[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Arbor

I've never really connected with the cosmic side of Marvel, Galactus excluded but mainly 'cause of that bitchin' armor haha. It's never appealed to me, I need the human element to connect with the stories, and with the Inhumans being a bunch of posturing self-aggrandizing dicks that Disney pushed WAAAAAYYY too hard to be the next X-Men, and the Eternals shaping up to be Game of Thrones(.... IN... SPAAAACEEEEE!), I just can't muster the energy to get hyped for the movies.

Thats why i love horror movies.......ya get to see the heroes of the films thinning the heard of the truly stupid. Jason Voorhees....one of the greatest movie heroes.

[TheBlueMarvel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I just wish marvel would stop race and gender changing major characters and use the opportunity to make new ones. Im still waiting for t’challa’s illegitimate white son or the scarlet warlock. I get companies are lazy, unimaginative entities that are just looking for the cheapest and laziest way to make a quick buck off these properties but it doesn’t do much for longevity.

To TRULY expand and incorporate inclusion, new characters MUST be created.....not butchering and bastardizing pre-established characters. That sorta crap is just cheap and lazy.

I'm not sure we can have a genuine dialogue on this if you cannot agree to a mutual acceptance of the fact that there is a need for greater diversity within Marvel's stable of heroes - there always has been. If we can't even agree upon that, then we are just going to be talking around each other and not to one another.

Additionally, understanding that books/publishing and movies/film, while similar, are considerably different in how they go about courting fans and delivering content is also an important distinction to agree upon if we are going to build in earnest. Simply put, films have tight deadlines that dictate their actions just as much as viewer demographics and potential ticket sales do.

When a film targets me as an African American, it's a strategy, not an altruism, nor is it 'politically motivated'. Such a silly notion, if true, would necessitate marginalized communities holding the lion's share of political power, which we don't. Their motivation to target me is strictly about avarice and cold hard cash. Not about appeasing me, people like me, or some sense of general progress.

Comics on the other hand have far more time to cultivate my readership, which makes it, in my opinion, far more egregious that they haven't organically created new characters throughout the years. Beyond the fact that Marvel doesn't afford new books/characters the time they need to flourish - my beloved Rom got 75 issues... lol as much as I love the character, he wouldn't have sniffed 25 in the current environment - I'm a firm believer in true empowerment and an advocate for the hiring of a more diverse staff of editors and writers that would have the cultural experience/cache and collateral to create a character like Storm - a good intention and great-for-what-she-is hero - without alienating a youthful 'me' and others with similar sentiments. That said, it's exactly this type of approach (hiring diverse voices) to which organizations like Marvel appear to be largely resistant. And trust me when I say this 'bruh, we're overqualified in MOST cases.

I'm a canonical fan of many things. Had you approached this conundrum from a premise in which you expressed problems with any changes to source material, then we would have a mutually held jump-off point from which to start. I love Michael Douglas as an actor, always have, but I hate that he's an 'aged' Hank Pym. It irritates me that I can't expect to see Hank Pym in action in the MCU, that uninitiated fans credit Tony Stark with creating Ultron, and I'll probably not see Wasp (Janet) as collateral damage and fallout. Not to mention, Douglas could have been used for a myriad of other weighty roles.

However, your principle stance, as far as I have seen, seems to revolve uniquely around race, while you are seemingly good with the other many changes in the MCU. Because of that fact, I've considered my support for source material - warts and all (something I've been consistent on) - wholly different from what you've been saying.

Hey, we've been friendly for years, my dude. You want to really rap about this? Let's spare the thread, hit me up and we can build...

EDIT: If that is truly Kro, yeeesh, I'll be holding my nose more than anticipated....but still plan to perform my duty and nab the wave to pave the way for the canon Eternals....Oh, Hasbro, I know you are beholden to Marvel/Disney's whims, but WHAY couldn't you have convinced them to go the canon route first??? WHAAY I ask you! WHAAAAY!?!?

[EvilMonkeyPope]

Kro looks a symbiote.

[redfox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilMonkeyPope

Kro looks a symbiote.

Starting to wonder if that's intentional.

Here's a back of the packaging shot:

[Dr Kain]

Does he not look anything like that in the comics?

[Ultra Seven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Does he not look anything like that in the comics?

He looks exactly nothing like it.

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfox

Starting to wonder if that's intentional.

Here's a back of the packaging shot:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Seven

He looks exactly nothing like it.

Clearly. He kinda looks like tyrant mr x end form and those plant creatures combined with the bandersnatch from code veronica x.

[Hulkwummy]

Please, don't let this be the Marvel Monday reveal.

[Nimrod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

I just wish marvel would stop race and gender changing major characters and use the opportunity to make new ones. Im still waiting for t’challa’s illegitimate white son or the scarlet warlock. I get companies are lazy, unimaginative entities that are just looking for the cheapest and laziest way to make a quick buck off these properties but it doesn’t do much for longevity.

To TRULY expand and incorporate inclusion, new characters MUST be created.....not butchering and bastardizing pre-established characters. That sorta crap is just cheap and lazy.

