[cellardoor]

What it boils down to is that there are many types of collector.
The buy two, one for display, one for 30 years from now are a unique breed. We all share a common thread, we see something cool and we want to own it, possess it, make it ours. If we were different we'd just look at pictures of toys and never buy them.
It gets more granular though, within that archetype of collector are many psychological variants, just like our toys!
Some will never be satisifed.
Some will never be satisifed until they own every possible variation of that one great piece. What strikes me as odd about raf's collection is that I can barely see the differences he points out but i'm sure that's all he sees. I think that black widow MU is dogshit so I wouldn't buy it now. I bought it before as that was the only known option. But now she's retired and replaced with the avengers assemble fig as it's just great to look at and pose.
My Wave 1 Daredevil is now in the hands of a friend's kid because, hot damn, the comic pack version is way, way better.
But that's not to say the value isn't there, it's very much in the eye of the beholder.
That Warpath case is a good one.
And Vision is a hot-bed. There is no guarantee we'll see another released so we make do. The buck isn't great but the finish is fantastic and, when stood next to Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, or hovering over the Avengers, cowed in front of Ultron, that's where I see the value in the figure. I did only spend £8.99 on it though so what do I know!

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardoor

What it boils down to is that there are many types of collector.
The buy two, one for display, one for 30 years from now are a unique breed. We all share a common thread, we see something cool and we want to own it, possess it, make it ours. If we were different we'd just look at pictures of toys and never buy them.
It gets more granular though, within that archetype of collector are many psychological variants, just like our toys!
Some will never be satisifed.
Some will never be satisifed until they own every possible variation of that one great piece. What strikes me as odd about raf's collection is that I can barely see the differences he points out but i'm sure that's all he sees. I think that black widow MU is dogshit so I wouldn't buy it now. I bought it before as that was the only known option. But now she's retired and replaced with the avengers assemble fig as it's just great to look at and pose.
My Wave 1 Daredevil is now in the hands of a friend's kid because, hot damn, the comic pack version is way, way better.
But that's not to say the value isn't there, it's very much in the eye of the beholder.
That Warpath case is a good one.
And Vision is a hot-bed. There is no guarantee we'll see another released so we make do. The buck isn't great but the finish is fantastic and, when stood next to Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, or hovering over the Avengers, cowed in front of Ultron, that's where I see the value in the figure. I did only spend £8.99 on it though so what do I know!

Very well said my friend! I always enjoy posting pics of the stuff I find to encourage other MOC collectors that the figures do exist, that if I can find them so can anybody else. When I started collecting years ago, I would hate when people posted about a rare item but never provided proof or facts that it really existed. For me, as a MOC collector, it's all about that feeling you get when you know something you don't have is "out there" and you just have to search everywhere you possibly can to find it... "stay thirsty my friends!"...

[Iceman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3233rafael

Lol, just because you don't like them doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't like them either. My list stands! Prove me wrong with evidence not words my friend.

See, that's just dismissive right there with no reason. You haven't proven yourself right. It's not about me liking them or not. I never said you weren't allowed your preferences either. I've given examples of how the market clearly shows that very few collectors care about things like the different nameplate or upside-down packaging. The prices just aren't there and that alone proves a lack of a market. I think the people that have to have them get those variants fast and that's that. Even a a lot of MOC collectors don't feel the need to hunt down this stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukmu

We will get a movie figure of The Vision and maybe even a movie variant of comic style. Still isn't the original.... more like a kit car of a classic. Maybe, maybe a new version of him in MI. Nothing will make his value drop and he will one day be the sole $1000 figure of the line in a long enough time line. He is th MU (open anyway) holy grail.. the reissue would not be MU.

NOT TRYING TO PICK A FIGHT.... just my opinion that because something new comes out that the new thing can replace and erase demand for the old thing.... in fact, history tells us it is the opposite. When he is seen on the big screen, demand for the classic COULD go through the roof.

