[Dolemite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorn88

Cute pic, but not a response. I'm not really taking sides in this debate, but Iconoclast stated his take on the subject and just posting a sweet Jordan gif in response does absolutely nothing to substantiate your side.

if you want to argue, argue like a grown-up who is confident in his opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Perfectly somes up my exact reaction to that idiotic and naive comment of his

See above, replace "sweet Jordan gif" with "pointless name-calling."

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

NECA sales numbers would be even smaller than Mattel. Their market isn't that strong, nor would they have the money for that kind of acquisition. (MOTU or DC.)

Also as much as I love NECA they wouldn't be able to provide for anyone that actually wants to play with DC toys, they're pretty squarely focused on collectors. I'm fine with Mattel holding DC's master toy rights as long as they continue a trend of improvement I just wish Mattel would allow NECA to openly serve fans who want what they offer.

[Dr Kain]

Bullshit that even more people are losing their jobs all due to corporate greed. -_-

[webz]

From what I heard on the news on the radio, most of the jobs affected were factories in other countries.

It makes sense, since store real estate is totally different now. Mattel has to settle for sharing an aisle with Disney Princesses, DC Heroes, and tons of other product, instead of having their own aisle at TRU or their own store at FAO Schwartz.

Hot Wheels went from an entire wall in the 1980's at TRU to sharing with Pixar Cars, numerous off brands, and now they have 3 pegs at Target.

Before you know it, Mattel with follow Kenner and be absorbed into either Hasbro or Bratz.

[Dolemite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by webz

From what I heard on the news on the radio, most of the jobs affected were factories in other countries.

Actually, I heard that they were mostly non-manufacturing jobs that were lost. I wonder which is right?

[SpasticPlastic]

The only one I know of for fact that lost his job was the bearded bloke that was responsible for the upcoming Multiverse wave, with The Ray in it. Jason something.

[scarecrow]

As a employee in the corporate world, I realize it's easy to get riled up about that kind of news.

With that said, FUCK MATTEL.

[TheBlueMarvel]

So much for the Mattel DC rebirth. I'll need to nab what I want from the con showings the minute they retail. The secondary market will be especially brutal as the line dies.

[evilekim]

I almost never buy a Mattel toy anymore. I will say, they did good with Jurassic World. Not much else going on though. I would have bought the King Shark wave if they were in stores. Dealers bought them all and raised the prices.

[hasbroherofan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

Pretty much this. Though if Mattel had better worked on some of the DCEU stuff to fit within certain markets, they might be higher on the list.

Looking at Jurassic World for example, the scale it's in and how well it's doing, it would be smart to consider doing a DCEU line and CW Series line that's comparative to that in cost too(especially because of cross play!). Part of the reason action figures aren't as dominant in the market is because of the cost.

I was actually thinking the DCEU stuff is another potential millstone around the neck at this point. I think Aquaman and Shazam have a shot at rehabilitating the DCEU's image, but the series is basically a joke right now.

[SpasticPlastic]

I partially take back my comment about the DC rights, simply because the only other viable option is Hasbro. I think Mattel could give up the master toy license for DC, but still make the mass retail junk. They don't need the master for that. DC itself should control the properties and sell the rights for separate categories as they see fit.

I know NECA couldn't buy the MOTU brand, but imagine if they were allowed to make figures. I know they typically aren't in the mass market, but neither has MOTU been for a very long time. That being said, my pants shrink at the thought of going into a Target and buying highly detailed, awesome figures of He-Man and the crew as done by NECA.

As it stands, I'm a little worried that Mattel will see success with MOTU again and strip it from Super7, as soon as they can. I was just getting into buying the brand again and I'd hate to stop.

[faelon]

This has little to do with specicific lines. It has everything to do with the horribly unqualified former CEO that they got from Google, who had no Manufacturing, Retail, Logistics, Import/Export or Product Delivery experience. (She was a mid tier Google administrator, prior to that she sold shoddy silicon valley financial products). When the other vendors started to sense Toys R Us's instability, and acted to limit their financial exposure, Margo doubled down on Mattel's risk. Hence while Lego has around $30 mil loss from TRU and Hasbro has around $40 mil, Mattel has $180 million loss in unpaid product from TRU's collapse. Add nto this poor and confused leadership, bad product line management and just idiotic decisions across the boards. Mattel is a case study in why a business should not hire ex-Google executives in an effort to "bring more diversity to their boardrooms". Don't give your company over to someone with no experience in your industry or any related business or industry. When your CEO's only life experience with the Toy Business is playing with Barbies when 6, you are destined to fail. Nobody knows how Google makes their money, the least of all any of their hundreds of mid tier VP's. Every third Secretary is a Veep at Google. It's meaningless out in the real world. Mattel learned this the hard way. Sadly they may not have enough room or shelf space in the market remaining to quickly correct for this error. They are now a likely sale/takeover candidate.

