[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

And you know, curiously enough people are exactly the same way about Jason Todd.

Only difference is everyone hated Todd enough to demand he be killed in the first place.
No one ever wanted to see him brought back, not only because he was so reviled, but because how meaningful his death was to the Batman mythos.
When it was announced he was coming back for real, everyone was dead against it.
Now, if they tried to get rid of him, everyone would freak out.

Jason Todd and Bucky... two of a kind. >_<

WHY IS THERE NO 6" RED HOOD FIGURE!

[Rattrap Primal]

Marvel:
Comics: More Human level heroes and villains, with flaws and worries that most people deal with every day in addition to Cosmic Problems and Alternate Realities creating some headaches. Some characters mistrusted by the public they protect (Spider-Man, X-Men, sometimes the Fantastic Four and Avengers) while others are Urban Heroes that the police won't arrest (Punisher) Has a ever evolving scale for the "10 Year" timeline, meaning Cap was revived now maybe in the 80's, Spider-Man has been active for some time, Fantastic Four around now since the dawn of Social Media (FF Season 1 Hardcover), though Punisher is still a Vietnam Vet. Tends to soft reboot origins gradually depending on writers. Has Mephisto erase marriages (though how much longer will that be in affect depends on Marvel Top Brass, and if fans are willing to accept Spider-Man being a family man ever again whether to Mary Jane, Carlie or if Avengers VS X-Men does any reality warping, Gwen) And, Deadpool, creating his own brand of mayhem
Action Figures: Successful 3.75 inch lines (Marvel Universe, Captain America, Iron Man 2, Thor, Avengers), popular 6 inch Marvel Legends (which is not what it once was but it still sells), Marvel Select which in some ways is the Direct Sales Marvel Legends at times, doing characters that won't normally be released in retail (Traditional Ultron, a massive Hulk/ Thing, Abomination, Marvel Zombies)
Animation: TV series do well, Direct to DVD Projects need work
Movies: Several successful films over the years (Blade Trilogy, Spider-Man, X-Men, Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Thor, Incredible Hulk and hopefully The Avengers)

DC
Comics: Traditionally there characters where portrayed with public trust and beacons of hope within there homes cities. However, in the New 52, DC has been Marvelized (other board members have commented on this)
Action Figures: 6 inch scale figures (DCUC/ DCIC/ Batman Legacy) more successful than Marvel, while 3.75 inch has suffered mostly from limited articulation and smaller scale to Marvel Universe and GI Joe) DC Direct lack the super articulation of Mattel)
Animation: Had successful Justice League/ JLU until cancellation, Young Justice still in production. Direct to DVD projects even better than TV series
Movies: Only real success in the Batman movies. Superman being rebooted. Green Lantern bombed when many hoped movie would be as big as a hit as Iron Man

[tlasjr]

[QUOTE=Rattrap Primal;275197
Movies: Only real success in the Batman movies. Superman being rebooted. Green Lantern bombed when many hoped movie would be as big as a hit as Iron Man[/QUOTE]

Until Iron Man came out Superman II was the best superhero movie produced. (Doomsday didn't kill Superman, Tmothy Buton did. )

Have to say I'm looking forward to Avengers more than DKR.

And I agree Robin and Bucky should Both stay dead. Bucky was just the one people used in the quote. Heck, Superman needed to stay dead. Kryptonian healing coma...right. Kryptonian Cash grab.

[bmorr]

at least they havent brought back captain marvel...yet.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlasjr

Until Iron Man came out Superman II was the best superhero movie produced. (Doomsday didn't kill Superman, Tmothy Buton did. )

Have to say I'm looking forward to Avengers more than DKR.

And I agree Robin and Bucky should Both stay dead. Bucky was just the one people used in the quote. Heck, Superman needed to stay dead. Kryptonian healing coma...right. Kryptonian Cash grab.

At the very least, Resurrections in DC usually have a lot of weight to it. Superman's resurrection was a major plot point in The Blackest Night, as Raven discovered Nekron allowed him to return to open the door, for the following heroes he allowed to return.
Green Arrow's return was also a major event for him.

I remember in X-Men, when Psylocke was resurrected, White Queen just made some offhand comment about it, and everyone was back to business as usual.

