[cellardoor]

This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check.

Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them?

It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys!
The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging!

[AndyCR75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardoor

This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check.

Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them?

It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys!
The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging!

You KNOW they're swiping those suckers hot off the presses!

[Tarquinius]

Yeaahh. I'd say considering how much they are probably being paid...this is probably another way to supplment some income hahaha.

But hell If i worked in a toy factory, I'd be going in with empty cargo pants in the morning and leaving with full ones in the afternoon ha

[trebleshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardoor

This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check.

Chances are, they were stolen out of the factory before or during the QC portion of the process. Unless there's some kind of deliberate defacement of the figure (big slash through the figure or the like), then it is not a QC cast-off.

Quote:

Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them?

It's not common practice, but it is frequently the reason we see new figures on Ebay before anywhere else.

I believe Hasbro has a "zero tolerance" policy about it. Generally, though, a factory employee could get fired for doing it. Or the contractor could pull the entire order and go to a different factory, costing the first factory a lot of money. So these workers don't smuggle out toys without some risk involved. Unfortunately, from what I understand, the factory workers make enough off these stolen toys that they feel the risk is worth the reward.

Quote:

It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys!
The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging!

Keep in mind the reason they take these toys isn't to help out collectors or keep them - it's to make money. Whether that's to support their families or earn enough not to work in a factory anymore is anyone's guess. Some may even do it just for the thrill.

Are you so sure you'd be willing to risk your livelihood were you in their situation?

[brianregan09]

I suppose think of it this way if you're family is starving you'd do anything to make money for them so i'm sure they don't think of it as a risk probaly there only option

[Jason Abbadon]

I bought an ebay Mandarin that way- though I did not know the particulars.
Conditions in China suck-I'm not adverse to helping some sneaky bastard out while saving myself $90 or so in the process.
Also consider that HASBRO's policies of short-running certain figures is the root of this practice- thay know it drives interest and the collector's market, and this is a side effect.

[Shin Densetsu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardoor

This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check.

Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them?

It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys!
The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging!

This is done because an ebay auction for a loose, upcoming figure typically nets more money for the seller than his day job at the factory. This isn't an excuse but the reason. Hasbro knows where each sample is coming from and leaked samples have been on auctions for years, in fact, they were much more prevalent years back.

[cellardoor]

I think moral absolutism is flawed, especially when you consider the simple need to provide for yourself, let alone a family.
Stealing bread to feed yourself is perfectly fine in my eyes, and if a worker in Dongguan province is on the Chinese minimum wage (around US$100 a month) then the calculated risk of removing surplus toys and selling them for profit is exactly the same.
The Loki figure I bought was £10. That's the same as almost a weeks worth of factory labour in China.
It's a calculated risk to take and if I lived on the edge of poverty it's one I wouldn't even think twice about. Hasbro still make a profit by under-paying employees and over-charging customers, toys still get sold and somewhere along the line a human being makes their life a little bit easier by exploiting the supplier-demand system intelligently.

[AndyCR75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardoor

I think moral absolutism is flawed, especially when you consider the simple need to provide for yourself, let alone a family.
Stealing bread to feed yourself is perfectly fine in my eyes, and if a worker in Dongguan province is on the Chinese minimum wage (around US$100 a month) then the calculated risk of removing surplus toys and selling them for profit is exactly the same.
The Loki figure I bought was £10. That's the same as almost a weeks worth of factory labour in China.
It's a calculated risk to take and if I lived on the edge of poverty it's one I wouldn't even think twice about. Hasbro still make a profit by under-paying employees and over-charging customers, toys still get sold and somewhere along the line a human being makes their life a little bit easier by exploiting the supplier-demand system intelligently.

well said, my friend.

[trebleshot]

Personally, I don't condone the idea, but being a father of two, I can certainly understand the motivation. Especially considering the lack of alternatives for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

Also consider that HASBRO's policies of short-running certain figures is the root of this practice- thay know it drives interest and the collector's market, and this is a side effect.

