it always baffles me why writers dont get together and yah know, discuss this problem. I dont understand why these companies are run by children.

No joke!

Fixed. I didn't want to offend the children who might visit these threads.

I think it's a problem of scale as much as anything. Each editor handles 4ish titles, and it's only natural they don't know always know off the top of their head that johnny c-lister already met suzy q in some mini-series 5 year ago. I'm amazed they're able to keep up with as much as they do, they must have one hell of a central database to do those character profiles they release.

And I think were overreacting abit, it sounds like this is nothing more than an excuse to start some new titles, and design some new costumes. Anyone remember the heroic age?

I fucking hate number 1's. I get tired of this restarting and that restarting because of it to long/need jump on point/confuses readers/just wanted to piss off Kaewin or whatever. It is about cash because number 1 books sell because everyone feels good about it. This will be Avengers Vol 5. 5!, They just rebooted a couple years a go and have not hit 30 books. It is just annoying, what it shows is books are not stable. If you keep having to gimmick then you are writing well.

Hiding the logo low because comic stores don't display them like they used too? I gues he has never been in Four Color Fantasies. This is how monthly books are placed for sale.

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/4color30.jpg

I can't imagine that other places are not like that. The only thing I liked about all that dross was the promise of a tighter continuity. I have always felt Marvel and DC need to hire a couple staffers who spend their time making sure comics fit into continuity. If it didn't fit it was fixed. Tony has no armor here, then none there. He has no money in Invincible then in the Avengers titles he should own factories or be paying for buildings to get fixed or whatever. How can Wolverine be everywhere at the same time waiting for trouble? If everytime he showed up bad shit happened, he would never get past the door. When does Peter sleep? or eat? Or shit? He is all over. Trim it down. I know the Avengers movie did well and Disney is looking at more movies (they have not decided to meddle in comics no matter what some people think) and the Marvel powers that be are trying to show off their numbers too. Just write good stories, keep it tight and make everyone act the way they should. You make more if you keep those who like your stuff not by driving them away. But hey is they want to be dicks there are plenty of old Silver Age Marvel books I do not possess that i want. Hell 4 Color has a set of the dark Phoenix saga books that I was eyeing last week when I grabbed my Uncanny 141 and 142. My cash can go there. I tried the DC 52 and liked some titles but at this point I am down to less than half I tried.

Marvel needs to think about the long run, not the gimmick.


One more thought, they better not Fuck with the Vision again!

It reminds me of "Catholicism WOW" from Dogma. Remember the "buddy Christ"?

The idea behind the avengers comic with more episodic stories covering the marvel universe is a good idea. One I hope bleeds over into the motion media realms like cartoons.

But other than that, most of this is rather meh to me. I hope they leave the few comics I read untouched though or at least let them naturally evolve into new titles.

[QUOTE=Snowflakian;318852]The idea behind the avengers comic with more episodic stories covering the marvel universe is a good idea.QUOTE]

True dat, the Avengers is more of a dynasty than a team nowdays, I can see them following several characters at a time and bringing them together for a finale to the story arch. If anyone could manage several story threads for a long term payoff, it'd be Hickman.

^This.


You want to make your characters more approachable? Publish cliff note histories for cheap. To me that is what Wikipedia is for. Rebooting or new #1's aren't the answer.

NOOOOOOOOO.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5...nspidermap.gif

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On the bright side, Remender confirmed that Uncanny X-Force will continue and that fall out from that book will affect Uncanny Avengers. Wolverine and the X-Men will also continue. And so will Secret Avengers.

Some of these books that are ending were due to hit their conclusions soon. Invincible Iron Man is a great example of a series that was reaching the end of what began about 5 years ago. Brubaker had a great run, one that defined a decade of some of the best Cap stories ever told. Same with Bendis' near decade long run on Avengers.

This isn't just a simple start over at #1, its almost a sort of changing of the guard on some of Marvel's biggest properties and a complete change of direction with new writers taking on these books and an opportunity to hopefully tell better stories...hopefully.