[TheBlueMarvel]

Hmmmm....did someone say "diversity?"

I think this might qualify as politically charged...but who is me?

[scarecrow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by faelon

This has little to do with specicific lines. It has everything to do with the horribly unqualified former CEO that they got from Google, who had no Manufacturing, Retail, Logistics, Import/Export or Product Delivery experience. (She was a mid tier Google administrator, prior to that she sold shoddy silicon valley financial products). When the other vendors started to sense Toys R Us's instability, and acted to limit their financial exposure, Margo doubled down on Mattel's risk. Hence while Lego has around $30 mil loss from TRU and Hasbro has around $40 mil, Mattel has $180 million loss in unpaid product from TRU's collapse. Add nto this poor and confused leadership, bad product line management and just idiotic decisions across the boards. Mattel is a case study in why a business should not hire ex-Google executives in an effort to "bring more diversity to their boardrooms". Don't give your company over to someone with no experience in your industry or any related business or industry. When your CEO's only life experience with the Toy Business is playing with Barbies when 6, you are destined to fail. Nobody knows how Google makes their money, the least of all any of their hundreds of mid tier VP's. Every third Secretary is a Veep at Google. It's meaningless out in the real world. Mattel learned this the hard way. Sadly they may not have enough room or shelf space in the market remaining to quickly correct for this error. They are now a likely sale/takeover candidate.

This post in a case study in why spacing exists. You had me until the diversity thing. Keep that kind of bias out of the toy realm.

[TheBlueMarvel]

^I know right? It was logical for a second, then....nails on a chaulkboard. "Oh, one of those...."

[Tomax]

i hope mattel recovers, i like mattel. they made one of the best toy lines, DCUC!

[TheBlueMarvel]

I do as well, Tomax.

[LegoLover58]

Meanwhile, Hasbro's stock is up 13%.

[Nintenderek]

They'd probably do better if they could get all their products to stores everywhere properly instead of just a few on the coasts.

[Tomax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

I do as well, Tomax.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

So much for the Mattel DC rebirth. I'll need to nab what I want from the con showings the minute they retail. The secondary market will be especially brutal as the line dies.

Why would their DC line die just because they are laying off so many people?

[hasbroherofan]

If DC chose to bring the license to another company, is there really anyone other than Hasbro? I can't think of any other toy manufacturer that could put out as broad and expansive a range of products for a given property as Hasbro and Mattel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

^I know right? It was logical for a second, then....nails on a chaulkboard. "Oh, one of those...."

It reminds me of a certain someone who is no longer around these parts.

[TimothyR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Never dried the distribution issues, just that the DC action figures have much of an impact on Matty's financials. WWE is the #1 selling action figure brand in America. And it's not even the leader for Mattel's boys toys. Hot Wheels is. And Hot Wheels numbers don't touch Mattel's girls' toys sales. So acting like an improvement on distribution for a low-impact niche line like DC Multiverse would make an ounce of difference to the financial health of the company is laughable. Action Figures are not a big deal.

And maybe that’s part of the problem.. perhaps if they put more effort into the line, it could be more popular thus making them more money. But they treat it like a throw away line in terms of distribution, quality, and modern techniques/articulation.

If you only focus on the top earners, everything else suffers in turn making the company suffer.

[TheBlueMarvel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Why would their DC line die just because they are laying off so many people?

- Laying off 2200 people, contrary to what you may believe, isn't a good thing. One doesn't need an MBA to suss that out.

- Look at the comments of consumers/enthusiasts on this thread regarding their general opinion of Mattel...or reflect back to your own statements over the years about things like Matty collector.

- This event is likely to force them to constrict their lines. Do we belive Multiverse to be their best seller and/or immune to any changes comming down the pike?

- These are just early reverberations following the loss of TRU, there will be more cascading effects as reality sets in.

