[ultraman zoffy]

So... as far as I can tell, ALL major retailers have axed the Breaking Bad lines (figures and bobbleheads, etc) from their websites. If they try pulling this sh*t with other lines (are GoT figures in TRU also?), life for collectors could get a lot uglier quickly.

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

You may be right. However, there definitely seems to be a market on eBay (which sustains high prices based on demand) with popular items selling routinely. The interest that drives the very kick-starters you brought up is apparently out there, highlighting that there are adults willing to spend considerable money to buy toys (some willing to secure entire lines in one purchase). Not to mention the toy-centric websites like this one (and numerous others) that support a multitude (collectively, who knows what the numbers are or could be) of adult supporters. What you perceive as a lack of substantive proof that the market exists may simply represent an inability to package/deliver the product to the "community" at the right vectors/venues. It's also possible that the retail model of mass production might not be the best method of production. A little more "outside of the box" thinking might be in order....

Possibly, but if you look at what you've just said, the market isn't untapped. It's out there spending its' money, just not always in traditional retail modes.

The easiest way I can put it is this: Most collectors only have so much money to spend on toys, and most of them spend that money year after year, whether on mainstream retail, kickstarters, ordering stuff online, auction sites/secondary market, subscription services, or otherwise.... (Usually a combination of all of the above).

Introduce enough new cool stuff...and there simply isn't the money out there to sustain it. For example, I dropped a lot of cash on kickstarters this year...a grand total of two of them. If next year there are three or four cool action figure kickstarters, I'm either going to have to get considerably less of each, or decide which ones I'm going to support and which ones I won't. In the grand scheme of things, that's just moving money around, not actually bringing more/new money into the market. If you're hitting an "untapped" market you'd have to be bringing more/new money into the hobby as a whole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultraman zoffy

So... as far as I can tell, ALL major retailers have axed the Breaking Bad lines (figures and bobbleheads, etc) from their websites. If they try pulling this sh*t with other lines (are GoT figures in TRU also?), life for collectors could get a lot uglier quickly.

Pretty sure GoT is still in TRU. As are Friday the 13th/Nightmare on Elm Street/Aliens/Walking Dead, etc... But it's not like we Americans dont' have a long history of basically endorsing violence and violent media. (I do not blame violent media for anything, just noting that it's highly accepted in American society).

[ultraman zoffy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

Pretty sure GoT is still in TRU. As are Friday the 13th/Nightmare on Elm Street/Aliens/Walking Dead, etc... But it's not like we Americans dont' have a long history of basically endorsing violence and violent media. (I do not blame violent media for anything, just noting that it's highly accepted in American society).

I think that's what makes it all the more funny when things like this happen. It's like "don't you know where you live lady? This is Murica!"

[En Sabah Nerd]

We do tolerate violence more than drugs which is a tad strange.

[kylactus]

what I've always found strange is the fact that we accept violence, drug use, and quite a bit of swearing on prime time television, but if you show one nipple (I'm thinking of the Janet Jackson super bowl thing) everyone's up in arms like you it's the end of the world.

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylactus

what I've always found strange is the fact that we accept violence, drug use, and quite a bit of swearing on prime time television, but if you show one nipple (I'm thinking of the Janet Jackson super bowl thing) everyone's up in arms like you it's the end of the world.

We don't see a ton of profanity, but a decent amount, pretty sure they still can't say fuck without a censorship bleep or white-out (when they just cut the audio, I have no idea what it's actually called). Though yes, show one woman's nipple and all hell breaks loose. Then HBO gets to ignore all of this and show whatever sometimes for the sake of whatever.

[TheBlueMarvel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

Possibly, but if you look at what you've just said, the market isn't untapped. It's out there spending its' money, just not always in traditional retail modes.

The easiest way I can put it is this: Most collectors only have so much money to spend on toys, and most of them spend that money year after year, whether on mainstream retail, kickstarters, ordering stuff online, auction sites/secondary market, subscription services, or otherwise.... (Usually a combination of all of the above).

Introduce enough new cool stuff...and there simply isn't the money out there to sustain it. For example, I dropped a lot of cash on kickstarters this year...a grand total of two of them. If next year there are three or four cool action figure kickstarters, I'm either going to have to get considerably less of each, or decide which ones I'm going to support and which ones I won't. In the grand scheme of things, that's just moving money around, not actually bringing more/new money into the market. If you're hitting an "untapped" market you'd have to be bringing more/new money into the hobby as a whole.

You've shifted the conversation slightly. I was not suggesting that the market was "untapped" for producers of toys, it was the retailers to whom I was referring.

The market is untapped for a retailer by virtue of the fact that adults are buying these toys in venues other than "brick-and-mortar" (store fronts). From a retail-marketing perspective: if it's selling "anywhere", then it can sell "here". The non-traditional modes of purchase you alluded to represent potential dollars for any traditional retail franchise. The major challenge for retailers becomes one of how to direct traffic through their doors.