What is that from?




The real problem with that logic is lots of titles went hundreds of issues without needing a do over. Before they did that crappy Heroes reborn Avengers had 402 issues, Captain America and Thor had over 400, Iron Man had over 300. Creative teams came and went. Hell FF has over 600 issues (however they use their voodoo counting) and is their old SUper Hero comic (Journey has been around longer). When people left new stories followed the numbering. When Jack Kirby left FF at 111 did they stop and renumber? No and it makes no sense now just because people are leaving. The crazy shot is in a few years they will renumber the new series to fit into the old numbering pattern.


People only feel a number one is a starting point and they can get in easy. I thought that was the point of the entire .1 books. The idea of a number 1 makes a new series with no background is fucking stupid. Think about it you need to have some history or it makes no sense. History will always be referenced in one way or another. Old stories get mentioned somehow. They only way to make brand new stories is to reboot the entire thing. Go back and retell and edit the old stories and decide how they will be. Or maybe do an ultimate version. Use same names new concepts. Hell DC screwed it up worse. At least with Marvel doing whatever this is they have a reference. In DC tey have yet to decide what has or hasn't happened. They have totally monkeyed with everything and like the last two "fixes" they don't tell you the plan, because they have none. Not that is wasn't a good idea but if you are going to toss History they start new from page one. Don't say the universe is 5 years old and no supers existed before Superman, well except Batman and his brood. It just causes a problem because it is saying what you know doesn't count and what we think you should know we will tell you when we feel about it.

This new Marvel Now thing is some kind of bastardization of this. There will be a fall-out from AvX and everyone will have to deal with it. MAJOR CHANGES or so they have said. They need to work on stories to get back their market share not a gimmick. Changing the creative teams is a good thing as it gets new ideas but giving them new number ones? Bad idea because it sets a precedence that every time they want to do something like this they scrap the old way and try to pry extra cash. The real question should be how many will have alt covers so they can get you to buy more, after all DC had multiple covers for their reissues and Marvel can start out with it by having multiple covers from the get go.

This is not about story telling this is old Marvel greed and that is that. It is no wonder why Disney is letting them rape themselves while they worry about movies. Marvel will do anything to bring in cash anyway they can trick it out of people and Disney doesn't care as long as their is profit. Maybe they need to do comparisons for numbers. Say "Why are our books selling more than DC books because you are doing multiple covers? Can they stand on their own without it?"

And that is the facts

Italian Spiderman. Youtube it, it's hilarious

While you make some good points, and many of which I agree with, especially with the DC reboot reference and Marvels bastardization of it with Marvel Now I can't help but laugh at a comment that I hear often concerning "Marvel Greed" when put in the context of the comic book industry. While the prices are outrageous and events too saturating, I must commend Marvel's marketing endeavors for what is first and foremost a business strategy to keep books selling, which they do, and people employed. As far as greed, I'm sorry but I'm sure Marvels comic book sales are but a small percentage of the revenue intake that actually powers the beast known as Marvel Entertainment a subsidiary of The Walt Disney Company. The biggest money maker for Marvel and DC comes from the licensing of their intellectual properties in other forms of entertainment and merchandising.

While I haven't seen their Ledger, this is a company that was on the verge of Bankruptcy prior to the success of the first X-Men film distributed by Fox. While I may not like every event or story they turn out, I'm not going to go as far as to call something they've proven successful in the business, greedy, when its apparent they are trying to reach and be sensitive to a broader audience as well as maintain a sense of loyalty to long time fans. Its a damn difficult line to tread, but they're willing to take the risks. Guess we'll see where this risk takes them, but I can say based on their market share numbers month to month, their ROI is most likely favorable, which is interesting considering their unit sales are still below DC'S new 52 movement which I attribute to the steady $2.99 price that's much more attractive to the $3.99 price tag for the majority of Marvel's big franchises.