[Iceman]

Batman and Green Lantern are the only DC books I keep up with on any level and ironically neither have powers of their own. I've always enjoyed more of the characters in Marvel but both studios release a fair amount of crap. I think the comic industry can save themselves by compacting and reducing the number of books they make. Stop making 5 books for every major character, take minor characters and make show runs of of like 6 issues every two years, etc. Trying to make characters all relate to each other is cool, but forcing someone to know and read all the interactions to understand what is going on isn't.

I think the main difference is in the way the each universe is set up. The fictional cities of the DC and overpoweredness of many of the characters just doesn't engage me. I do like most of the animated stuff that comes out from DC, even with the more obscure characters. I do think that both have a lot to offer and with all the options anyone can find something that is right for them, comic fan or no.

[Crazy Jetty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Batman and Green Lantern are the only DC books I keep up with on any level and ironically neither have powers of their own. I've always enjoyed more of the characters in Marvel but both studios release a fair amount of crap. I think the comic industry can save themselves by compacting and reducing the number of books they make. Stop making 5 books for every major character, take minor characters and make show runs of of like 6 issues every two years, etc. Trying to make characters all relate to each other is cool, but forcing someone to know and read all the interactions to understand what is going on isn't.

I think the main difference is in the way the each universe is set up. The fictional cities of the DC and overpoweredness of many of the characters just doesn't engage me. I do like most of the animated stuff that comes out from DC, even with the more obscure characters. I do think that both have a lot to offer and with all the options anyone can find something that is right for them, comic fan or no.

Very well said, and I agree with a lot.
Even when I love a character, I see no reason for one guy (Spiderman, Batman, Superman) to have multiple titles dedicated to him, specifically.
I have no issue with related characters having their own comics, and linking back to that core. Like Batman, Batgirl, Robin, and such. Each having their own titles, but all following a close continuity with one another. And maybe a core title, like Detective Comics being an anthology for all Gotham City characters.

[Kaewin]

Wow miss a couple days and a serious topic appears. I have very mixed feelings about both. When I was little my first comics were old books like Solar, Magnus, Star Trek and the lot but when I got into real collecting it was Marvel titles. I think this might stem from I first saw Fantastic Four in Boy's life. They did the origin in the magazine. I saw the FF but picked up the Avengers and that is what started my collecting. Since that day back in 1983 I have seen lots of different books come and go and I have read both Major Companies and they both have good and bad points. In the eighties Marvel reigned as the champions. they had tight writing, great characterization and had yet to swallow their own hubris. The Universe was connected and related. The weren't over the top no flaws people with no weakness. But in the nineties DC stepped forward with great stories and art. The had good art not art wielded by a few creatures who used it as weapons to control the company but solid stuff.

Marvel seemed to be strong early on with the characters everyone "wanted " to read. The took what they thought were their prizes and showered the books with these characters. Anti Heroes were cool, violence was cool and so were tricks to sell books. Dc had a better solution tell a good story. They ha da couple small problems, in the early ninties they had a soft reboot with Zero Hour because some people missed the notes on how to keep it in continuity and the gimmick "deaths." Beyond that they did fine.

In the 2000's both equaled out as they tried to sell more and more books. Complex storylines were the thing to entertain readers and it became more real at the same time it became more unreal. Events became the thing, they had to have events and some made no sense why they happened. It was just a plot to suck money.

I must admit I got out in 2006 for three years and when I got back in I left my DC books and went back to Marvel. I am happy there enjoying my Avengers and I do wish they would skip events but that won't happen. Everyone has valid opinions and I agree with many. I know this is a long blurb but how I see Marvel and DC's strongs points are as follows.

Marvel has a good History with innovation. They have taken concepts and run with them as far as they can go, and that is also a weakness. Marvel doesn't seem to know when it has played out an idea or a plot. Events suck, interrupting story lines for this sucks and annoying. Some heroes are to visible. One character in one book. Wolverine should be in one or if forced two books, not the Avengers Bendis is an idiot. Spidey is in three right now, how does he have anytime? He needs to pick one team and one team only besides his main book and stay there. Thing, FF or Avengers one or the other, he said he was leaving the team but in AvX guess what.

