[Tim]

I’m not touching this one with a 10 foot pole(nitelife joke coming hahaha!)...People on the Internet will complain about anything and everything.

[lordbest]

It's only odd if you don't know the difference between consent and coercion. No, she can wear whatever she wants in her personal life and it shouldn't be expected to have any impact on what she is forced to wear on film, that's disturbing logic. I am going to avoid the most obvious, inflammatory example of where this logic leads.

It does not even remotely invalidate her gripe. If someone visits me at my home willingly, then the next day I force them to come to my house, that's bad regardless of the fact they chose to visit before. If I give you a gift then the next day you take another one without permission, that's still theft etc. etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

I’m not touching this one with a 10 foot pole(nitelife joke coming hahaha!)...People on the Internet will complain about anything and everything.

Yes, imagine being so screwed up you're complaining about a woman not wanting to be forced to wear revealing clothes against her will.

[Weapon X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey

See, I can't agree with this at all. Superman's powerset really isn't that rare in comic books. There's specific things he can do, like ice breath and heat vision that are kinda unique to him, but superheroes that can fly and have super strength are a dime a dozen in comic books.

The real issue, and what many people claim makes Superman "boring" is his personality. He's literally too good. He doesn't have the crippling character flaws that characters like Batman or Spider-Man have and that works against the character, because how do you write a character that is already perfect and give them any meaningful character development or arc that would make them interesting while still having him be Superman?

I will say that the most interesting Superman stories I've read are the ones where you see the effect he has on others. Where he kinda comes down to humanity's level to connect with them on a personal level.

One of my favorite scans of Superman, and the one that made me really love him as a character is where there's a woman who's about to jump off of a building and Superman goes up simply to talk with her. The woman is pretty much sure that she isn't important, yet he sits with her the entire night just to give her somebody to vent to. In this moment, Superman doesn't look like a god or a superhero, he really does look like a long lost friend who's trying to help somebody in their time of need. Somebody who's so dedicated to helping others reach their full potential, and that perfectly embodies what Superman is to me. It's genuinely one of the most heartwarming things in comic books that I've ever read.

EDIT: Here it is: https://imgur.com/gallery/Ijdxh

Movies are not comic books.

The MCU heroes don't all have that unique of powers. Hell, David Dunn in Unbreakable has very basic powers. It's all about how you portray them.

But you'll notice that the most successful heroes have only a couple of powers, something to focus on. Superman has far too many. The dude has taken nukes and been fine, it's ridiculous. You cannot root for a man who can't be hurt aside from a green rock.

Superman is boring because he is a god with one weakness, and his alter ego and personality are boring as heck.

I'll never forget how irritated I was when they decided at the end of Man of Steel to make him be a reporter at the Daily Planet, because not only is it unrealistic that no one recognizes him, but it's also so much more boring than the wanderer he was for most of the film.

I don't care what anyone says, Tim Burton's Superman would have kicked ass because they were reducing his powerset a bit and focusing on him being an alien in our world, and the tremendous burden that places on a person. Man of Steel touched on these things but ultimately dropped the ball.

[Tim]

Wasn’t directed towards anyone particular lordbest. I’m just not looking for a argument over what a woman wears. Especially considering this is a “marvel legends appreciation thread” not “what a celeb wears or doesn’t wear thread” lol the internet is always looking for a argument

[lordbest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Wasn’t directed towards anyone particular lordbest. I’m just not looking for a argument over what a woman wears. Especially considering this is a “marvel legends appreciation thread” not “what a celeb wears or doesn’t wear thread” lol the internet is always looking for a argument

Oh I completely agree, there shouldn't *be* an argument over what any woman wears. I'm honestly shocked, I mean this is kindergarten level stuff "If Billy doesn't want to play with you today, you can't force him just because he played with you yesterday".

That's all there is to it and I won't be continuing this discussion.

Anyway, now that we have X-23 and ANAD Wolverine, I wonder if there is any chance we might get a Honey Badger:

Maybe in a Wolverine themed multipack or something? Probably not but I can dream.

[Tim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Ttef

Mary 2 by lowanbing, on Flickr

Damn man! That seriously looks incredible! You did great. Constantine’s hand works perfectly

[Dr Kain]

OH MY GOD LOOK WHO I FOUND TODAY AT TARGET!!!!!!!



It appears that they got in two more cases since Tuesday as they had 2 Magnetos, 2 more Gladiators, a Storm, one Psylocke, one Multiple Man, and three Wolverines. All of the Gladiators had worse paint jobs than the one I have now though.

I didn't put them in the picture, but I did grab a Storm and another Wolverine and then immediately felt the joy of canceling my order with Dorkside.