- Critical/analytical thinking.

...but sure, anything is possible.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hasbroherofan

I was actually thinking the DCEU stuff is another potential millstone around the neck at this point. I think Aquaman and Shazam have a shot at rehabilitating the DCEU's image, but the series is basically a joke right now.

You're looking at it as an adult viewer. Collector-centric is a niche market, it's kids buying it or not that's the question. Or parents for their kids or grandma and grandpa for grandchildren. But all that is on the retail outlet. Batman and superheroes like superman are mainstay purchases, it's a matter of having cost effective product that can move at high enough volume. A "multiverse only" approach would be a waste of the license. And even the kid friendly product line they've developed is still relatively not cost effective/cheap enough for high volume consumers. Compared to what they were doing for MoS and Batman. If they can get those back to Jurassic World type levels, they could be doing better. Right now, they are kind of pricing themselves out of the market. With Multiverse holding down the collector side, but the mainstream product is still off, and the evergreen lines aren't around anymore. They need to restructure that for better cost to volume movement for the broader product. Consumers right now are heavily cost conscious. Which is causing the slower retailer orders as well as some various other factors. The lower tier product is what needs restructuring and Mattel needs to look into better ways to appease the market and what retailers want. (WHich after Jurassic World's strong performance, is likely to be more like that for "batman" and "superman" and "wonder woman" because of the volume to MSRP for profits and name/brand recognition.)

What matters here is retail orders because it's a blockbuster superhero movie. Retailers are who pay Mattel. Not us consumers. Retailers are the ones that want Batman figures on shelves and other comic book figures for kids because it's trendy right now and are considered hot items. (Which is also why Multiverse stocking is so slow. It's not a hot seller, and profit margins on it aren't as great as other lines that do move more. What many blame on Mattel for "bad distribution" is really on retailers for slow ordering because of lack of demand/low profit margins to volume moved. Not enough incentive to care on the retailer end since it's a low earner.)

Same as how Hot Wheels, Matchbox, and Barbie are mainstays. Mattel orders are in volume based on retailer orders to keep inventory flowing by what moves and needs replenishing across all stores via the warehouse systems. E-Retailers and NECA kind of pale in comparison to that volume. This is why things like the Batman evergreen line did so well. And a similar approach of that using Jurassic World's scale to price point could as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpasticPlastic

I partially take back my comment about the DC rights, simply because the only other viable option is Hasbro. I think Mattel could give up the master toy license for DC, but still make the mass retail junk. They don't need the master for that. DC itself should control the properties and sell the rights for separate categories as they see fit.

I know NECA couldn't buy the MOTU brand, but imagine if they were allowed to make figures. I know they typically aren't in the mass market, but neither has MOTU been for a very long time. That being said, my pants shrink at the thought of going into a Target and buying highly detailed, awesome figures of He-Man and the crew as done by NECA.

As it stands, I'm a little worried that Mattel will see success with MOTU again and strip it from Super7, as soon as they can. I was just getting into buying the brand again and I'd hate to stop.

Won't happen. DC is too lucrative, and not many other companies have the resources to match Mattel besides Hasbro, Bandai, and Playmates for something like the DC license. The largest amount of funds here for Mattel is from volume by retailers though. We the consumers aren't the ones buying from Mattel, the retailers are in hopes of selling to consumers because of whatever popularity or hype. Mattel would never willingly give up a license, another company would have to buy the license out.

Mattel has relatively good ties to WB though. And MOTU will come back in a big way if the movie happens(Barbie movie and MOTU are over at WB right now for film rights last I checked). Right now though, the bigger focus is on seeing how the mega construx does, and likely prepping some She-ra releases if the toon goes over as well as it seems it will. Cause if it does, then retailers will want product to sell to consumers as it has hype and presence in the market(like what happened with Max Steel product in mexico and how it was getting large order volumes enough to support new product for those markets). Volume of that to retailers could help Mattel. By volume, Hot wheels, matchbox, and barbie are the biggest money makers Mattel has. Which is also interesting because of the price tiers they have being more reasonable. Same to why Jurassic World is moving so well besides being dinosaurs. The price tier it has is easier to move volumes of which is more profit per figure sold. Higher priced the item, the less volume of it that moves. Barbie and Hot Wheels are also interesting because they have a larger market presence from things like grocery stores and walgreens too and more. So by volume more retailers order those in higher amounts, also because of their more reasonable price tiers. So adjusting DC material to fit those volume amounts of impulse purchase prices would help tons. That's what's holding them back on wider markets with that license. They are above impulse buy thresholds whereas their popular lines aren't.

