[K Dubious]

I just wanted to put this thought out there, as it came up when talking to my Girlfriend's Dad last night. I still remember watching Saturday morning cartoons, which were more or less commercials for toys with a story attached. Plus I vividly remember all the actual commercials for the new toys. I recall loving the Batman Animated series toy commercials, but for whatever reason I never collected them.

This all got brought up because we were talking about the original Transformers movie, the one from the 80's, which was slightly before my time yet still hits hard to me. Basically TMNT, Transformers, and He-man were all created to sell toys. The Transformers Movie was released to kill off all the characters/toys you already owned so that they could introduce more characters/make more toys and keep the kids constantly wanting the newest characters.

It never failed when watching the newest episode of TMNT and a new character would be introduced on the show, then as soon as the episode is over the commercial for the new toy of that character would air. It was a science that proved to work, every new cartoon had a toyline that co-existed with it, it was great.

So now fast forward 20 some-odd years to the technological age we live in now. I know there are still cartoons on today, but the toys that go along with them are hardly toys. I feel like there are more like statues, with little to no articulation. If you can't actually "play" with them why would a kid want it?

Other than turtles which were brought back in 2013 I believe (I know they have been brought back a few times over the years) and are still being made by playmates the original company that made them in the 80's, I can't think of any other cartoon that makes quality toys based on the show.

Also through other conversations on other threads here it seems that the younger generations have been spoon fed tech their entire life. So the ages of imaginative play range from only about 3-7 and then it is all video games and ipads, which makes me horribly sad.

I know that I am a 30 year old kid that refused to grow up, which I honestly felt was the vibe of the late 80's and 90's. I just hate that future generations will not have that same sense of attachment to their childhood toys and shows since everything seems to cater to video games and technology. I feel I should also note that I am an avid gamer and have always loved games since the days on Nintendo, but I never let that control my actions. I played outside and had some pretty elaborate battles with the neighborhood kids and toys as well.

I guess my point is that I feel the golden age of toys is over. I wish that a new cartoon could be released that the future generations could stand behind and have it be their piece of childhood that could never be replaced. I like that we are still getting versions of TMNT, Marvel, and Transformers in movie form, I just wish that creativity still existed and that something new could come along and actually stick.

[En Sabah Nerd]

I think the last time I saw a toy commercial for action figures related to a specific cartoon was when Dave Filoni's The Clone Wars started in 2008 and after one episode I remember seeing a commercial for the 3.75" line and the vehicles that went with them. That's the last time I remember seeing a toy commercial related to the show that was airing, and not within Christmas shopping season. However I do see role play toys like that Spider-Man web shooter, Hulk hands, or Iron Man masks getting some screen time whenever a new movie gets buzz, but that's not the same.

[Steevy Maximus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Dubious

So now fast forward 20 some-odd years to the technological age we live in now. I know there are still cartoons on today, but the toys that go along with them are hardly toys. I feel like there are more like statues, with little to no articulation. If you can't actually "play" with them why would a kid want it?

Ummm, you DO remember the toys you played with right? Aside from GI Joe (or lines derived from them), effectively EVERY TOY we played with, were 5 POA and largely unable to replicate what we saw on screen. Batman and Star Wars had DECADE long runs based almost entirely on 5 POA action figures.

We "couldn't play" with them either, didn't stop many of us from getting dozens of products related to them.

Quote:

Other than turtles which were brought back in 2013 I believe (I know they have been brought back a few times over the years) and are still being made by playmates the original company that made them in the 80's, I can't think of any other cartoon that makes quality toys based on the show.

Transformers (despite complaints) still makes damn solid toys based on its cartoons. Bandai's work on the attempted Thundercats reboot was pretty solid as well.
The sad fact is that there are simply fewer new "toy centric" cartoon properties being produced these days.

Quote:

I guess my point is that I feel the golden age of toys is over.

