Originally Posted by Tim (Post 769201)

I’m not touching this one with a 10 foot pole(nitelife joke coming hahaha!)...People on the Internet will complain about anything and everything.

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey (Post 769073)

See, I can't agree with this at all. Superman's powerset really isn't that rare in comic books. There's specific things he can do, like ice breath and heat vision that are kinda unique to him, but superheroes that can fly and have super strength are a dime a dozen in comic books.

The real issue, and what many people claim makes Superman "boring" is his personality. He's literally too good. He doesn't have the crippling character flaws that characters like Batman or Spider-Man have and that works against the character, because how do you write a character that is already perfect and give them any meaningful character development or arc that would make them interesting while still having him be Superman?

I will say that the most interesting Superman stories I've read are the ones where you see the effect he has on others. Where he kinda comes down to humanity's level to connect with them on a personal level.

One of my favorite scans of Superman, and the one that made me really love him as a character is where there's a woman who's about to jump off of a building and Superman goes up simply to talk with her. The woman is pretty much sure that she isn't important, yet he sits with her the entire night just to give her somebody to vent to. In this moment, Superman doesn't look like a god or a superhero, he really does look like a long lost friend who's trying to help somebody in their time of need. Somebody who's so dedicated to helping others reach their full potential, and that perfectly embodies what Superman is to me. It's genuinely one of the most heartwarming things in comic books that I've ever read.

EDIT: Here it is: https://imgur.com/gallery/Ijdxh

Originally Posted by Tim (Post 769205)

Wasn’t directed towards anyone particular lordbest. I’m just not looking for a argument over what a woman wears. Especially considering this is a “marvel legends appreciation thread” not “what a celeb wears or doesn’t wear thread” lol the internet is always looking for a argument

Originally Posted by Bo Ttef (Post 769186)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1833/...10146c45_k.jpgMary 2 by lowanbing, on Flickr

Originally Posted by Weapon X (Post 769204)

Movies are not comic books.

Originally Posted by Weapon X (Post 769204)

But you'll notice that the most successful heroes have only a couple of powers, something to focus on. Superman has far too many. The dude has taken nukes and been fine, it's ridiculous. You cannot root for a man who can't be hurt aside from a green rock.

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey (Post 769220)

This doesn't make any sense to me. Ever since 2001, people have been rooting for Wolverine, a guy who can't be hurt outside of neutralizing his powers entirely or a guy with a very specific power that counters the metal in his body. And even in the latter case, he can only, at best, be temporarily incapacitated. Deadpool is even worse: he regularly laughs off gruesome injuries as if they don't affect him at all. Let's not even get into MCU Hulk who, while not quite as powerful as his comic book counterpart, still can't actually die or be hurt in any meaningful way.



But Superman doesn't only have one weakness. He can also be hurt by magic, and generally speaking anybody who matches or exceeds him in strength.

Regardless, I find that people who don't like Superman or claim that he's boring are also the same people that don't like Cyclops or didn't like Captain America until later MCU movies introduced darker sides to his character arc. And they all share one thing in common: they play the traditionally heroic "boy scout" role next to their "bad boy" teammates who typically don't play by the rules, come with tons of emotional baggage and angst, sleep with tons of women and usually end up hogging the spotlight because they're often included in stories by writers with a clear bias for them. You look at almost any team dynamic and it's always this character that ends up the most popular. Ultimately, characters like Superman and Cyclops are seen as characters that get in the way of the "bad boys" so fans end up resenting them for it.

But really, I find the idea of an alien that can basically be a god and rule over humanity, yet actively makes the choice to live among them as their equal fascinating. Because when you really think about, Superman doesn't even need a secret identity. But he assumes one because he wants to live among humanity and just experience what it's like to be a normal guy. He thinks that much of us that he's willing to embrace being a flawed human.

That's absolutely fascinating to me, but because he doesn't have the angst or cynical attitude of Batman, people ignore this and call him "boring".