This new Storm doesn't have the bobble head effect going on, nor is her left boot falling off the leg, BUT she came with two right feet. @_@ Fortunately, it was easy to heat up the feet on both the new one and defective one in order to switch them. I will returning the defect when I go there again this weekend.

As for Wolverine, he has a superior paint job and the claws don't seem to be as loose on this one. Now I just need to figure out the best way to remove the belts on him and the Juggernaut wave one so I can switch them. I'm worried that if I heat them up and pull them off through the legs it will stretch them, but I can't think of any other way to remove them.

Multiple Man seems cool, though the left eye's paint on the non angry face is messy, so it looks like he has a glass eye. If I see another one, I may grab one though because I'm liking him a lot better than I thought I would. It's also nice that Hasbro has finally learned to not make the coats in a hard plastic as it's nice and soft.

Psylocke isn't bad, but the paint job on her back is quite messy. In fact, they didn't paint the outfit to the skin evenly, so it looks part of her shirt has been ripped. If I come across another one, I'll pick it up to see if the paint job is better, but if not, it's not that big of a deal. I think. The paint on the face is perfect though and she does look kind of badass. I do wish she was the lighter blue though, but the purple hair rocks.

Now we come to Apocalypse. He's got this weird brown paint on the inside of his lower right knee joint for some reason. No idea how it even got there. Maybe from Multiple Man's coat? It looks like he is rusted. Nevertheless, oh my god this dude was well worth the wait. He is so friggin awesome. I love the metallic blue color with the black and the grey really pops due to it. It's so nice to finally own an Apocalypse figure that feels worthy of his reputation. Now I just need Hasbro to reissue Stryfe so I can have their infamous battle form X-Cutioner's Song. Or a nice three pack of the original Pestilence, War, and Famine.

I am so happy to finally have this entire wave in hand even though I still need to keep an eye out for some replacements. The main work is done though. WOOHOO!!!

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon X

Movies are not comic books.

If they are based on a comic, then they are the same thing.

Quote:

The dude has taken nukes and been fine, it's ridiculous. You cannot root for a man who can't be hurt aside from a green rock.

Superman is boring because he is a god with one weakness, and his alter ego and personality are boring as heck.

You clearly have never read the right Superman comics. Superman is a refugee who has to hide his identity from the general public for fear of his abilities being exploited. He puts on the bumbling reporter act as a means to fit in with people. Yes, we laugh at how no one actually recognizes the two as being the same person, but tell me honestly, would you really be looking at the details of every single person you were to meet to see if they looked like a super hero you saw on TV?

Also, if you think it is really that simple to instantly recognize someone like that, take a look at this:



Another thing is that while Superman may have god-like powers, he always has to hold himself back because everyone around him is like glass. If he loses control, he could accidentally kill someone. Are you seriously telling me that doesn't make him interesting? It's not about his invulnerabilities, it's about him being unable to use them under a personal restraint.

Quote:

I'll never forget how irritated I was when they decided at the end of Man of Steel to make him be a reporter at the Daily Planet, because not only is it unrealistic that no one recognizes him, but it's also so much more boring than the wanderer he was for most of the film.

Unrealistic? It's a god damn comic book movie! Plus, he works for the Daily Planet in the comics, so he has to in the movies.

[SymbiSpidey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon X

But you'll notice that the most successful heroes have only a couple of powers, something to focus on. Superman has far too many. The dude has taken nukes and been fine, it's ridiculous. You cannot root for a man who can't be hurt aside from a green rock.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Ever since 2001, people have been rooting for Wolverine, a guy who can't be hurt outside of neutralizing his powers entirely or a guy with a very specific power that counters the metal in his body. And even in the latter case, he can only, at best, be temporarily incapacitated. Deadpool is even worse: he regularly laughs off gruesome injuries as if they don't affect him at all. Let's not even get into MCU Hulk who, while not quite as powerful as his comic book counterpart, still can't actually die or be hurt in any meaningful way.

Quote:

Superman is boring because he is a god with one weakness, and his alter ego and personality are boring as heck.

But Superman doesn't only have one weakness. He can also be hurt by magic, and generally speaking anybody who matches or exceeds him in strength.

Regardless, I find that people who don't like Superman or claim that he's boring are also the same people that don't like Cyclops or didn't like Captain America until later MCU movies introduced darker sides to his character arc. And they all share one thing in common: they play the traditionally heroic "boy scout" role next to their "bad boy" teammates who typically don't play by the rules, come with tons of emotional baggage and angst, sleep with tons of women and usually end up hogging the spotlight because they're often included in stories by writers with a clear bias for them. You look at almost any team dynamic and it's always this character that ends up the most popular. Ultimately, characters like Superman and Cyclops are seen as characters that get in the way of the "bad boys" so fans end up resenting them for it.