There are a number of methods retailers can (and do ) employ to achieve this feat. Collectors are already well familiar with store exclusives, so that's one tried-and-true technique. Retailers could win back some online shoppers with clever pricing incentives to off-set what online shoppers may pay in shipping/handling fees (not to mention most items cost the same or more on sites like eBay - online isn't cheaper in most situations as it pertains to collectable figures) and the convenience of not having to wait for delivery is an obvious boon to business. Thinking out of the box; retailers might approach some of these successful Kickstarter campaigns and negotiate second runs with limited numbers (a spin on the exclusive concept). Update/Edit (added bits)Although it wasn't a Kickstarter, I'd like to see a re-run of Four Horsemen Studio's initial Gothitropolis line. The Gothitropolis Ravens line, which was a Kickstarter, wasn't really my cup of tea. I wasn't aware of Gothitropolis Scarabus until it was too late, missing out on getting a number of figures that I'd like to own from that line (Anubos, Horos, Thothos, and Nergall). In this scenario, I'd actually represent new business for both the producer and any retailer that could work out a deal of this nature.Update/Edit(end) There are ways all of this could work. It just takes a little thought and a little understanding of how the field has changed.....

All that said, I'm an pretty unlikely advocate for retail since I buy almost everything online.

[kylactus]

the biggest problem with buying toys online as a MOC collector is the fact that you can't really check out things like paint apps and condition (I once got a MU Mystique from HTS minus a hand. Not to mention that some companies don't take much care when packing, leading to bent and creased cards and smashed bubbles. Plus the fact that the hunt was always fun (back when stores still stocked what I collect) and it often lead to finding new products to collect that I would have never looked for under normal circumstances. I think there is a vast world between serious toy collectors like most of us, and children who chew there toys up and play with them (as intended). This group, the adult semi-collector, I guess. (like the guy that decorates his man room with a couple spider man figs, or has a few characters from his favorite videogame on his TV stand, or the woman that has assorted Wonder Woman figs in her cubical.) these folks won't go out of there way to hunt a particular figure, and probably don't care to complete a line, but they still, as a group probably represent a good portion of the overall toy market. and by taking figures out of brick and mortar stores I think the toy companies loose those sales all together. (not to mention kids themselves usually think very visually and want to hold the item there getting in there hands.

[Jmacq1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

You've shifted the conversation slightly. I was not suggesting that the market was "untapped" for producers of toys, it was the retailers to whom I was referring.

The market is untapped for a retailer by virtue of the fact that adults are buying these toys in venues other than "brick-and-mortar" (store fronts). From a retail-marketing perspective: if it's selling "anywhere", then it can sell "here". The non-traditional modes of purchase you alluded to represent potential dollars for any traditional retail franchise. The major challenge for retailers becomes one of how to direct traffic through their doors.

There are a number of methods retailers can (and do ) employ to achieve this feat. Collectors are already well familiar with store exclusives, so that's one tried-and-true technique. Retailers could win back some online shoppers with clever pricing incentives to off-set what online shoppers may pay in shipping/handling fees (not to mention most items cost the same or more on sites like eBay - online isn't cheaper in most situations as it pertains to collectable figures) and the convenience of not having to wait for delivery is an obvious boon to business. Thinking out of the box; retailers might approach some of these successful Kickstarter campaigns and negotiate second runs with limited numbers (a spin on the exclusive concept). Update/Edit (added bits)Although it wasn't a Kickstarter, I'd like to see a re-run of Four Horsemen Studio's initial Gothitropolis line. The Gothitropolis Ravens line, which was a Kickstarter, wasn't really my cup of tea. I wasn't aware of Gothitropolis Scarabus until it was too late, missing out on getting a number of figures that I'd like to own from that line (Anubos, Horos, Thothos, and Nergall). In this scenario, I'd actually represent new business for both the producer and any retailer that could work out a deal of this nature.Update/Edit(end) There are ways all of this could work. It just takes a little thought and a little understanding of how the field has changed.....

All that said, I'm an pretty unlikely advocate for retail since I buy almost everything online.

Here's the thing though: Retail, and particularly mass retail is a much different beast. There has to be a certain minimum of overall sales expected before retailers like Wal-Mart or Target are going to buy in, and many of the smaller/indie/collector-oriented companies simply don't have the capital to shift to that level of mass production.

There used to be considerably more outlets for adult-oriented collectibles, just as they used to have a higher presence in mass retail markets. But there are reasons that many of those outlets have disappeared and the toy shelves are starting to be laden with blatantly kid-oriented product while collector-friendly material gets shunted off to the corner.

I get what you're trying to say, Hell, I've even fantasized about hitting one of those big lotteries and opening up a "geek paradise" type megastore that sold all this kinda stuff at decent prices without even having to worry about whether or not the business was making or losing money. But I tend to believe it would, in fact, lose money.

A "one stop collector shop" might seem like a good idea on the surface, but unless you managed nationwide coverage right out of the gate, it's not going to do much to discourage scalpers and it's not likely to "grow the market."