MOTU is relatively safe where it is for now overall though. Since it's an in-house owned property, it's not the same as the legal issues that comes up from something like DC or other non-in-house owned where they have to tread carefully about who owns what part of the rights. Mattel can do their own MOTU line if the movie gets off the ground while still keeping the vintage rights to super 7 and having them focus on the collector market. Since Mattel owns it they can decide how they divide it up. And the niche market Super 7 fills isn't something that's a concern for major retailers or other outlets. Since Mattel has full MOTU control, it's less of a worry of stepping on anyone's toes since it's their own legal department that wrote those contracts instead of having to navigate contracts others wrote and made them sign to divide up toy rights or market presence etc.

Essentially Mattel needs to close some lines, and then reapproach. JLAction, and the kid version DCEU/DC lines for one, and a few other things. Like for example their wasted use of the Wonder Woman license when they should have had more material out on shelves besides a Barbie based line, Roleplay, and Collector oriented. Same as they should have more out for full DC coverage in more cost efficient ways than they have. They were doing better back in DCIH days by comparison. Same to MOS days, or even the much maligned GL movie line. Volume orders were coming in at higher amounts during then, as well as more fit on shelf space available for larger orders. Much of that had to do with better price tiers to appease impulse purchases.

There's other factors to consider too like content and how to generate audience/kid interest which in turn generates retailer interest and hype.

This is why Mattel should look into cheaper ways to get broader material available like the Jurassic World method using the DC license of TV/Film/Comics. Wonder Woman, and CW DC would probably sell really well if it was under a 10 spot(usd), and could start moving near Barbie/Hot Wheels kinds of numbers at that impulse buy level, as well as generate larger orders from wider areas like more from walgreens and grocers as well as their volume moving for re-orders. Profit margins are better at the smaller per amount in a case. As opposed to the less per case bigger figures.

As it is now, multiverse is pricey for both a retailer to order and a consumer to buy and takes up a lot of shelf space. While it does move, at the higher cost (close to 20 USD) it's not moving the volume that keeps retailers happy overall and consistently filling it like they do hot wheels or barbie. It's simple math in that regard. And Multiverse really doesn't have that great of a profit margin for either Mattel or Retailers by the so-so volume it moves. Enough to sustain itself and keep retailers content, but those DC material numbers could be doing better if their was a better discount line alongside it. Which is why many are seeing slow to restock, it's not a high concern for the profit it generates, but enough there to keep general audiences happy.

Even if a blockbuster movie is wildly popular, if the toyline is too pricey for it, it still won't move the numbers it should. Same is true if the blockbuster flops though, if the toy line is cheap enough, impulse buys can make it succeed even if the property itself doesn't perform well in media. And retailers tend to order more for things that are cheaper and they get more of for the money they spend as well.

It's a lot of random factors to balance and go over. Kids like large things, but impulse buys are also a key figure. Smaller in your pocket type stuff sells really well too and travels well for kids which makes for easier car trips and similar too as well as vacation toy purchases. And lots of factors associated to that.

Completely not accurate numbers, but let's put this in perspective for a second:

If a consumer sees a figure at under 10 dollars, and tells their kid you can only spend 20 dollars. Kid can get two heroes for the cost of one toy from multiverse. The retailer makes two profits off of that, one per toy sold. As opposed to the singular profit margin off of one multiverse figure if a kid even buys that because they could find something else more interesting for the money that's cheaper and more value to them.

So say the retailer makes 80 cents per figure off of jurassic world, but if jurassic world had a legends scale like line, only makes roughly 1 USD per figure sold of that. The retailer is making more per the smaller line sold because a consumer is buying 2 per every 1 of the larger. So instead of making a buck per figure at 15-20 USD. The retailer is making 1.60 per 15-20 USD spent.

