[LordMudd]

I don't think you can say Aquaman underperformed, but where are the 4" figures, vehicles and playsets? Oh, that's right, thanks to Toyguru, Mattel doesn't do 4" anymore, and thanks to Dwight, neither does Hasbro, even though their 4" was superior to Mattels. Of course a lot of us would be happy to see Dwight out on his ass, so I probably shouldn't try to warn him that he is sinking his own ship, but hey, nobody ever listens to me anyway.


CCC.

[Toonstrack]

I was just considering hopping onto the Multiverse train and this happens. Oh well, I may still pick up Manta and Orm because those are likely to be the only figures those characters ever get. If they manage to release Canary and Nightwing, I may still go for those as well.

This is an interesting development for sure. Honestly Im not worried at all about Hasbro losing anything, but now Mezco, Mafex and Revoltech have a real opportunity to get some figures made that people will want and get them out soon while the demand is there. It's said that the only DC domestic toyline making DC stuff is charging $80 a pop for figures, but it is what it is at this point.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comedian

I doubt anything will be cancelled. Mattel still has until spring of 2020. They are still paying for the rights,so why not make money. They could really get us with best of series and tug at the nostalgic side of us and go super powers the last year.

Still money to make out there.

Bandai still has the Power Rangers license until March and what have they released in the last six months?

[hasbroherofan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordMudd

I don't think you can say Aquaman underperformed, but where are the 4" figures, vehicles and playsets? Oh, that's right, thanks to Toyguru, Mattel doesn't do 4" anymore, and thanks to Dwight, neither does Hasbro, even though their 4" was superior to Mattels.

Of course a lot of us would be happy to see Dwight out on his ass, so I probably shouldn't try to warn him that he is sinking his own ship, but hey, nobody ever listens to me anyway.


CCC.

Again, is there any actual evidence to indicate any of these are actually hurting their sales? I don't mean this to be jerk; I've seen several people on the 3.75 inch thread making the claim that 6 inch figures don't sell and that Hasbro is tossing money into the furnace out of spite, but I've never actually seen anything approaching evidence that this is in any way true, or that 3.75 inch figures were vastly outselling the 6-inch scale.

The problem Mattel is experiencing is not about scale, it's about the fact that the figures they produce are usually crap regardless of scale.

[IrwinMFletcher]

Does scale size matter in action figure economics debate? I really dont think so. I’m in the camp that video games did us in years ago and we’ve been reducing down to the niche market we are becoming.

It’s amazing the prevalence of high dollar statues and 12in dolls in the last 5 years alone. As a 3.75 (4inch,1/18,?) the best stuff right now isnt done at the big two toy companies. I’ve given Boss Fight Studio and Spero Toys more money than Hasbro or Mattel.

As for Spin Master, yea sure most of their stuff blows goat, but sometimes companies suprise you. I would have never thought Jazwares could have made a decent product but damn those Fortnite figs are sweet.

What do you guys think has made more money to this point: Jazwares Fortnite or Mcfarlane Fortnite?

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

Does scale size matter in action figure economics debate? I really dont think so. I’m in the camp that video games did us in years ago and we’ve been reducing down to the niche market we are becoming.

It’s amazing the prevalence of high dollar statues and 12in dolls in the last 5 years alone. As a 3.75 (4inch,1/18,?) the best stuff right now isnt done at the big two toy companies. I’ve given Boss Fight Studio and Spero Toys more money than Hasbro or Mattel.

As for Spin Master, yea sure most of their stuff blows goat, but sometimes companies suprise you. I would have never thought Jazwares could have made a decent product but damn those Fortnite figs are sweet.

What do you guys think has made more money to this point: Jazwares Fortnite or Mcfarlane Fortnite?

Jazzwares....

[Black Arbor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

Does scale size matter in action figure economics debate? I really dont think so. I’m in the camp that video games did us in years ago and we’ve been reducing down to the niche market we are becoming.

It’s amazing the prevalence of high dollar statues and 12in dolls in the last 5 years alone. As a 3.75 (4inch,1/18,?) the best stuff right now isnt done at the big two toy companies. I’ve given Boss Fight Studio and Spero Toys more money than Hasbro or Mattel.

As for Spin Master, yea sure most of their stuff blows goat, but sometimes companies suprise you. I would have never thought Jazwares could have made a decent product but damn those Fortnite figs are sweet.

What do you guys think has made more money to this point: Jazwares Fortnite or Mcfarlane Fortnite?