Hasbro doesn't make any money off the secondary market, and they definitely don't make any money off black market sales. So why would they care what the secondary market is doing? And if a toy gets stolen off the assembly line, Hasbro doesn't see any of that profit. In fact, they lose money since they can't sell that figure to the retailers.

[hrothgars]

I might need to wash my DCUC short-haired Aquaman.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebleshot

Personally, I don't condone the idea, but being a father of two, I can certainly understand the motivation. Especially considering the lack of alternatives for them.



Hasbro doesn't make any money off the secondary market, and they definitely don't make any money off black market sales. So why would they care what the secondary market is doing? And if a toy gets stolen off the assembly line, Hasbro doesn't see any of that profit. In fact, they lose money since they can't sell that figure to the retailers.

It generates hype and if people are looking for a rare figure, they're looking at all those other figures while they hunt.
All of us have gone hunting for some particular figure only to find somethng we sorta wanted and bought just so the trip was not for nothing.

Hasbro does not really care about a figure or ten going awol via ebay- it's very very minor..
Speaking of which- I just got my Mandarin in the post!My roommmate bought him on eby for $15 and $4 in shipping- it came right from China and I dont see how anyone made a killing off this with shipping rates and all that- and it arrived in ten days!
As a collector, I feel pretty damn great having got this for under $20!
And no, he has no sword or helmet- the pic on ebay did not have it either and I could care less- those would have gone in a box anyway.

It came from Guandong....no clue if that's where MU figs are made or if this guy bought one cheap and sold it cheap.

I'm happy.

[Shin Densetsu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

It generates hype and if people are looking for a rare figure, they're looking at all those other figures while they hunt.
All of us have gone hunting for some particular figure only to find somethng we sorta wanted and bought just so the trip was not for nothing.

Hasbro does not really care about a figure or ten going awol via ebay- it's very very minor..
Speaking of which- I just got my Mandarin in the post!My roommmate bought him on eby for $15 and $4 in shipping- it came right from China and I dont see how anyone made a killing off this with shipping rates and all that- and it arrived in ten days!
As a collector, I feel pretty damn great having got this for under $20!
And no, he has no sword or helmet- the pic on ebay did not have it either and I could care less- those would have gone in a box anyway.

It came from Guandong....no clue if that's where MU figs are made or if this guy bought one cheap and sold it cheap.

I'm happy.

It's essentially free advertising and builds anticipation for collectors. For example the Iron Man 2 exo armors. If those were canceled we may have never seen them. However, now that we have, it's obvious, from the feedback, that fans want them. This let's hasbro know there is demand.

[Saint Phe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebleshot

Personally, I don't condone the idea, but being a father of two, I can certainly understand the motivation. Especially considering the lack of alternatives for them.



Hasbro doesn't make any money off the secondary market, and they definitely don't make any money off black market sales. So why would they care what the secondary market is doing? And if a toy gets stolen off the assembly line, Hasbro doesn't see any of that profit. In fact, they lose money since they can't sell that figure to the retailers.

There's NO WAY you really think Hasbro doesn't care anything about the secondary market. You be trollin'.

[cellardoor]

I wonder if the secondary market, especially ebay, plays into Hasbro's costing.
And just FYI, Guandong is the epicentre in China! Its the main production site for Hasbro's toys.

[behindthemask]

Hasbro Cares about making money plain and simple, I would assume a billion dollary company would have advanced security measures for it's employees and workers to avoid major press leaks before work is actually complete, the same way FORD,GMC,CHEVY etc do with all their new toys, they test them and make sure everything is perfect before showings pics to the general public. With toys it's different, for all we know Hasbro has in their contract with the factory workers your allowed to take x # of figures /week/month/year or at the very least major discount if they wanted to buy any, from there go to ebay see what's selling for the most and aim to take thoose. There is also the robin-hood side of the story, worker who works hard to support his family. steals from the big Monster Hasbro, in returns sells the toys for enough profit/risk to justify supporting his family. Frankly Hasbro and it's top level works and design frame ain't making $100/month more like $100-1000/day! as long as they meet their quota who cares how many extra copies get made/stolen/broken?