But really, I find the idea of an alien that can basically be a god and rule over humanity, yet actively makes the choice to live among them as their equal fascinating. Because when you really think about, Superman doesn't even need a secret identity. But he assumes one because he wants to live among humanity and just experience what it's like to be a normal guy. He thinks that much of us that he's willing to embrace being a flawed human.

That's absolutely fascinating to me, but because he doesn't have the angst or cynical attitude of Batman, people ignore this and call him "boring".

Quote:

I'll never forget how irritated I was when they decided at the end of Man of Steel to make him be a reporter at the Daily Planet, because not only is it unrealistic that no one recognizes him, but it's also so much more boring than the wanderer he was for most of the film.

There's actually a psychology behind it. Nobody even really thinks Superman has a secret identity in the first place since he doesn't wear a mask, so nobody is looking for it. And Superman is such a larger than life celebrity in the DC Universe, that nobody would even begin to fathom why Superman would spend his off time pretending to be a meek and mild-mannered journalist. At best, they might go "Hey, that guy looks just like Superman" and then their next thought would be "But why does Superman look so.....weak? And soft-spoken? That's probably not him."

And if you don't like that explanation, I think it's been said somewhere that his glasses help to conceal his identity so there's that...

[lordbest]

There is actually science behind the glasses disguise thing

[Weapon X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey

This doesn't make any sense to me. Ever since 2001, people have been rooting for Wolverine, a guy who can't be hurt outside of neutralizing his powers entirely or a guy with a very specific power that counters the metal in his body. And even in the latter case, he can only, at best, be temporarily incapacitated. Deadpool is even worse: he regularly laughs off gruesome injuries as if they don't affect him at all. Let's not even get into MCU Hulk who, while not quite as powerful as his comic book counterpart, still can't actually die or be hurt in any meaningful way.



But Superman doesn't only have one weakness. He can also be hurt by magic, and generally speaking anybody who matches or exceeds him in strength.

Regardless, I find that people who don't like Superman or claim that he's boring are also the same people that don't like Cyclops or didn't like Captain America until later MCU movies introduced darker sides to his character arc. And they all share one thing in common: they play the traditionally heroic "boy scout" role next to their "bad boy" teammates who typically don't play by the rules, come with tons of emotional baggage and angst, sleep with tons of women and usually end up hogging the spotlight because they're often included in stories by writers with a clear bias for them. You look at almost any team dynamic and it's always this character that ends up the most popular. Ultimately, characters like Superman and Cyclops are seen as characters that get in the way of the "bad boys" so fans end up resenting them for it.

But really, I find the idea of an alien that can basically be a god and rule over humanity, yet actively makes the choice to live among them as their equal fascinating. Because when you really think about, Superman doesn't even need a secret identity. But he assumes one because he wants to live among humanity and just experience what it's like to be a normal guy. He thinks that much of us that he's willing to embrace being a flawed human.

That's absolutely fascinating to me, but because he doesn't have the angst or cynical attitude of Batman, people ignore this and call him "boring".



There's actually a psychology behind it. Nobody even really thinks Superman has a secret identity in the first place since he doesn't wear a mask, so nobody is looking for it. And Superman is such a larger than life celebrity in the DC Universe, that nobody would even begin to fathom why Superman would spend his off time pretending to be a meek and mild-mannered journalist. At best, they might go "Hey, that guy looks just like Superman" and then their next thought would be "But why does Superman look so.....weak? And soft-spoken? That's probably not him."

And if you don't like that explanation, I think it's been said somewhere that his glasses help to conceal his identity so there's that...

As we all saw in Logan, Wolverine can die. We've also seen him lose his adamantium claws in The Wolverine.

I don't know what exactly your thought process is in thinking that The Hulk can't be hurt and especially can't die, that's ridiculous. The Hulk got his ass handed to him by Thanos, and he only has one Infinity Stone and wasn't even using it. Stark beat him down with the Hulkbuster. And the other thing....Hulk is not Hulk all the time. He is Bruce Banner, a normal man. Superman is bulletproof and everything else 24/7.

Superman not being like Batman is not why people dislike him, but I'm done explaining it.

And that's not psychology, that's bullshit. In BvS Clark Kent and Superman both died on the same day. Clark was posted in the newspaper, and everyone knows Superman from news footage. And especially being that the internet exists now, it just makes it more absurd.

And no, him hunching over and wearing glasses isn't going to fool anyone, come off it.

