new way' is established.

If that's the definition, than all of the variants are running changes as well. Hasbro has always started with the under-produced version, only produced it for a short while, and then changed over to the one that is in always in rev cases later.

Even when those versions get rev'd, as in the cases of the new card art on the first wave of series 3, it's STILL a running change. They'll never go back once they've moved forward.

The only reason you'd see an older version put on shelves after a new rev is because of distribution. Places like Walmart and Target order in bulk and fill up the warehouses. Because they order at different times, they end up with different variations of the same cases. Then the timing as to when those cases hit actual shelves is completely dependent on each individual's store's replenishment need.

Even packaging and figure production errors are corrected (and sometimes corrected again) during the entire production run. These aren't variants, they're running changes too.

So basically, there's no such thing as 'variants' really. Only running changes to production over a long period of time.

[Boba Fettuccini]

Some variants are parallel releases, such as classic Havok. That wasn't a running change, that was a cut n dry alternative bonus version, not just an altered paint scheme or dropped/added accessory. So no, not all variants are running changes.

[Peteparker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boba Fettuccini

Some variants are parallel releases, such as classic Havok. That wasn't a running change, that was a cut n dry alternative bonus version, not just an altered paint scheme or dropped/added accessory. So no, not all variants are running changes.

They weren't released in parallel though. The original costume head came out first, mostly in LCS, and some TRUs, and then the modern version came out while there were still some of the original on shelves.

The modern has been the only one to ever be subsequently produced again, meaning once they migrated from the original head to the new head, they never went back.

[quinten182]

That's not true though. Some things were released as clear cut variants. The Havok and Deathmask Archangel showed up in my stores together. I seen both. Then only one went away. I agree with everything else you've said, but variants are variants. Running change does define everything else.

[Peteparker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by quinten182

That's not true though. Some things were released as clear cut variants. The Havok and Deathmask Archangel showed up in my stores together. I seen both. Then only one went away. I agree with everything else you've said, but variants are variants. Running change does define everything else.

I'm just trying to clearly define the difference, which is difficult.

You're probably right specifically in those cases. The Maskless Captain America in the Avengers line is recent proof of that too. Half of the cases had maskless, half had the regular figure.

That proves that aspect of my theory wrong.

So how do we define a variant as a variant? Is it only when they're released simultaneously? If so, that may make the more historical 'variants' harder to categorize definitively.

[NoodleChow]

hmmm interesting question. and yeah pretty weird to quantify since things like clear vision were supposed to be the variant but it turned out to be easier to find. clear dr strange is supposed to be the variant but shipped in mass quantities in north america first then turned into normal strange. x-men outfit wolverine started out with a crappy smushed headsculpt and then had a running change of the nicer head. cable came with hope then had a running change of a cable without hope.

i guess it all comes down to intention really. a true way to do variants is to continue packing them into places like revision waves. like if death variant archangel sometimes popped up in revision cases that primarily are supposed to have normal archangels packed in. but since hasbro doesn't do that, anything after initial release can be seen as a running change. i'd say clear vision is the running change and clear dr strange is for sure a variant. the new packaging is considered a running change but also can be seen as a variant.

in my mind, anything different from the intended release is a variant including running changes. so technically, the term "running change" is like the inbetween classification for variants.

[Iceman]

I've always seen it as variants being more rare but still coming out at the same time. Havoc and Ms. Marvel because they were shipping at the same time. Even since then we saw more of the normal versions and there are many others like this.

Running change is when both get produced in fairly large amounts transitioning in shipping from one to another like Cable was. It wasn't a variant cause they all shipped first and no longer ship.

[Boba Fettuccini]

This is trivial.

Let's eat clearance Easter candy and watch Futurama instead.

[Iceman]

At the end of the day all that matters is how hard (or easy) to get a figure actually is.

[LORD MARVEL]

moc guys yall are some damn good collectors..cause yall can spot the package change,color change,stance,etc.. i salute yall.. my variants are the figures..and finding them at a good price is a mf! lol

[trebleshot]

Apparently, I now have something new to add to my Collector's Reference Guide.

Short and simple: a running change is a minor tweak to an existing figure and/or its packaging. A variant has more drastic changes, such as a new deco or even remolded parts.

Also with running changes, the original release is never re-issued/re-released again (except for the odd aisle reset/restock with older merchandise). Examples would be Thor's Odin (shield repositioned, paint scheme tweaked), MU Series 3 Marvel and Doc Samson (reversed card art, S.H.I.E.L.D. symbol's color changed), Green Goblin (pumpkin bombs moved) and so on.

A variant is an intentional re-deco/remold of a figure released separately from the original, but still identified as filling the same slot. It's not a running change, even if the original never gets released again, because it wasn't a minor correction or change in packaging to fix something. It was a deliberate alteration to a figure to produce something different. Examples include: Modern/Classic Havok, Warpath/Thunderbird, Dr. Strange regular/astral forms, the FF box set in modern and Future Foundation color schemes, and so on.

All running changes are variants, but not all variants are running changes. Variants can take the place of the original release, like a running change, but that's not always the case. Sometimes the original and the variant are at retail for equal amounts of time before going out of production.