They are, and have been since the 90s.
Action figures are a declining segment, due in no small part to:
-increase costs from China, resulting in higher prices for the product
-Reduced retail competition (stores used to use toys as loss leaders, with less than half a dozen national chains actively carrying toys, and Walmart selling more than 3/4s of them, there is no incentive to keep prices as low as they had been), which has also lead to higher prices
-Combining the above to with a trend in the late 2000s to appeal to collectors (who generally demanded more articulation, paint apps and accessories) lead to further price increases. There is a reason a Star Wars Black 3.75 figure is now $12.99 compared to $5.99 for a Saga Legends figure (and no, it's not greed by Hasbro).
-Cultural changes (ie, the increased exposure to iPads and such)

Quote:

I wish that a new cartoon could be released that the future generations could stand behind and have it be their piece of childhood that could never be replaced. I like that we are still getting versions of TMNT, Marvel, and Transformers in movie form, I just wish that creativity still existed and that something new could come along and actually stick.

So...newer kids can't stand behind THEIR versions of TMNT or Transformers? We're reaching an age where kids who played Pokemon Red and blue are now adults with kids of their own. There are collectors on forums these days whose first Transformers series was Armada, which came out when I was in high school.

It's worth remembering that a HUGE reason we collectors even see stuff like Star Wars Black or Transformers Generations or Marvel Legends, is because there are millions of kids buying the Titan Heroes that help subsidize the cost of the collector stuff we so enjoy.

[kylactus]

I think it's kind of sad that beyond the 80's there seems to be a lack of original thinking in the cartoon/toy industry. Hell look at the comments "Their" version of TMNT or Transformers. I'm not saying that these characters should be retired, but why the hell isn't anyone inventing anything new for these genera? I can't think of much past the 90's that was introduced, in the way of action sci-fi comic type characters/ Stories that strike me as lasting or epic in the way that say DC, Marvel Universe, Star Wars, Ghost Busters, He-man, Star Trek, TMNT, Transformers, Indiana Jones do. It seems to me that there is way to much out there going to the same old well instead of trying to make something new.
I think it boils down to this, In the 80's and early 90's, most of us had between 8 and 12 channels and most cable channels had little original programing geared towards kids, this meant that every kid in America watched the same cartoons on the same couple channels (my personal crack was fox Saturday mornings). this gave every kid in the country a shared experience and a shared cultural identity. now it depends on what cable provider, or satellite you have or what a particular kids parents choose to expose them to o the net as to what cartoons a child is exposed to. This is also why you don't see as many "famous" commercials and PSAs like when we were kids. also no more of those "say no to drugs" and "stay away from strangers" after school specials... because networks don't have after school programs... unless you count Dr. Phil. in short I think the lack of good cartoons, and therefore good cartoon toys is because a fundamental shift in the structure of TV networks.

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steevy Maximus

We "couldn't play" with them either, didn't stop many of us from getting dozens of products related to them.

I played the shit out of my 5POA power of the force toys, I would spend almost all day inside with my Star Wars toys playing with my brother. Don't act like limited pose counters playability, it just means I could throw Darth Vader at Chewbacca like a goddamned rocket and not worry about him breaking so I could do it again later.

[Skoob]

I hope these points are reasonably self-evident:

1. Thematically, there is nothing new under the sun. The human condition hasn't changed since our ancestors sat around their first campfire. There are only a few major themes: growing up / rite of passage, seeking purpose, love and relationships, righting wrongs / redemption / conflict resolution, puzzle or problem solving, travel in strange lands, pursuit of dreams, lessons learned. Everything "new" is really just stuff that's been done before, recombined and reconstituted in different ratios like favorite kitchen recipes.

2. What is new to a child becomes less so as we age. Good storytelling is a blend of science and art, keeping audiences engaged through careful planning and a variety of tools: sympathetic identification with a hero who "could be one of us," relevance to current affairs with the promise of unique insight, rationing details and special effects to tantalize, embellishing to pre-empt questioning and lend plausibility, and so on, making sure that all the pieces are presented well and purposefully, contributing to a greater whole.

3. The power of storytelling lies in its ability to make believe, because to varying degrees, we emulate (copy) people we admire. Literally, good stories are a form of predictive programming, packaging values and standards for conduct that influence our own behaviour when we encounter parallel situations.

4. Popular culture is an advanced field of mass marketing that uses storytelling as a way to introduce new fashions and language and trends. The audience is a manipulated community of admirers and copycats. Conformism is a powerful motivator. We buy stuff and adjust our behaviour in other ways for the purpose of identifying ourselves with our heroes and with others who share that interest. The primary driver behind it all is money. As long as there is good money to be made from entertainment and merchandising, the two will continue to go hand-in-hand. I certainly don't see that changing, do you?