Gods are generally not that interesting, that's why DC hasn't enjoyed much success outside of Batman in film, everyone's a god. Even filmmakers who work for Marvel have said that. Even Thor has been made accessible, by being made into an advanced race of alien who has technology we don't understand, and only gradually over 8 years have they powered him up a lot.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey

also the same people that don't like Cyclops

I don't like Cyclops because the man abandoned his wife and son for necrophilia.

Quote:

or didn't like Captain America until later MCU movies introduced darker sides to his character arc. A

Okay, I am totally guilty here. I could never get into Captain America as a kid, but that probably has more to do with horrible 90s comics. The movies are what really got me interested in Cap so much so that I picked up the Golden Age Omnibus and the two omnibuses that have been released so far that Stan Lee wrote, along with the Streets of Poison and Society of Serpents Epic Collections.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon X

that's why DC hasn't enjoyed much success outside of Batman in film, everyone's a god.

Um... NO!

1. Batman beat the crap out of Parademons single handidly in the Justice League movie. How is that not god-like abilities?

2. The DC movies haven't enjoyed much success outside of Batman because DC and WB do not respect their source material, their characters, and their history. They gave Jonah Hex friggin super powers when all they had to do was bootleg Tombstone or True Grit. People want well written movies that stay true to the comics. They don't want some off the rails grim dark character for the sake of being grim dark.

If they want grim dark characteres, then make movies on Etrigan, The Spectre, Swamp Thing, Dr Fate, Phantom Strange, the House of Mystery, the House of Secrets, etc. Hell, even The Question would work as a Neo-Noir thriller.

Quote:

And no, him hunching over and wearing glasses isn't going to fool anyone, come off it.

Did you not even read my post above? Or at least look at the picture?

[Weapon X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Did you not even read my post above? Or at least look at the picture?

I don't read any of your posts most of the time because you're immature as hell and come off like a 15 year old, you're always whining about something or being rude to somebody.

[SymbiSpidey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon X

As we all saw in Logan, Wolverine can die. We've also seen him lose his adamantium claws in The Wolverine.

And again, it takes the total neutralizing of Wolverine's powers to accomplish that. How is that any different from when somebody uses kryptonite or magic on Superman?

Quote:

I don't know what exactly your thought process is in thinking that The Hulk can't be hurt and especially can't die, that's ridiculous. The Hulk got his ass handed to him by Thanos, and he only has one Infinity Stone and wasn't even using it. Stark beat him down with the Hulkbuster.

The point is that Hulk is never in any real danger. He can be beaten (much like Superman) and he can be temporarily incapacitated (much like Superman), but we've never seen him even remotely close to dying and as a matter of fact, we've never even seen The Hulk take on a serious injury. But what makes The Hulk interesting is his character, which is the point I'm trying to get at with Superman

Quote:

And the other thing....Hulk is not Hulk all the time. He is Bruce Banner, a normal man. Superman is bulletproof and everything else 24/7.

But Bruce isn't any more of a normal man in his Bruce Banner persona than Superman is in his Clark Kent persona. Sure, Bruce Banner is not running around as a giant green monster all the time, but if he gets shot, he's just going to re-emerge as The Hulk with little to no injury, making him just as bulletproof as Superman.

Quote:

And that's not psychology, that's bullshit. In BvS Clark Kent and Superman both died on the same day. Clark was posted in the newspaper, and everyone knows Superman from news footage. And especially being that the internet exists now, it just makes it more absurd.

And I consider that to be a genuine flaw with the movie, I'd agree with you there.

Quote:

And no, him hunching over and wearing glasses isn't going to fool anyone, come off it.

Marilyn Monroe once walked around wearing just a wig to blend in with the public and people couldn't recognize her.

Quote:

Gods are generally not that interesting

Is that why we have literal centuries of stories written about them all throughout human history?

[Tomax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey

Personally, I don't think the DCEU characters are well-developed at all. Yes, there is something that can be said about the pressure Clark feels and about him having to make tough moral decisions. My problem stems from the fact that Clark/Superman is supposed to be Superman yet feels like the least human character in the movie. Outside of the heavy-handed God allegory, Superman is just...boring in the movies. He has no real discernible personality and spends large chunks of MoS and BvS just looking mopey and depressed, even when he's in the middle of saving lives. He has no real charm, charisma or chemistry with the rest of the cast. And that's the problem. Everything in those movies about trying to humanize Superman is undone by the fact that Superman is not written like a living, breathing person but rather the thesis to some allegory or philosophical debate.

totally disagree.

[Tomax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon X

But you'll notice that the most successful heroes have only a couple of powers, something to focus on. Superman has far too many. The dude has taken nukes and been fine, it's ridiculous. You cannot root for a man who can't be hurt aside from a green rock.