There's actually a psychology behind it. Nobody even really thinks Superman has a secret identity in the first place since he doesn't wear a mask, so nobody is looking for it. And Superman is such a larger than life celebrity in the DC Universe, that nobody would even begin to fathom why Superman would spend his off time pretending to be a meek and mild-mannered journalist. At best, they might go "Hey, that guy looks just like Superman" and then their next thought would be "But why does Superman look so.....weak? And soft-spoken? That's probably not him."

And if you don't like that explanation, I think it's been said somewhere that his glasses help to conceal his identity so there's that...

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey (Post 769220)

also the same people that don't like Cyclops

Originally Posted by Weapon X (Post 769222)

that's why DC hasn't enjoyed much success outside of Batman in film, everyone's a god.

Originally Posted by Dr Kain (Post 769226)

Did you not even read my post above? Or at least look at the picture?

Originally Posted by Weapon X (Post 769222)

As we all saw in Logan, Wolverine can die. We've also seen him lose his adamantium claws in The Wolverine.

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey (Post 768955)

Personally, I don't think the DCEU characters are well-developed at all. Yes, there is something that can be said about the pressure Clark feels and about him having to make tough moral decisions. My problem stems from the fact that Clark/Superman is supposed to be Superman yet feels like the least human character in the movie. Outside of the heavy-handed God allegory, Superman is just...boring in the movies. He has no real discernible personality and spends large chunks of MoS and BvS just looking mopey and depressed, even when he's in the middle of saving lives. He has no real charm, charisma or chemistry with the rest of the cast. And that's the problem. Everything in those movies about trying to humanize Superman is undone by the fact that Superman is not written like a living, breathing person but rather the thesis to some allegory or philosophical debate.

Originally Posted by Weapon X (Post 769204)

But you'll notice that the most successful heroes have only a couple of powers, something to focus on. Superman has far too many. The dude has taken nukes and been fine, it's ridiculous. You cannot root for a man who can't be hurt aside from a green rock.

Superman is boring because he is a god with one weakness, and his alter ego and personality are boring as heck.

I'll never forget how irritated I was when they decided at the end of Man of Steel to make him be a reporter at the Daily Planet, because not only is it unrealistic that no one recognizes him, but it's also so much more boring than the wanderer he was for most of the film.

Originally Posted by Weapon X (Post 769222)

that's why DC hasn't enjoyed much success outside of Batman in film

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey (Post 769229)

And again, it takes the total neutralizing of Wolverine's powers to accomplish that. How is that any different from when somebody uses kryptonite or magic on Superman?



The point is that Hulk is never in any real danger. He can be beaten (much like Superman) and he can be temporarily incapacitated (much like Superman), but we've never seen him even remotely close to dying and as a matter of fact, we've never even seen The Hulk take on a serious injury. But what makes The Hulk interesting is his character, which is the point I'm trying to get at with Superman



But Bruce isn't any more of a normal man in his Bruce Banner persona than Superman is in his Clark Kent persona. Sure, Bruce Banner is not running around as a giant green monster all the time, but if he gets shot, he's just going to re-emerge as The Hulk with little to no injury, making him just as bulletproof as Superman.



And I consider that to be a genuine flaw with the movie, I'd agree with you there.



Marilyn Monroe once walked around wearing just a wig to blend in with the public and people couldn't recognize her.



Is that why we have literal centuries of stories written about them all throughout human history?

Originally Posted by lordbest (Post 769232)

Hugh Jackman went to comic con as Wolverine and people didn't recognise him.

Originally Posted by Tomax (Post 769230)

totally disagree.

Originally Posted by Tomax (Post 769231)

totally wrong.

Originally Posted by Weapon X (Post 769234)

Although I will say, that the argument about hundreds of stories being written about gods doesn't really work. Gods were always written about for religious purposes usually, to give people hope, not because they were somebody to root for.