That is true but I think some of it is because of over-saturation. Some heroes are in to many books and a good share of the current writing seems below par in story, art or both. The idea of a mass switch is a good idea but not billing it as an event of some sort. Write good stories, treat the characters well and respect the readers and they will do well. But too much of a difference just to have something different is not a good thing.

I certainly agree with that.

These are simple truths that it seems both companies have either forgotten, or intentionally ignored.
Especially Quesada.

My favourite quote from that massive read on page1,is the one that reads along these lines:

"Good art plus good writer plus good story"

REALLY???? NO F*#KING SHIT SHERLOCK!!!! That is just genius right there,pure unadulterated 24carot gold genius,the fact the the guy has to point this out is surely the reason he shouldnt be doing his job?? Whilst i like the idea of bringing the Big Name characters closer together,do we REALLY need Wolverine on yet another team,as for the 1960's X-Men being pulled forward to the present day....BORING!!!! Jesus im sick of Scott,Bobby,Hank,Warren and Jean,over and over and over...ooooo how will they cope in the Modern Age...blahblahblahblah GIVE US SOMETHING NEW DAMMIT!!!!!

I think the part that does excite me about the Marvel Now comic raping is the tighter continuity. They are going to mess with what I read, maybe for the better maybe not, they should give me something. Make it fit right and consistent then that is great. If I have ot do what I did with the DC 52 and try and drop it works for me. There are plenty of Silver Age goodies at Four Color I want and one of my daughters has taken an interest in Walking Dead so it frees up cash for trades or issues. Marvel, and DC have to show they can earn my money and I am pretty sure most of the people here feel the same thing. What we need to do is if it isn't good don't just muddle through it hoping it gets better, you can send letters or vote by not buying the book. Get others feeling the same way and ideas can be driven into the bosses heads.


I should have followed my own advice for the last couple years and tried to get Bendis away from the Avengers. Would bail from Cap but they have a new team taking over going to see how bad these guys can screw it up.

Yep thats what i do,the amount of times iv picked up a Marvel book,opened it and just been blah at the art,i mean these are supposed to be flagship books,i know i was spoilt by the likes of Jim Lee,Whilce Portacio,and the Kubert Brothers on X-Men,Wolverine etc,and maybe thats the problem,but a lot of books now seem sooo bland,though i have taken a shine to the X-Force books of late and need to do serious catching up......

It's not a "Heroes Reborn/New 52" style fuckover reboot though:
I's been said that contunity remains the same- not a new origin of everyone or whatever- and my favorite titles- Daredevil and Punisher- are untouched, while my favorire new character in a decade, young Loki remains unchanged, though sadly, Journey into Mystery (Marvel's very best title) is cancelled.
There a nw book slated with Loki, Wiccan and a new Miss America rolling out along with ongoing titles for Ant Man (Scott?), Hawkeye, Cable, Nova and some kind of Starlord/GotG book slated- each with a "Point One" issue before the first issue.

Man, they better have some explanation how Starlord is alive and what happened to Richard Rider, since the Nova seems to be that lameass kid made for the Spectacular Spider Man animated series and shown briefly in AvsX #1.

If they had really rebooted Marvel, I'd have dropped every title, I swear.

TOTALLY AGREE!
I mean, currently, we have crap like Iron Man or CHildren's Crusade(which is thankfully over) and the impossibly awful Avengers assemble which CAN NOT work in any way with what is happening in outside those books.

In Avengers assemble, which was billed as in-contunity to LCS owners, we have crap like Thanos, Drax and Starlord alive with no explanation and Starlord has blonde hair and his old Ship alive again and....

Good God it's nightmarishly awful, in spite of decent art.

@Jason-

I had someone on the ign boards blast me for being upset that there's gonna be another Nova book and I'm upset that its this Sam Alexander guy. He has never read any of the DnA cosmic stories but says I'm blasting a character I know nothing about other than his cartoon version in USM. That I was am ungrateful fan because Marvel is actually catering to me the fan by respecting the sacrifice of Richard Rider by bringing a new Nova back (Sam) instead of Richard Rider.

...LMFAO.