This is why Barbie and hot wheels are doing so well. Hot wheels are roughly 89 cents to 99 cents, with upwards of 3.99 on the priciest(individual cars, not track sets). While barbie at it's cheapest is roughly 8-10 USD. The profit margin is smaller, but the volume moved makes them more lucrative because of their prices and amount that fits in a case per order. (Per the example, Say a hot wheels car is 10 cents profit per one sold. Sell 10 of them and that's already a dollar at 10USD spent by a consumer as opposed to the dollar made from 20 USD of one Multiverse. So now the store is making 2 USD per every 20 USD a consumer spends on hot wheels. Double what the singular purchase of a multiverse figure is. And case order contains 4 times the amount if not more than a multiverse case. Again, entirely made up numbers, but this is to give you a rough idea of cost to volume for profit per case to understand why things like Multiverse aren't moving but cheaper things are. The dedicated action figure collector doesn't generate enough profits for a high priced line to succeed on its own. Volume to cases per restock, as well as being too far above impulse buy thresholds is making sales too slow in those areas even before you factor in media presence.)

Outside of Barbie/Hot Wheels and Jurassic World, Mattel isn't catering to the volume markets right.

Like I said, it's a lot of factors to take into consideration and figure out. But a good start for them would be to start getting some better budget friendly lines out and to also do away with their gendered marketing of material that's excluding potential audiences like they did with wonder woman. They lost a pretty penny by not doing what they could have there because of archaic ways of thinking and not meeting demand right. Wonder Woman material did well, but it could have done twice as well. Same as the DC license could be doing better if they had some better coverage and budget versions to appease wider tastes.

Like She-ra for example, they should do a dual tier line. Jurassic World like figures, and the larger more collector centered/"girl friendly" as they'd call it, line like DC Super hero girls. The smaller scaled budget line could move more volume while the more dedicated fans will want the bigger, and they'd still have the relatively barbie comparable line for that audience too. This also fits boy toy markets for half the lines, and fits various dollhouse scales to still sell those to girls of varying taste. It'd all be in-house owned, if new series popularity holds as much as it should, retailers will test it out, and then likely order by large volume amounts. And then that still leaves room open for two styles of mega contrux if it really takes off big. (Collector high articulation style, and more kid friendly like TMNT toon style.) By volume, the smaller will move, the bigger will too, but will also last longer on shelves to act as eye catches for the smaller, and they also have the other market corners covered. (The only downside there is that the market data would reflect it as their girls lines doing well and neglect the fact it's because it appeals to the full market not one side of it.)

Using She-ra as example, that's the pattern they should have used for DC Superhero girls too, and some other DC lines besides multiverse. (Minus mega construx since Lego has those rights. Which those sets are selling. But again that's because of content to cost ratios causing better retailer orders by volume.)

Mattel will get back on its feet, once they reassess, analyze the market data, and then re-approach. And once they get better profit flow coming in by volume, they can better look into wider new forays of in-house owned to grow their own library of material. But now more than ever they need to work within the confines of impulse buy thresholds to profit margins generation by volume like they do with Barbie and Hot Wheels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegoLover58

Meanwhile, Hasbro's stock is up 13%.

Hasbro stock goes up like clockwork. Their multi-front approach is really good and they've got some really good creative teams keeping the flow constant on all fronts with new endeavors constantly coming in too across all their self-owned properties besides marvel. Plus their portfolio is really widespread in the market from board games to figures, and more. Mattel isn't as wide coverage as them nor has much in the way of an entertainment arm outside of Barbie. They don't have that much of a market presence on in-house owned properties either unlike hasbro's wide spread. Mattel needs more in-house owned material, and better approaches to licensed material as it looks like they're seeing from how well Jurassic world is doing.

A diversified portfolio is always bound to do better.



Also, bored late night explanation. So my apologies for how long winded it is. But I hope the info and explanations help better get the point across what some of toyline issues are as well as what retailers are looking for maximize profits to shelf space.

More media will help in the long run too to build better market hype. But Mattel needs to take a page from Hasbro on this. Like how Avengers 1 was a 10 USD per figure line and sold like wildfire. The media helped, but also so did the volume per case and price being at impulse buy threshold. Same goes for Ironman 2's line, and how it literally kept being stocked all the way to Ironman 3 because Retailers kept ordering it. That's a rarity for blockbuster movie lines.

The toy market is a very intricate thing that's a lot of balance and figuring out that varies across a lot of information and factors as well as what's trendy at the moment(like Wrestling figures at one point almost went completely under, but now are a strong seller, and in a few years may fade out again). So it's a lot of factors to take into consideration and figure out.