So the only thing that we can conclude about those who express frustration with the lack of anything "new" is that they aren't kids anymore, and they're starting to observe the overlap between what we're given now and stories told before. From a broader perspective, it's also true that whole cultures have their narratives that involve beginnings and endings, and one wonders sometimes if the best stories and artifacts from a particular culture are unique to one period in its history and if the best is yet to come, but from a different people in a different part of the world.

In the meantime, we have our action figures and other toys, souvenirs from the stories and experiences important to us during the time that we have. It could be argued that our favorite toys anchor us in this changing world. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't keep any of his or her old toys.

[jestermon]

There were tons of toys from the 80's that had no cartoons.

[Skoob]

Absolutely! But there's no denying the tremendous expansion of licensing. A concise report with straightforward statistics for the industry as a whole seems hard to find without going through a paywall or subscribing to trade periodicals, but the trend emerges from a quick search:

Global Licensing Continues to Stimulate Traditional Toys and Games (Euromonitor.com paid research report)

Global Licensing Trends in Traditional Toys and Games (Euromonitor.com paid research report)

NPD Group Reports U.S. Sales of Licensed Toys Grew 3 Percent in 2013 (NPD.com)

Walmart’s Kid-Approved 2014 Holiday Toy List Reveals New Trends: Big Licenses for Movie, TV Fans (WalMart.com)

These are just random examples from search results, not endorsements.

[RKillian]

I do recall thinking that there's an extraordinary lack of communication between toymakers and studios. Didn't we have Animated on TV for almost a year before the toys hit shelves? Why were the Venture Brothers toys released in the middle of the multi-year lulls between seasons 3-4-5 and in season 1-2 costumes? Would DCUC have fared any better if it had been timed with either Justice League Unlimited or Brave and the Bold, both of which frequently showcased B-listers and C-listers? Could Hasbro have made the first 3-4 waves of Equestria Girls dolls look any less like the character models from the movie(s)? How about Mattel's most recent phantom Voltron line? Aren't we still waiting for RiD 2015 to air? And so on.

[CMIII]

The only existing toy lines I have seen with commercials are Lego and Marvel Mash UP's well and crayola

[Steevy Maximus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKillian

I do recall thinking that there's an extraordinary lack of communication between toymakers and studios. Didn't we have Animated on TV for almost a year before the toys hit shelves? Why were the Venture Brothers toys released in the middle of the multi-year lulls between seasons 3-4-5 and in season 1-2 costumes? Would DCUC have fared any better if it had been timed with either Justice League Unlimited or Brave and the Bold, both of which frequently showcased B-listers and C-listers? Could Hasbro have made the first 3-4 waves of Equestria Girls dolls look any less like the character models from the movie(s)? How about Mattel's most recent phantom Voltron line? Aren't we still waiting for RiD 2015 to air? And so on.

Dude, you are ALL OVER the place with this posting, from differing times, market needs, market direction, just ALL OVER.

Transformers Animated was aired about 6 months before toys hit, due to the demand from retail for more Transformers movie product. Prime starting airing late 2010, but the primary toys didn't hit retail until 2011, again, due to concessions for the movie product lines.
RiD2015 toys have only started to hit in the last 2-3 weeks, and the show will probably be airing by March. Hardly a crippling gap (Beast Machines figures hit 4-5 months after the show aired, Armada and Beast Wars toys preceded their shows by a couple months, etc).

Don't know what you're talking about with DCUC since the line was out and in full swing throughout Brave and the bold's run.

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steevy Maximus

(Beast Machines figures hit 4-5 months after the show aired, Armada and Beast Wars toys preceded their shows by a couple months, etc).

Fun fact: that's why the Beast Wars toy bios don't reflect the show at all. The toy bios made it sound like Beast Wars was set in a city like modern Earth environment, not prehistoric Earth. On the bio Rhinox was declared not to be a genius, in the show he's the Maximals' resident scientist. Tarantulas was an idiot and a ninja according to the toy, again turns out to be a genius on the show.