Frankily I don't condone it but don't hate bash, it gives us the chance to see merch before hasbro even decided to release it, opportunities for collectors to find missing holes in their collection for cheap/cheaper then retail/scalper. It allows customizers rescources to more fodder parts for cheap, and allows die-hards the options to army build at not a crazy amount of $$ doing so, I always see this seller who has 4-5 red ninja's for like $5... hells ya.

[logain99]

I was wondering the same thing. I saw a guy selling the ML Deadpool 2 pack variant for 9.99 buy it now. He had about 80 of them.
There are sellers selling them now, but from older lines. Could they be counterfeit?

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by logain99

I was wondering the same thing. I saw a guy selling the ML Deadpool 2 pack variant for 9.99 buy it now. He had about 80 of them.
There are sellers selling them now, but from older lines. Could they be counterfeit?

I wondered this myself when I got a Legends Black variant X-23 for 3.95 and he had 20 still left.

I've never bought legends before so I don't know the plastic grades, but it does feel different than the typical figures I've had before. I also had to fix spots of her, as the pegs in the knees, and ankles weren't all the way through their spots leaving them kind of dangling half on. Easy fix with two hard objects to push the peg through the rest of the way and lock it in place, but it certainly was odd.

At the cost, the age of the figure, and the perfectness of it's condition besides that small correction, I'm not going to complain. It still seems odd though.

[Amalberga81]

usually as collector i dont like to buy some stuff like this, but honestly for some exception like build an army like skrull, hand ninja, shield soldier, hydra army yes i have recently bought reject product from china. but i just buy for all HASBRO product not Toybiz.
For me, the price yes that very cheap and worth it for that kind of product, but sometimes after bought it, i kinda feel not enjoy to have that. not too satisfy the same as we get original stuff to get that kind of product. but not all collector have a enough money to buy this kind of thing which every year the price for the toys always raising up, so somehow i can understand about this

[trebleshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

It generates hype and if people are looking for a rare figure, they're looking at all those other figures while they hunt.
All of us have gone hunting for some particular figure only to find somethng we sorta wanted and bought just so the trip was not for nothing.

While that may be true, it's not like Hasbro (or any toy company) is doing that on purpose. If that's all it took for everyone to look at and/or buy the other figures in the stores, then why would they waste all that money on standard advertising? What would be the point of toy commercials or newspaper/Internet ads? Why even bother creating fiction and other media about their properties?

When we buy other things while hunting for a specific toy, that is more of a side-effect of our lack of self-control than the Evil Machinizations of Hasbro Corporate. We really can't blame Hasbro because we can't say no. That's like an obese person blaming McDonald's for being fat.

Seriously, collectors are not the main market for toys. We make up a small percentage at most, while children (and parents) constitute the bulk of the purchasing power. We are just not that important to the bottom line. Sure, Hasbro does appreciate the fans and when they can, they do add things for us. Also, there are certain lines that are specifically tailored to collectors. But Marvel Universe is not one of them. It is still a mass-market product, and as such is still aimed at kids.

The stuff Hasbro does for collectors? SDCC exclusives. MDC Nick Fury and Archangel. The Fans' Choice poll and figures.

Iron Man armor #316, on the other hand? For the kids.

....well and the odd Iron Man Hall of Armors completist.

Quote:

Hasbro does not really care about a figure or ten going awol via ebay- it's very very minor..

In the overall scheme of things, you're right. The amount of money they lose on those figures isn't that much compared to how much they make on all the ones that are produced and sold at retail. But that may be changing, especially since Ebay auctions like that have been in decline in recent years. It was a lot more widespread back then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Phe

There's NO WAY you really think Hasbro doesn't care anything about the secondary market. You be trollin'.