Why should Marvel stop? Now should they make a Blond ,blue eyed African guy the new Black Panther, everyone will go ballistic.

[Archangel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

More akin to or . Don’t have to necessarily have to put joke in the phrase or meme. Most folks here who know me know i am very rarely serious. As for tit for tat hey if it aint directed at ya why worry about it?

Anywho hopin to grab a starboost but no targets have the bloody thing.....unless i wanna drive outta state.

Starboost IM is still available to ship on Targets site...

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel

Starboost IM is still available to ship on Targets site...

I saw but starboost is one i wanna look at in person. Have heard it can have some pretty wonky paint apps.

[usernamedustin]

Popfindr has been showing the Target by me has 4 in stock for the last week. I am pretty sure they haven't put them out yet, so I am just going to go by in the morning and try to pick one up. I am hoping it should just be straightforward and easy. Lots of Targets within 75 miles of me have been showing them in stock for awhile and it seems like 80% of them are sticking to the street date.

[Veronica Mars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamedustin

Popfindr has been showing the Target by me has 4 in stock for the last week. I am pretty sure they haven't put them out yet, so I am just going to go by in the morning and try to pick one up. I am hoping it should just be straightforward and easy. Lots of Targets within 75 miles of me have been showing them in stock for awhile and it seems like 80% of them are sticking to the street date.

4 seems to be the magic number, all the Targets around here are showing 4 too, except the ones who broke the street date

[ETERNIA FOREVER]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veronica Mars

4 seems to be the magic number, all the Targets around here are showing 4 too, except the ones who broke the street date

Just went Live gooooooooooo

[ETERNIA FOREVER]

Quote:

Originally Posted by usernamedustin

Popfindr has been showing the Target by me has 4 in stock for the last week. I am pretty sure they haven't put them out yet, so I am just going to go by in the morning and try to pick one up. I am hoping it should just be straightforward and easy. Lots of Targets within 75 miles of me have been showing them in stock for awhile and it seems like 80% of them are sticking to the street date.

Live now if you want to buy online

[ETERNIA FOREVER]

Gone now online, hope those that wanted this were able to get it and my previous messages were of help..

[ETERNIA FOREVER]

They are back must be going in and out of stock now, got to love good old target.

[Benn Roe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

And exactly how am i? Because i prefer characters to portrayed accurately or if diversity or inclusion is wanted that established characters not be butchered and new characters be created instead? That makes me a woman hater? You truly have no idea what you are talking about and should just go about your day instead of harassing people.

Well, part of the problem is that you consider a person of colour portraying a white comic character, or a woman portraying a male one, to be a "butchering" of that character. Can you stop and think about that opinion for a second? Butchering? Is whiteness an essential part of Valkyrie's character, or Heimdall's, or MJ's? Is maleness an essential quality for Ghost? Blue Marvel's point is a good one. What is it about these changes that really bothers you? Are you similarly bothered by changes of non-essential qualities in costumes? Story details? Surely you see that many costumes undergo changes to help them better translate to screen, and that stories often deviate from source material to better reflect the times, or better integrate with the new context of the over-arching storyline. Why is it then such a stretch to accept that these race and gender swaps also serve an important need?

Are you really advocating for the MCU to introduce brand new characters, not pulled from the comics, as the better vehicle for serving diversity? Somehow I don't think that would go over any better with grognard oldhead comic fans. It goes without saying that Marvel should be focused on introducing an array of diverse new characters in the comics, but you do understand that most of Marvel's popular, iconic characters built up that popularity over 40+ years, and new characters are rarely going to be immediately marketable as A-listers, so even that is a pretty underwhelming solution? Not to mention, many of Marvel's newer non-straight white cis-male characters who have gained traction, like Miss Marvel and Miss America Chavez, are often widely decried as illegitimate by "fans" espousing the same thinly-veiled subconscious racism and misogyny as you, because they're not straight white cis-men, so obviously they only exist to serve some insidious agenda that dares to threaten the refuges of white men by forcing them to read stories about black and brown people.

Diversity is absolutely crucial, and there is no obvious, uncontroversial path to get there, but only because white men are feeling increasingly threatened for reasons we often don't understand ourselves. You have work to do, dude. The feelings you're having don't come from any place other than bigotry, whether you're ready to process that or not.

[Veronica Mars]

Also when most of the classic A-List characters were created diversity wasn't a factor nor would it have been welcomed. I don't see anything wrong with fixing that now. Sure make new characters and expand the diversity, but most of the time the people falling back on the make new characters don't change the existing ones, are the same people who tear down the new characters and won't let them get a foothold to gain prominence, so really they just don't want the diversity and equal representation

[Shinzero02]

Huh. Had Starboost IM in my cart to check out today and when I went to purchase it, it sold out. 10 minutes later the Storm Set becomes available and I get that order in.

Oddly enough today was my first day leaving the house since March to specifically get that set only to strike out. DIdn't think it'd just pop up online at 1AM.