Definitely Jazwares, more characters and accessories for a smaller price point? There's no contest there!

[jwyss234]

Don't licensing contracts between toy companies and media partners require the toy company to produce figures? I wonder if that's part of the reason why Mattel lost the DC license. Mattel has only released three waves this year which totals less than 20 figures for the year.

I wonder if Mattel will stop (or be able to stop) Neca from producing their DC figures in 2019. I still want the figures they showed at NYTF 17.

[Tomax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeddostotle7

???????? No, that's not what they said with Toys R Us. First they said they were filing for bankruptcy, then they said they were shutting down because they said they couldn't pay off their debt. Never did they say they were "postponing" anything.

Yes, collectors still have other DC options, but none of them are Marvel Legends-esque (around $20 price point, even remotely close to as wide range of characters, etc.) the way DC Multiverse was, even with all its problems. DC Collectibles' figures are ~$30, but they make relatively few a year, and they don't stay committed to a line, so they usually don't end up making many figures beyond the very basics. Imports are all significantly more expensive, and either movie-focused or going for a much different kind of thing (Revoltech). There is no other existing line that can fill the same role that DC Multiverse did.

they still closed down so...i know what happened cause i was the one who posted the news

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrwinMFletcher

Does scale size matter in action figure economics debate? I really dont think so. I’m in the camp that video games did us in years ago and we’ve been reducing down to the niche market we are becoming.

It’s amazing the prevalence of high dollar statues and 12in dolls in the last 5 years alone. As a 3.75 (4inch,1/18,?) the best stuff right now isnt done at the big two toy companies. I’ve given Boss Fight Studio and Spero Toys more money than Hasbro or Mattel.

As for Spin Master, yea sure most of their stuff blows goat, but sometimes companies suprise you. I would have never thought Jazwares could have made a decent product but damn those Fortnite figs are sweet.

What do you guys think has made more money to this point: Jazwares Fortnite or Mcfarlane Fortnite?

It only matters in economics because of item cost. Item cost determines sales. Higher volume can be moved at more reasonable prices.

As long as an appealing toyline is available at under a 10 USD MSRP(below 10 with tax), the economics suggest the product will move if the license is popular.

And to answer your question, Jazwares fortenite makes more. Less overhead, higher volume moved. Which again is because of the MSRP. Though Mcfarlane is sustainable or they wouldn't produce it, their market is more adult fan direct, less kid friendly appeal. Their material is mostly for adults. Jazwares is making material for kids. So their market data is different per different audience intent.

That being said, the blame that fans lay at certain areas of individual companies is off base.

Jurassic world showed mattel that sizing does make a difference in product moved with how popular the line was, and a big factor of that was the MSRP. So odds of mattel looking more into that, is high now, no matter what any "employee" says otherwise. Economics speak louder than them.

And Dwight over at Hasbro doesn't control 4" either, he handles 6" legends scale. The 4" market hit different hiccups there, and is being re-evaluated. The problem was cost. Going above the 10 USD MSRP is a death sentence for a value scale toy line period, the closer to a 15 USD MSRP it gets, that harder to move volume it becomes. With right now, the market sitting at 12.99 as the standard which is difficult to push. At the higher price points, 6" is the only option. For Hasbro, figuring out the economics to fix that is the main hiccup. And moving more factories out of china is the start in that to get that market back on track.

For Mattel on the other hand, the hiccups are different. Though more is being looked into in how to fix that too. As Jurassic world showed exactly how lucrative that can be in pushing sales forward stronger.

Jazwares and Spin Master on the other hand, understand the underlying problems to the market with MSRP. And like playmates, trying to maintain an under 10 MSRP single carded price point when possible. With fortenite, it's pushing the limits a little bit to maintain an under 15 USD MSRP because the popularity of the brand can support it.

Depending on what the additional licensing fees are to figures, as long as Spin Master can maintain a decent budget line of under 10 MSRP to 12.99 at max, preferably lower, they can do well, with the 6" market being the only question depending on what it costs there. But since current market is sustainable at 19.99 MSRP on accessory rich 6" that should be moderately fine.

It's an economics issue at the core. How much money will a consumer spend to content. The more bang they get for their buck, the better. Otherwise they'll buy something else. 6" scale is a staple and staying around because of collectors, but the 4" at its core has always been about economics to kid ratio, fan appeal was an added bonus. So the MSRP sky rocketing is directly the issue.