[kylactus]

I think the most spot on TV/toy conversion going right now has to be Ninja Turtles, The products like the Party Wagon, Bebop and Rocksteady, and the spirit warrior turtles were announced and before they even made appearances on the show. Hell I think the first sighting of the Party Wagon at retail was the same day it appeared in the show for the first time. but I think they strike a good balance of marketing and product offering, without making the show into a thirty minute commercial.

[K Dubious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylactus

I think the most spot on TV/toy conversion going right now has to be Ninja Turtles, The products like the Party Wagon, Bebop and Rocksteady, and the spirit warrior turtles were announced and before they even made appearances on the show. Hell I think the first sighting of the Party Wagon at retail was the same day it appeared in the show for the first time. but I think they strike a good balance of marketing and product offering, without making the show into a thirty minute commercial.

Couldn't agree more. TMNT IMO is the only show that seems to want to produced toys that go along with the show. They have been doing it since the 90's. I feel like it is somewhat ironic that when I was a kid all I wanted was action figures for x-mas especially TMNT. Now fast forward 20+ years later and the hottest toys this past holiday season were the turtles!

I just think there should be division of toy companies that work hand and hand with the production studios behind cartoons so that the toys can reflect the shows. I know this occasionally happens like the cartoon Avengers that came out last year for the Avengers EMH, but all we got were the main good guys and two villians. I would have loved a line that made any and everybody form that show.

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jestermon

There were tons of toys from the 80's that had no cartoons.

Sure. But few if any of the really successful toys lacked a cartoon or movie tie-in.

[warmachine6]

your question is wrong its the over way around, shows need toys merchandising and gaining extra money.
Comic-book characters can stand alone, and maybe some video game and movie toys

[CMIII]

DCUC ran concurrent with the TV series Batman Brave and Bold, Young Justice, Green Lantern, and Enter the Batman. That being said the actual TV series who influence can be seen in DCUC is Super Friends. By an large the line followed the Comic Book appearences more often then not. We did get version of Batman from TV/Movies (Enter the Batman and the Dark Knight Returns) but these do not appear until Mattel effectively killed the line. I know Cartoon Network has claimed the lack of sales of the Young Justice figures killed the TV Series.

[Primacron]

If it wasn't for cartoons I don't think I would collect toys.

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primacron

If it wasn't for cartoons I don't think I would collect toys.

I dunno about that for myself, Star Wars and comic books got me into toys to begin with. Yeah I got Beast Wars very much because I liked the show, but I was already getting Star Wars and comic book toys before that.

[Primacron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by En Sabah Nerd

I dunno about that for myself, Star Wars and comic books got me into toys to begin with. Yeah I got Beast Wars very much because I liked the show, but I was already getting Star Wars and comic book toys before that.

Cartoons got me into reading comics! Could probably say films as well.

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primacron

Cartoons got me into reading comics! Could probably say films as well.

That's pretty neat, I guess I never thought of it that way since I was the other way around where I was reading comics and then I saw about a show based on whichever one and I was all "that sounds awesome!" Now I kind of want Hasbro to make a Supaidaman (Japanese live action TV series) with Leopardon just because he actually finally showed up in the comics. Don't get me wrong, that show was totally nuts and just used Spider-Man's name and likeness for attention grabbing, but hey the Japanese had to learn about Spider-Man somehow.

[RKillian]

I suggest that you review the timelines of DCUC, DCSH, DCIE/DCSC, JL/JLU, TBTB, and the overlap between any of them. Then consider the character selection, those included as well as those missing, in relation to those timelines. Then feel free to explain why the breakout character of TBTB was not even rumored while an entire wave of SuperFriends saw wide release. For bonus points, how many kids do you think signed up for a MattyCollector subscription?

[CMIII]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKillian

I suggest that you review the timelines of DCUC, DCSH, DCIE/DCSC, JL/JLU, TBTB, and the overlap between any of them. Then consider the character selection, those included as well as those missing, in relation to those timelines. Then feel free to explain why the breakout character of TBTB was not even rumored while an entire wave of SuperFriends saw wide release. For bonus points, how many kids do you think signed up for a MattyCollector subscription?

To answer the 2nd first. 0, it is possible that a parent did buy for their kid. The main reason I say Super friend influenced DCUC is that the Super Powers figures are based on the Kenner line by the same name. Kenner ran that line in association with Super Friends TV series.