When it comes to the bottom line, that is exactly what I think. Hasbro's already made their money on products that hit the secondary market. From a marketing standpoint, however, I'm sure Hasbro does keep an eye on the market trends. I'm also certain that their legal department keeps an eye on the market too - especially when it involves their as-yet-unreleased products or KO of their products. Even the R&D department might even look at the secondary market for possible ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by behindthemask

Hasbro Cares about making money plain and simple, I would assume a billion dollary company would have advanced security measures for it's employees and workers to avoid major press leaks before work is actually complete, the same way FORD,GMC,CHEVY etc do with all their new toys, they test them and make sure everything is perfect before showings pics to the general public.

True, but many auto makers own their own assembly plants. Toy companies like Hasbro and Mattel do not.

Quote:

With toys it's different, for all we know Hasbro has in their contract with the factory workers your allowed to take x # of figures /week/month/year or at the very least major discount if they wanted to buy any, from there go to ebay see what's selling for the most and aim to take thoose.

Wait...how do we all know this again? Have you seen a contract between Hasbro and an Asian toy factory where it states this provision?

If it was legal and authorized by Hasbro, per the contract item you mentioned, then why would auctions like these get taken down all the time by Ebay at the request of Hasbro and others?

Don't get me wrong, I never said I had a problem with what the factory workers do, or what my fellow collectors spend their money on. Moral ambiguities aside, I'm just pointing out the situation.

[Saint Phe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trebleshot

When it comes to the bottom line, that is exactly what I think. Hasbro's already made their money on products that hit the secondary market. From a marketing standpoint, however, I'm sure Hasbro does keep an eye on the market trends. I'm also certain that their legal department keeps an eye on the market too - especially when it involves their as-yet-unreleased products or KO of their products. Even the R&D department might even look at the secondary market for possible ideas.

Secondary market heat drives interest in the brand, which has a direct impact on the bottom line. Period. And once again, there is NO WAY you don't know that. You still trollin'.

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Phe

Secondary market heat drives interest in the brand, which has a direct impact on the bottom line. Period. And once again, there is NO WAY you don't know that. You still trollin'.

Missed the part where he said "gauging market trends" did you?

Aside from that already-mentioned point (again, you must've just missed it), no, Hasbro doesn't give a hoot about the secondary market when they made their money two steps further back in the chain.

[trebleshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Phe

Secondary market heat drives interest in the brand, which has a direct impact on the bottom line. Period. And once again, there is NO WAY you don't know that. You still trollin'.

If the "heat" you're referring to includes pre-production, prototype and otherwise unreleased toys, they are not considered part of the "secondary market". By definition, those types of items haven't hit the primary market yet (i.e. retail). And retail sales is Hasbro's bottom line. Secondary market items have already gone through regular retail and by that point, Hasbro's already made its money on those items.

[Saint Phe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

Missed the part where he said "gauging market trends" did you?

Aside from that already-mentioned point (again, you must've just missed it), no, Hasbro doesn't give a hoot about the secondary market when they made their money two steps further back in the chain.

Dude, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with "gauging market trends". Thanks for your input, though.

And Trebleshot, I'm not talking specifically about unreleased toys. Your original comment that I responded to was talking about the secondary market, so that's all I'm talking about. There's no use debating definitions.

Once again, heat on the secondary market can absolutely intensify consumer interest in the brand, which directly impacts sales. That's all I'm saying.

[scarecrow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Phe

Dude, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with "gauging market trends". Thanks for your input, though.

And Trebleshot, I'm not talking specifically about unreleased toys. Your original comment that I responded to was talking about the secondary market, so that's all I'm talking about. There's no use debating definitions.

Once again, heat on the secondary market can absolutely intensify consumer interest in the brand, which directly impacts sales. That's all I'm saying.

No name-calling. - Toyark Staff.