This is a big reason why Playmates keeps TMNT under 10 USD for the MSRP themselves too, and why they maintain their market share. Same as how Lanard works as well to maintain market share. Economics keep their product lines viable because of cost to consumer making them more lucrative.

Because of that, outside of select properties, anything smaller or same size as them, but priced too high above, doesn't move enough volume by comparison. With property popularity being the only exception. (Fortenite is a hot item right now, allowing for the slight increase in MSRP to accessory ratio for the build-a-pieces to help push that more.)

So Lord Mudd is wrong, but the economics are indeed there in support of 4" if the overhead can be reduced, which in turn means higher volume moved. Therein is the main issue.

But then we're also talking broader mainstream market. Not isolated smaller markets that can do extreme markups. The bigger companies need the broader mainstream market to sustain themselves. Smaller companies don't. Which factors back into economics again.

As for contracts, the contract can stipulate almost anything. Which is part of the reason Jazware Fortenite figures are the way they are, as well as previously the Tron Legacy Spin Master toys. Or for that matter, the previous Robocop new movie toys were.
All of those were controlled by their contracts. So likely, this new material from Spin Master for DC will be contract stipulated to attempt certain line types and bars of quality like Jazwares and fortenite was.

[TheBlueMarvel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomax

they still closed down so...i know what happened cause i was the one who posted the news

Lol I remember, dude. Many said you were jumping to conclusions. Both admins and members of the Ark dismissed you and your extrapolation of the events that would later unfold as reality. In fact, if I remember correctly, one of the threads you started on the matter was shut down. Only to be replaced a few weeks later by the official breaking news that TRU was indeed going under. I found all of it to be pretty hilarious. Not the aspect of people losing their livelihoods, that was very upsetting in a been there done that sort of way...but the fact that your assessment was spot on and no one ever bothered to extend a mea culpa to you.

...that's your origin story here. You've the makings for a great supervillain in these parts...or a vengeance seeking antihero, at the very least.

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

Lol I remember, dude. Many said you were jumping to conclusions. Both admins and members of the Ark dismissed you and your extrapolation of the events that would later unfold as reality. In fact, if I remember correctly, one of the threads you started on the matter was shut down. Only to be replaced a few weeks later by the official breaking news that TRU was indeed going under. I found all of it to be pretty hilarious. Not the aspect of people losing there livelihoods, that was very upsetting in a been there done that sort of way...but the fact that your assessment was spot on and no one ever bothered to extend a mea culpa to you.

...that's your origin story here. You've the makings for a great supervillain in these parts...or a vengeance seeking antihero, at the very least.

[TheBlueMarvel]

Heh heh!

[Jeddostotle7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomax

they still closed down so...i know what happened cause i was the one who posted the news

That doesn't matter. What matters is that there were credible rumors of Toys R Us closing down, which then turned out to be true. As far as I can tell, there currently aren't credible rumors of Hascon being cancelled, just some people jumping to conclusions from the news of it being postponed.

[Comedian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Bandai still has the Power Rangers license until March and what have they released in the last six months?

But they did not cancel anything. They just didn’t do anything beyond what was announced. They even reissued the legacy stuff.

Like I said Mattel will most likely not show much new....though I believe there will be some stuff. They may go the reissue route for the end.

[Tomax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

Lol I remember, dude. Many said you were jumping to conclusions. Both admins and members of the Ark dismissed you and your extrapolation of the events that would later unfold as reality. In fact, if I remember correctly, one of the threads you started on the matter was shut down. Only to be replaced a few weeks later by the official breaking news that TRU was indeed going under. I found all of it to be pretty hilarious. Not the aspect of people losing their livelihoods, that was very upsetting in a been there done that sort of way...but the fact that your assessment was spot on and no one ever bothered to extend a mea culpa to you.

...that's your origin story here. You've the makings for a great supervillain in these parts...or a vengeance seeking antihero, at the very least.

bingo !!! you hit the nail on the head !!!
some people are in denial

[DarthKamen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comedian

But they did not cancel anything. They just didn’t do anything beyond what was announced. They even reissued the legacy stuff.

Like I said Mattel will most likely not show much new....though I believe there will be some stuff. They may go the reissue route for the end.

Female Psycho Rangers. As far as we know, they're cancelled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomax

bingo !!! you hit the nail on the head !!!
some people are in denial

No we're choosing not to listen to someone who has no proof of what they are claiming.

[Comedian]

[QUOTE=DarthKamen;783822]Female Psycho Rangers. As far as we know, they're cancelled.