Superman is boring because he is a god with one weakness, and his alter ego and personality are boring as heck.

I'll never forget how irritated I was when they decided at the end of Man of Steel to make him be a reporter at the Daily Planet, because not only is it unrealistic that no one recognizes him, but it's also so much more boring than the wanderer he was for most of the film.

totally wrong.

[lordbest]

Hugh Jackman went to comic con as Wolverine and people didn't recognise him.

[SymbiSpidey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon X

that's why DC hasn't enjoyed much success outside of Batman in film

Well for starters, WB barely puts out non-Batman movies to begin with.

And the reason they haven't seen any success is simple: they aren't creating good movies. Their latest releases have been blatant attempts to copy Marvel's formula while still piggybacking off of the "dark, gritty" tone that worked for Nolan's Batman trilogy but doesn't work for anything else. They have no respect or real understanding of the source material, which is how we get things like Zack Snyder using a deconstructionist piece of fiction and a storyline in which the main character dies as the basis for which to build a multi-movie spanning cinematic saga off of.

[Weapon X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey

And again, it takes the total neutralizing of Wolverine's powers to accomplish that. How is that any different from when somebody uses kryptonite or magic on Superman?



The point is that Hulk is never in any real danger. He can be beaten (much like Superman) and he can be temporarily incapacitated (much like Superman), but we've never seen him even remotely close to dying and as a matter of fact, we've never even seen The Hulk take on a serious injury. But what makes The Hulk interesting is his character, which is the point I'm trying to get at with Superman



But Bruce isn't any more of a normal man in his Bruce Banner persona than Superman is in his Clark Kent persona. Sure, Bruce Banner is not running around as a giant green monster all the time, but if he gets shot, he's just going to re-emerge as The Hulk with little to no injury, making him just as bulletproof as Superman.



And I consider that to be a genuine flaw with the movie, I'd agree with you there.



Marilyn Monroe once walked around wearing just a wig to blend in with the public and people couldn't recognize her.



Is that why we have literal centuries of stories written about them all throughout human history?

Agree to disagree, we're not going to come around to each others' views.

Although I will say, that the argument about hundreds of stories being written about gods doesn't really work. Gods were always written about for religious purposes usually, to give people hope, not because they were somebody to root for. Protagonists were demi-gods at the most, because they still had that mortal part to them.

Greek plays in particular were usually about very vulnerable men in the case of epics, or usually about really ugly guys getting the girl in the story. They all had flaws. Gods were the deus ex machina element of the story.

[Weapon X]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordbest

Hugh Jackman went to comic con as Wolverine and people didn't recognise him.

Somebody did, which is my point. Somebody would know Clark Kent is Superman. More than one somebody.

I can't suspend my disbelief over a guy with no mask in a reasonably high-profile job not getting recognized.

Characters in the Defenders shows have handled these concepts much better.

[lordbest]

Yeah one person out of many thousands in a context conducive to jumping to the right conclusion. Making the jump from "Hey Clark looks like Superman" to "Clark is Superman" takes a lot more than that. A lot of people look like other people, and if you check out the link I posted above you will see scientists have actually studies this and found that glasses are an effective disguise.

[DarthKamen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomax

totally disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomax

totally wrong.

What deep, thought provoking points.

[SymbiSpidey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon X

Although I will say, that the argument about hundreds of stories being written about gods doesn't really work. Gods were always written about for religious purposes usually, to give people hope, not because they were somebody to root for.

Not always. In fact, the Greek Gods were often written in surprisingly human ways. Granted, most of the time it was of the "vengeful, spiteful and lustful" variety that prevented them from being protagonists, and pretty much made them the antagonists of many stories.

Quote:

Protagonists were demi-gods at the most, because they still had that mortal part to them.

You're only looking at surface level details there. As far as physical attributes, sure, some demigods were weaker than the regular Gods, but that's not what made them interesting characters. They were interesting characters because they had godlike power but still had close ties to humanity that made them more sympathetic and likable. You don't need to nerf them to accomplish that, you just need good storytelling. You need to put them in situations where their values and beliefs are put to the test. And that's so easy to do for a character like Superman where the challenge for him is to not exercise his godlike power to be judge, jury and executioner. But once again, writers don't understand Superman. They think making a good Superman story is to either make him a deadbeat dad, a ruthless dictator or make him more like Batman.

[Boy Blunder]

Oh my god, you toenails, get back on topic before posts get nuked.

Anyways, like lordbest, I too would love a Honey Badger. It would probably require a new body mold though, since she's a younger teen. Though that could lead to us getting a Molly Hayes, maybe?