I guarantee you that if MI puts Vision into a wave with the same mold and paint all the MU Visions will be forgotten. It's just math. The amount of people that want one would go way down to only MOC completeists. Even a new mold will make buyers for the past one disappear if it's better. They may never reissue him or make another comic version but i'd bet they will. Hasbro has said repeatedly that they don't make figures for the secondary market. Anything is fair game to get remade or repackaged. I think can't imagine a figure made in the quantity that Vision likely was fetching $1000. There are true vintage figures that are much rarer and don't command that price and those things were made before anyone thought to collect stuff. Modern figures are collected and preserved in far greater numbers.


At the end of the day, it's all about what people are willing to pay. Remember, collectors in general want everything for cheap. They complain about price increases and having to pay $5 for shipping on that figure they can't find. Cheaper wins out and we've seen that with new versions or reissues of everything from DC figures to Transformers (could give dozens of examples). I know if I paid $100 for a figure I wouldn't want to take a loss to sell him later but that happens to people a lot. Remember the phasing Visions that first showed up sold for hundreds of dollars. Then six months later we got that revision case with him, red Warpath, and Dark Ms. Marvel. Basically, at that point the only people trying to protect the higher price are those that own the figure and want to sell it. People that don't have the figure don't see the value anymore unless they are like 3233rafael and there isn't enough of them to sustain demand.

Anyway, it's fun having some healthy debate with you guys about these things.

[kylactus]

I don't think your nuts rafael, and I love your collection, need we recall the 90's Star Wars power of the force figures, where collectors paid out the nose for "0" or ".00" or ".000" card backs. for those who don't remember, the figures were exactly the same packaging and all except the production number in the fine print in 1.5mm letters on the back of the card. I thought that was a bit nuts, but for MOC collectors I see the display value packing variants where the figure is in even a slightly different pose. And as far as the value of variants goes its all demand and what the market, us, consider a variant. for instance you can get a prototype Colossus shot in grey and red with no paint on Ebay for 20-40 dollars, had say 50-500 of those had accidently been packed and shipped to stores what do you think the value would be, I do mean the collector value not the hoards of folks who'll say I'm not paying more for an unpainted figure.

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Anyway, it's fun having some healthy debate with you guys about these things.

I absolutely agree with you here! I enjoy this more than you guys can imagine because I "feel" the passion that some of us have about our collections and our way of collecting! For me, I've always said that lose collectors have guts because I could never open an action figure and when I do for my son, it breaks my heart. Lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylactus

I don't think your nuts rafael, and I love your collection,

Lol, thank you! Maybe I am nuts... sometimes!

[Iceman]

I'd love to see a poll of collectors to see who thinks a packaging mistake is valuable variant. Like the odd figure that has the insert for a different character in the wave. I know most time I hear about it it's just people laughing about it while opening the figure. If I was a hardcore MOC guy I would be worried about any of those I didn't find at retail myself. The problem is that if you decide those are worth crazy money then it's incentive for people to make fakes. I wonder how hard it is to make a going liked that. I know some of the customs I see on ebay that have been put on cards look pretty good. I feel like packaging errors are a whole different thing from intended variants. I don't see a ton of people caring about them so I'm curious how most view them.

[Exodus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

See, that's just dismissive right there with no reason. You haven't proven yourself right. It's not about me liking them or not. I never said you weren't allowed your preferences either. I've given examples of how the market clearly shows that very few collectors care about things like the different nameplate or upside-down packaging. The prices just aren't there and that alone proves a lack of a market. I think the people that have to have them get those variants fast and that's that. Even a a lot of MOC collectors don't feel the need to hunt down this stuff.