[Benn Roe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veronica Mars

Also when most of the classic A-List characters were created diversity wasn't a factor nor would it have been welcomed. I don't see anything wrong with fixing that now. Sure make new characters and expand the diversity, but most of the time the people falling back on the make new characters don't change the existing ones, are the same people who tear down the new characters and won't let them get a foothold to gain prominence, so really they just don't want the diversity and equal representation

Exactly, and much more succinctly put.

[SymbiSpidey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veronica Mars

Also when most of the classic A-List characters were created diversity wasn't a factor nor would it have been welcomed. I don't see anything wrong with fixing that now. Sure make new characters and expand the diversity, but most of the time the people falling back on the make new characters don't change the existing ones, are the same people who tear down the new characters and won't let them get a foothold to gain prominence, so really they just don't want the diversity and equal representation

I can't tell you the number of people I've seen complain about a character's race changing, but then when you introduce a new character, it's accused of being part of some sort of agenda.

Blue Marvel also may a very good point earlier I feel. These arguments for comic-accuracy only ever seem to apply to race and gender. The MCU has changed entire characters' backstories and even personalities (Thor being a primary example) over and over again, but you only ever see people make a big fuss over changing their race or gender and it really makes you wonder.

[Robb]

For those who need them the Rogue/Pyro set is in stock at Best Buy
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hasbro-...?skuId=6424667

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benn Roe

Well, part of the problem is that you consider a person of colour portraying a white comic character, or a woman portraying a male one, to be a "butchering" of that character. Can you stop and think about that opinion for a second? Butchering? Is whiteness an essential part of Valkyrie's character, or Heimdall's, or MJ's? Is maleness an essential quality for Ghost? Blue Marvel's point is a good one. What is it about these changes that really bothers you? Are you similarly bothered by changes of non-essential qualities in costumes? Story details? Surely you see that many costumes undergo changes to help them better translate to screen, and that stories often deviate from source material to better reflect the times, or better integrate with the new context of the over-arching storyline. Why is it then such a stretch to accept that these race and gender swaps also serve an important need?

Are you really advocating for the MCU to introduce brand new characters, not pulled from the comics, as the better vehicle for serving diversity? Somehow I don't think that would go over any better with grognard oldhead comic fans. It goes without saying that Marvel should be focused on introducing an array of diverse new characters in the comics, but you do understand that most of Marvel's popular, iconic characters built up that popularity over 40+ years, and new characters are rarely going to be immediately marketable as A-listers, so even that is a pretty underwhelming solution? Not to mention, many of Marvel's newer non-straight white cis-male characters who have gained traction, like Miss Marvel and Miss America Chavez, are often widely decried as illegitimate by "fans" espousing the same thinly-veiled subconscious racism and misogyny as you, because they're not straight white cis-men, so obviously they only exist to serve some insidious agenda that dares to threaten the refuges of white men by forcing them to read stories about black and brown people.

Diversity is absolutely crucial, and there is no obvious, uncontroversial path to get there, but only because white men are feeling increasingly threatened for reasons we often don't understand ourselves. You have work to do, dude. The feelings you're having don't come from any place other than bigotry, whether you're ready to process that or not.

The whole reason im constantly bothered by as you say is because if a change occurs in the movies then marvel tends to do the same in the comics. And yes i personally feel that the way a character is sone in the comics they should be portrayed that way in the comics. As i have said time and again its just a means for the untalented to pass of characters they changed in a sad attempt to be diverse etc. The characters as they are have earned their fandom and to alter them just to fit a political/social agenda does a disservice to the character, the fandom and the creator(s).

Yes i feel that making a new character for the movies would honestly be a better move then slapping a familiar name and costume on someone. Look at michelle from sonys spider movies. She is clearly NOT mary jane watson but she has been well received so that is evidence that a new, original character created just for a movie can work.

Yes fans or others decry when a new character is introduced but your examples of kahn and chavez have earned their fandom along with others who were introduced with them. And oh i recall how many people here when batshit when the recent new warriors comic was introduced and how many people here hated it because it was the OLD characters of the team but an entire NEW team of heroes. Sure they weren’t the warriors I or others grew up with but a new team for the current generation of potential young readers.

And lastly dont presume to know whats in my head. I do not hate any one being or beings because of their race gender etc. People love to throw words like misogyny, bigotry etc. shame people into falling in line with their views. You, and others, perceive what you think is something along those lines and use it to jump on a person. Those feelings you your perceive that only come from bigotry do not. They come from a desire to see true expansion and inclusion by not taking away from what it is but by adding new to the roster to truly add inclusion and iverse characters. Change just for the sake ( perceived sake ) change is wrong.

And fyi my favorite reads of iron man were when jim rhodes was iron man. That is a great example of how change, done organically, can and does work.

[Robb]

I just did a pop finder check and target store check and they have all the new 2 packs and the x-men anniversary singles in counts of at least four. Except Storm 2 pack. I have been watching pop finder all week for this one and it has not even showed up. Why? I only have 1 Target for my city/town so unless I travel 30 miles or more I have to wait or order. Those who have multiple stores have an advantage but I know you have more collectors in your area than I do.