Hope that helps clear things up. I'll also add a variant to the above text to my Collector's Reference Guide.

[Iceman]

But I remember when David Vonner introduced the FF pack he called the Future Foundation version an intended running change that would ship in mass after the normal one. Perhaps he just mispoke as that never happened.

[trebleshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

But I remember when David Vonner introduced the FF pack he called the Future Foundation version an intended running change that would ship in mass after the normal one. Perhaps he just mispoke as that never happened.

I saw them ship in equal quantities for a while and now I don't see them at all. If the Future Foundation version gets another release, then we'll know for certain. Also, remember I said that all running changes are variants. So the FF variant could also become a running change down the line, if it is the only one to get re-released later.

Somehow I doubt the 3-packs are going to have revision cases like the single packs.

[Peteparker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebleshot

Apparently, I now have something new to add to my Collector's Reference Guide.

Short and simple: a running change is a minor tweak to an existing figure and/or its packaging. A variant has more drastic changes, such as a new deco or even remolded parts.

Also with running changes, the original release is never re-issued/re-released again (except for the odd aisle reset/restock with older merchandise). Examples would be Thor's Odin (shield repositioned, paint scheme tweaked), MU Series 3 Marvel and Doc Samson (reversed card art, S.H.I.E.L.D. symbol's color changed), Green Goblin (pumpkin bombs moved) and so on.

A variant is an intentional re-deco/remold of a figure released separately from the original, but still identified as filling the same slot. It's not a running change, even if the original never gets released again, because it wasn't a minor correction or change in packaging to fix something. It was a deliberate alteration to a figure to produce something different. Examples include: Modern/Classic Havok, Warpath/Thunderbird, Dr. Strange regular/astral forms, the FF box set in modern and Future Foundation color schemes, and so on.

All running changes are variants, but not all variants are running changes. Variants can take the place of the original release, like a running change, but that's not always the case. Sometimes the original and the variant are at retail for equal amounts of time before going out of production.

Hope that helps clear things up. I'll also add a variant to the above text to my Collector's Reference Guide.

It sounds like a running change is a correction while a variant is a pre-planned and purely intentional difference.

So a packaging change cannot be a variant, or we've just never seen that yet?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebleshot

I saw them ship in equal quantities for a while and now I don't see them at all. If the Future Foundation version gets another release, then we'll know for certain. Also, remember I said that all running changes are variants. So the FF variant could also become a running change down the line, if it is the only one to get re-released later.

Somehow I doubt the 3-packs are going to have revision cases like the single packs.

These are tough. First the Blue came out, then the white, then Blue and White shipped at the same time with half in some cases and half in another.

I still have a handful of Walmarts that have both, albeit at the $23 price tag.

The Blue version has been verified to be re-released with a transparent Sue later this year, so even if the white version was a change and they're not currently producing the blue, they will be by the end of the year.

Sounds like those changes are both intentional and pre-planned though, making those sets Variant sets by our definition.


Thanks for the link to the guide, I don't think I've looked at it before. Is this kind of thing printed in a collector's handbook somewhere? Seems like good information for toy collectors in general...

[trebleshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peteparker

It sounds like a running change is a correction while a variant is a pre-planned and purely intentional difference.

So a packaging change cannot be a variant, or we've just never seen that yet?

Correct. Changes to the packaging, while still deliberate, are not usually preplanned and result after the manufacturer gets packaged samples back and finds something wrong. Or license-holders request a change. For example, during the production of TF Power Core Combiners, a 5-pack was set to be released as "Spastic & the Stunticons". All the packaging read Spastic as the name of the Commander figure (the others being unnamed drones). That is, until Hasbro found out that spastic is a very offensive term in Europe. So they put stickers on the already-made packaging that covered up the original name and replaced it with the name "Over-Run". If you get one, you can actually peel off the stickers, revealing the original name. That is a running change.

Quote:

These are tough. First the Blue came out, then the white, then Blue and White shipped at the same time with half in some cases and half in another.

I still have a handful of Walmarts that have both, albeit at the $23 price tag.

The Blue version has been verified to be re-released with a transparent Sue later this year, so even if the white version was a change and they're not currently producing the blue, they will be by the end of the year.

Sounds like those changes are both intentional and pre-planned though, making those sets Variant sets by our definition.

Yes, they would all still be considered variants of each other. As for which is the original, it's generally assumed to be the first one released. Or if they are released together, then whichever one is considered the default look of the character. For example, the regular outfits were first in the comics, so that version of the set is considered the original, while the Future Foundation outfits are the first variant and the transparent Sue version is the second variant.

EDIT: But it's not a hard and fast rule. Sometimes the variant is considered the harder-to-find version and the regular version is the more widely-available version, regardless of who came out first. It can definitely be a gray area, like the two versions of Absorbing Man.

EDIT 2: Pardon the pun.

Quote:

Thanks for the link to the guide, I don't think I've looked at it before. Is this kind of thing printed in a collector's handbook somewhere? Seems like good information for toy collectors in general...

Nope, just information I've gathered from years of collecting and participating on the forums. I decided it would make a nice shorthand to reference and help out anyone new to collecting toys.