I'll agree with you there, packaging variants are dumb haha:P I don't consider it a true variant unless the figure has something real different about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

I'd love to see a poll of collectors to see who thinks a packaging mistake is valuable variant. Like the odd figure that has the insert for a different character in the wave. I know most time I hear about it it's just people laughing about it while opening the figure. If I was a hardcore MOC guy I would be worried about any KF those I didn't find at retail myself. The problem is that if you decide those are worth crazy money then it's incentive for people to make fakes. I wonder how hard it is to make a going liked that. I know some of the customs I see on ebay that have been put on cards look pretty good. I feel like packaging errors are a whole different thing from intended variants. I don't see a ton of people caring about them so I'm curious how most view them.

Go for it, poll it either on here or a new thread and see what folks say. Or maybe Trebs can suggest a better way to poll this from the collector's. Here's a good question to ask, do other lines have variants as in figures? I know TF's will have a different variant once in a while whether it be the packaging or a slight color, but I don't believe I've ever read TF collector's going out to pay $ to get them.

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

Go for it, poll it either on here or a new thread and see what folks say. Or maybe Trebs can suggest a better way to poll this from the collector's. Here's a good question to ask, do other lines have variants as in figures? I know TF's will have a different variant once in a while whether it be the packaging or a slight color, but I don't believe I've ever read TF collector's going out to pay $ to get them.

DCUC, DCSH, MOTUC, DC Direct, MK, just to name a few all have variants.

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

I'll agree with you there, packaging variants are dumb haha:P I don't consider it a true variant unless the figure has something real different about it.

I'm just curious, have you always felt that way? I ask because I've read all your older posts on the MU Variant Checklist thread that Shawn Woodbeck created a long time ago and you seem to be interested in the MU variant figs back then...

[Exodus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3233rafael

I'm just curious, have you always felt that way? I ask because I've read all your older posts on the MU Variant Checklist thread that Shawn Woodbeck created a long time ago and you seem to be interested in the MU variant figs back then...

When it's an actual figure like AA Death Heads variant yes, but not when it comes to the packaging or upside down sort of thing no. Thankfully I'm not a completionist.

[ProfessorHov]

Honestly it what makes you happy. There is no collection judge. If you need it all then bam do it if you just want your favorites bam do it. Remember we as collectors put the value on the toy. I'm sure there is someoem who would over pay for a peg warmer because there was none in their area. The value is what you hold it to be. There is a market value that we create.

[3233rafael]

Question... If this rare figure belonged to you, (MOC or lose collectors) would you ever open it?



Be Honest!

[Jimmyo]

Honestly, I would sell it and buy a ton more toys with the money

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyo

Honestly, I would sell it and buy a ton more toys with the money

LMAO! Best answer ever!!

[fosterlager]

I would have bet money that Vision would have been re-released in that WCA three-pack, back when we knew it was coming but before we knew who was in the set.

If they're getting the likes of Whirlwind and Death's Head out, I'm dang sure they're aware Vision needs another go-round eventually. He's B-list but those two are D-list, and I say that as a guy who likes both.

[ultraman zoffy]

If I was lucky enough to be a toy designer, and I spent tons of time making the figures look good while providing them with tons of articulation to make them as enjoyable as possible, I'm pretty sure MOC collectors would bug the hell out of me.
And yeah, exactly right... if I found some rare "variant", I'd sell it to some MOC collector who enjoys that kind of thing and use the proceeds to fund either fodder purchases for customs or new figures that will get posed and displayed. Or even better... open the rare figure up, chop it into pieces for a custom, and post it on FR. =)

[Lionheart]

Late reply...

Quote:

I hope by the "others" you don't mean the rest of my list. The Vision is easy to find compared to the others on my list, just very expensive, the rest of my list is almost impossible to find my friend. Do a little search on eBay, Amazon or anywhere else and find out for yourself.

I certainly did mean the rest of the list!

I’m not questioning the rarity of the ones you listed at all, nor am I saying a completionist with a full collection would not pay through the nose to get the ones they were missing, but I do think that for people who are trying to build a collection getting the right characters comes first, so Vision would be more important than say, Luke Cage with a different shirt, or Black Widow with different hair, etc.