Characterization is great, I like the way Fraction rights Iron man. Brubacker is great for Cap. The only problem each issue is about tearing down the hero each and every arc. Plots can work and stories flow without punishing the Hero. I am so close to drop Cap if Brubaker tries and gives him the big screw in the next storyline.

Bendis....he is a good and bad thing. I like some of his writing because Secret Invasion was genius but all of the Osborn returning and who he put in the Avengers leaves something to be desired. I know he wanted a change but there was a reason why neither Spiderman nor Wolverine was on the team.

They laughed at DC for the reboot but it looks like they may have to change.


And DC They have an old and storied history, lots of events happen and are enjoyed, why do they reboot them every few years? And I don't mean just the big ones the little ones too. It seems that since Byrne anyone who took over a Superman book could retell the origin if he wanted to. He was altered what four or five times since '87? They should have stayed with it.

The characters are way to powerful or perfect. Batman does what he does in five titles a month, runs a company, patrols the streets, works out, eats, shits, maybe sleep where does he get all the time to make new gadgets and study all his new information? Whio makes his stuff anyway? Tony Stark? Shouldn't Green Lantern patrol his sector? When Hal gets the nod from a the Maltusans, I mean Guardians, he will stick to earth and forget the rest of space. They are always busy, and yes Marvel has this problem too, but they are also so powerful. I mean Flash runs faster than light, look at Kal's power set. It is hard to make a regular challenge at all interesting when the hero is a god.

The Big Reboot, New 52. They have said that Superman is first, well except for Batman, and he showed up five years ago. Everything else falls in someplace. What? What is let over. The war of the Rings has, maybe Blackest Night but how far back. Stormwatch? Why is the Martian Manhunter, the first silver age hero, part of this group not the one he first founded? Cyborg, a Teen Titan is. What also doesn't count. When Crisis came out DC put on a two book prestige format book called The History of the DC Universe. We could use one here.


I read both and enjoy both. I love my Marvel stuff and tried some DC books because they are cheaper so I feel it is a tie for me. I love the Avengers and Marvel Silver Age excites me but I do enjoy some of the new DC books to come out. I thing Swamp Thing is their best title and read more at about and even split each month. I just feel they have both much to work on. The New 52 is not going away no matter how improbable it was to happen and yes I feel Marvel is about to do the same thing in AvX when Phoenix takes over Wanda (speculation only). Will it annoy me? Yes, will I read it? Yes.

Just saying

[Greenskar]

DAMN Kaewin!

I actually read all that and really enjoyed your thoughts on this topic. I will keep reading so long as a comic that catches my attention from either brand is well written and has decent to stellar artwork or vice versa (Amazing artwork and decent to stellar writing). Regardless of a red boot.

I think comic book universes should evolve with the times and create opportunities for new readers of a new generation to start from scratch again without having to filter through decades worth of history. Its good to have the option but it would be great to have some finality to a continuity and then start the next universe after so many years, just my thoughts for both brands.

I know marvel has the ultimate universe and to me that fits with my above statement, whereas new 52 did not really do much to distance itself from the regular DC universe continuity IMO.

[Exodus]

Speaking of keeping heroes/villains dead, this kind of relates.
Y! Big Story: Tupac
Wonder if they'll start doing this to the other artists that have passed...

[bmorr]

ill get really excited when people attach those projectors to R2 units.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

Speaking of keeping heroes/villains dead, this kind of relates.
Y! Big Story: Tupac
Wonder if they'll start doing this to the other artists that have passed...

Yeah I watched the video right after it happened. I had two friends there who told me how confused everyone, who likely had been dropping acid all weekend, were when that performance went down. Crowd was damn near silent, lol.

Imagine: "ohhh, damn...he really is alive! OHHH S***, HE JUST DISAPPEARED!"

[Exodus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

Yeah I watched the video right after it happened. I had two friends there who told me how confused everyone, who likely had been dropping acid all weekend, were when that performance went down. Crowd was damn near silent, lol.

Imagine: "ohhh, damn...he really is alive! OHHH S***, HE JUST DISAPPEARED!"

Ha ha nice! I would have love to gone to see that performance. Or getting high like Rihanna:P