I never thought they had announced them. I think the female issues started before the Hasbro announcement. Game stop saved the day there for some females but they just don’t sell like the guys do. Never did,never will.

[Enigma2K2]

So all those Batmen they flooded the market with didn't help?

[TheBlueMarvel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomax

bingo !!! you hit the nail on the head !!!
some people are in denial

Lol Don't get too far ahead of yourself. TRU closing 200 stores is a different canary in a different mineshaft. I agreed with you back then about the pending doom for TRU. I don't agree with you about Hasbro. Like Mattel, Hasbro is too diversified and makes too many things to disappear overnight. They could lose Marvel and Star Wars and still be relevant. The two scenarios are different...

[Harbinger]

[QUOTE=Comedian;783823]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthKamen

Female Psycho Rangers. As far as we know, they're cancelled.

I never thought they had announced them. I think the female issues started before the Hasbro announcement. Game stop saved the day there for some females but they just don’t sell like the guys do. Never did,never will.

I dunno....id love me some female pyschos.....rangers that is.

[DarthKamen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comedian

I never thought they had announced them. I think the female issues started before the Hasbro announcement. Game stop saved the day there for some females but they just don’t sell like the guys do. Never did,never will.

They were announced. All 5 were announced at the same time, plus an Alpha 5 BAF. No BAF, and no sign of yellow and pink.

[Mister D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeddostotle7

I wonder if Spin Master would use this as an opportunity to start experimenting with 6 (or maybe 3 3/4) inch superarticulated stuff? Doubt it, but it's an interesting thought.

I have to imagine DC/WB wouldn't just toss the AF market aside by giving the license to a company who plans to make Super Paw Patrol figures. I agree itis more likely that SM is looking to grab a bigger share of the toy market and this is an inroad to boys action figures. The only concern is whether they will have the talent to get off to a good start or if they are going to have a long learning curve.

[faelon]

Just a few thoughts. Mattel losing the expensive license that they have seemingly never been able to fully exploit well is not surprising. Heck the same thing happened with Disney Princesses. I’m sure there were dissatisfactions on both sides between Mattel and WB. The trashfire and thus short shelf life of the DCEU movies has likely ticked off Mattel, while the inability to strongly bring quality stuff to market or exploit the successes, such as Wonder Woman likely ticked off WB. At the end of the day it was probably given Mattel’s financial hits, they were unwilling to pay WB’s asking price. So they went their separate ways.

But Spin-Master picking it up is... interesting. It tells us a lot. It tells us the other big players didn’t want it..YET! Let’s be honest, no way was WB/DC selecting Spin-Master as their first choice. Hasbro is likely precluded from it by their Disney/Marvel stuff. But for it not to go to Playmates? Or Bandai/Tamashii Nations given their North American push? It says they either didn’t want it, or didn’t want it at the price WB was demanding. Which makes sense. The sad truth is Spider-Man and Black Panther are outselling Batman by orders of magnitude. And Batman is really the only Evergreen property in the lineup.

So it falls to Spin-Master. But for a three year deal, which is pretty much the smallest period you can effectively write, outside of a very short one and done Movie property. It’s basically WB is taking Spin-Master for a test drive. My gut is screaming that neither will be really satisfied, but they are the two dorky nerds at this dance, and nobody else is willing to dance with them.

Edit; I thought something was familiar about Spin-Master. They took a beating in the TRU meltdown. These are the Hatchimal and Air-Hogs people. They had tens of millions evaporated by TRU. The only company that lost more money on unpaid for product to TRU was Mattel. Hasbro, LEGO and the others saw the writing on the wall and started restricting TRU’s credit well before the crash. Limiting their losses. (I think LEGO lost $25 million) Mattel lost ~$150 mil. I think Spin-Master lost between $70-90 mil. I wonder if DC is a Hail Mary pass for them? Having the valuable license lets them secure needed financing. But not on the best foundation.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comedian

But they did not cancel anything. They just didn’t do anything beyond what was announced. They even reissued the legacy stuff.

Psycho Rangers, Alpha 5 BAF, Legacy Shogun Megazord, etc. I don't even know if the yellow Abaranger ever came out.

Anyway, from what I just read, I guess the figure license is indeed gone to. It sucks to be a DC fan right now, but that does explain why DCC has been half assing their Essentials line as they know there is no competition for them soon. We're either going to have to go with their crap or nothing.

Well in that case, I'll go with nothing.