If you're not talking about nationwide coverage, then basically you're opening a slightly specialized version of the local comic shop...and those certainly don't seem to have mitigated the scalper problem.

[TheBlueMarvel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmacq1

Here's the thing though: Retail, and particularly mass retail is a much different beast. There has to be a certain minimum of overall sales expected before retailers like Wal-Mart or Target are going to buy in, and many of the smaller/indie/collector-oriented companies simply don't have the capital to shift to that level of mass production.

There used to be considerably more outlets for adult-oriented collectibles, just as they used to have a higher presence in mass retail markets. But there are reasons that many of those outlets have disappeared and the toy shelves are starting to be laden with blatantly kid-oriented product while collector-friendly material gets shunted off to the corner.

I get what you're trying to say, Hell, I've even fantasized about hitting one of those big lotteries and opening up a "geek paradise" type megastore that sold all this kinda stuff at decent prices without even having to worry about whether or not the business was making or losing money. But I tend to believe it would, in fact, lose money.

A "one stop collector shop" might seem like a good idea on the surface, but unless you managed nationwide coverage right out of the gate, it's not going to do much to discourage scalpers and it's not likely to "grow the market."

If you're not talking about nationwide coverage, then basically you're opening a slightly specialized version of the local comic shop...and those certainly don't seem to have mitigated the scalper problem.

I appreciate what you bring up about retail vs "mass" retail. The movement in the brick-and-mortar space has been toward the "big box stores" like Costco, Walmart, Target, and others. However, this concept of "bigger is better" may not endure, or a the very least, may end up being inappropriate for certain items. Without going too far off subject, some consumers are finding that the Costco(s) of the world provide too much of the "product" for which they are looking. I've no children, but enjoy Honey Nut Cheerios for breakfast (it's my thing...what can I say?). What use have I for a "mega-family size" box of Cheerios??? My gf and I could eat this stuff 3 times a day for a week and still have 2-3wks of cereal left over. My point is that the mass trend of "overproduction" does not serve everyone's needs and can be pretty wasteful.

Extrapolate this thinking over to toys. I'm not advocating a "superstore" of action figure toys, instead, I say scale down and be smarter and more strategic about marketing. Interests could be combined. We all are aware (adult consumers and marketers) that there is a great deal of overlay between toy figures, hobby-craft, comics, sci-fi/horror/fantasy themed media, table top gaming, card gaming, and video-gaming for the adult aficionado/"American Otaku/Nerd". Put all of those interests together, and like Kev Costner in Field of Dreams, "those geeks will come baby!" Yes, this opinion is commonly regarded as a pipe-dream. However, most wildly successful endeavors started in much the same way. Why? Because someone bucked the trend (in this case overproduction to fill the shelves of huge outlets) and said, "I can do that better." Put all these geeky items in one medium sized setting and you have the makings of a new shopping experience and the potential for "nerd-interest" cross pollination/consumption. Not to mention, a cultural phenomenon since being a nerd has become vogue now.

I disagree that the "market" needs to "grow" at this stage. It's already grown given the legitimacy the mainstream affords comics/video games/and action figures (the fact that "adult collector" is even a "thing" speaks volumes) with marketers aiming for our demographic like never before. What this market needs (IMO) is to be serviced/captured/sold to more intelligently. We represent a great deal of buying power...if we didn't, none of these toys would even be made and websites like this one wouldn't exist. I hear where you are coming from, but status quo will always tell you it can't be done.

[kylactus]

'Breaking Bad's' Aaron Paul slams Toys R Us over recall | Fox News

the second volley....

[donmeca2020]

i heard about this and signed the petition awhile back... sucks to hear some BS stay at home mom feels these are bad, even though they are toys and toys aimed at adult collectors.

My next thing im gonna ask quite a few of you is are toys like breaking bad, marvel select, DC collectibles only available at CERTAIN toys r us stores? the one local to me, i have never once seen any type of toy that would make me want to grab a few up and take them to the register.

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donmeca2020

i heard about this and signed the petition awhile back... sucks to hear some BS stay at home mom feels these are bad, even though they are toys and toys aimed at adult collectors.

My next thing im gonna ask quite a few of you is are toys like breaking bad, marvel select, DC collectibles only available at CERTAIN toys r us stores? the one local to me, i have never once seen any type of toy that would make me want to grab a few up and take them to the register.

I've never seen Marvel Select or DCC at a TRU, I've seen some of Diamond Select's TRU exclusives but never a regular figure. When my TRU had Breaking Bad stuff they kept it next to the NECA and other adult collector figures.

[CMIII]

Quote:

Originally Posted by En Sabah Nerd

I've never seen Marvel Select or DCC at a TRU, I've seen some of Diamond Select's TRU exclusives but never a regular figure. When my TRU had Breaking Bad stuff they kept it next to the NECA and other adult collector figures.

if you saw DCC or Marvel Select at TRU you would be paying 5$ more for them. Heck they way over charged for DCUC figures.. K-Mart 17.99 vs TRU 22.99