Quote:

If you're an MOC completionist, then your list totally makes sense. But for collectors who don't care about figure/packaging variants, I would agree that Vision tops the list of MU most-wanted/holy grails.

^This^. Personally, although I have a large MU collection, I’m not a MOC collector nor am I a completionist. The only variants I really care about are functional ones (metal Absorbing Man, phasing Vision, etc). I think I’m more like most people in that regard.

Let’s face it, Maria Hill isn’t that rare, but people will pay through the nose for her because they want the character, and she only shipped with a large vehicle.

Quote:

Wow,steady on sportsfan.vision is mediocre if anything,omega red is a nicer figure,as are a ton of Mu,I'm not on board the hype train as far as vision is concerned,in fact I'm actually hoping the rumours of another vision ring through,hopefully it's a superior fig to the g1 Mu vision.

I still say Vision’s paints are among the best. I agree that in terms of buck and other stuff there are much better figures. If Vision was the second buck with the same paint jobs he’d rock...

Are they really going to make another Vis? I hope they do – rarity be damned – no figure should cost what he does. He’ll probs be some freaky update...

Quote:

It's definitely an interesting topic my friends! So now I'm curious... What would be top 6 most "wanted" or desired MU figs for the lose collectors??

I’ll add to Vision and Northstar; Maria Hill, and maybe some of the variants like Astral Strange.

Quote:

Honestly, I would sell it and buy a ton more toys with the money

Me too!

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionheart

Nice list! I still think most peeps would want Vision though, since all the others are minor variants of easier to find figures... just my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionheart

I certainly did me the rest of the list!

I’m not questioning the rarity of the ones you listed at all, nor am I saying a completionist with a full collection would not pay through the nose to get the ones they were missing, but I do think that for people who are trying to build a collection getting the right characters comes first, so Vision would be more important than say, Luke Cage with a different shirt, or Black Widow with different hair, etc.

Ok, what you're saying now makes sense to me (seeing it from a lose collectors point of view), But originally you said, "All the others are minor variants of easier to find figures"... and that's just not true... and if it is, please tell me where cause I'm still missing some figs. Lol!

[bmorr]

hey raf, that short haird widow a few posts up, is that the variant where only like three exist?

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

hey raf, that short haird widow a few posts up, is that the variant where only like three exist?

What's up BMORR... Yes sir! I found her on January 1st of this year actually.

[Lionheart]

Quote:

"All the others are minor variants of easier to find figures"

By that I meant for someone trying to start a collection, they can pick up a Widow (normal haired) or a Luke Cage (regular version) without too much difficulty (loose certainly, but even on card isn't too hard).

[3233rafael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionheart

By that I meant for someone trying to start a collection, they can pick up a Widow (normal haired) or a Luke Cage (regular version) without too much difficulty (loose certainly, but even on card isn't too hard).

Alright, cool!

If I would've known that my list was going to create such a great conversation, I would have posted it a long time ago my friends! This is awesome, I'm really enjoying this topic!

[Iceman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyo

Honestly, I would sell it and buy a ton more toys with the money

Same here. I wouldn't open it for sure. When figures get too pricey I well mine if I can part with it. If one rare figure I can live without buys me 5 or 6 or whatever I'm fine with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fosterlager

I would have bet money that Vision would have been re-released in that WCA three-pack, back when we knew it was coming but before we knew who was in the set.

If they're getting the likes of Whirlwind and Death's Head out, I'm dang sure they're aware Vision needs another go-round eventually. He's B-list but those two are D-list, and I say that as a guy who likes both.

yeah, the WCA pack came out of left field. I think there was only a week between it getting mentioned and seeing pictures of it. In that time we all thought Vision was likely. Maybe they just retired the buck permanently.

[3233rafael]

Showing some love for my loose collectors here... Lol

Here's my sons MU figs!

[Iceman]

^