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All I'm saying is if you're going to say that Batman should be easily killed with a single bullet after a few issues, then so should Punisher/Spider-man/Daredevil/Nick Fury/Antman/Huntress/Tony Stark/Black Canary/Green Arrow. How would they fair any better than Batman other than the fact that they're Marvel characters? I don't think Batman would fair any better than that list in a real life situation, but it's a comic book. When you start saying, "It's cool but sucks because he should be dead by now.", I feel then that should open up ALL comic book characters to be evaluated equally. I don't want to turn this into a "Batman vs. Punisher, who is better" discussion, though, because I like both characters. |
Its interesting that an earlier comment made reference to Stone Cold Steve Austin (who's character owes more to Wolverine and not the other way around), because this almost reminds me of the late 90's battle of WWF vs WCW
WCW had the icons for a while while WWF was pushing the limits of the obscene for ratings. While I certainly don't see Superman turning Hollywood Hogan on us (for those who get the references ) I really do see some similarities. Everything in WWF was just build up to the next soap opera story line *cough*Marvel event*cough* back then. Sorry guys not sure where I'm going with this, guess nostalgia was kicking in. |
Well i used to love the old Keith Giffen run on Justice League International,i liked how they all riffed off each other,Blue Beetle and Booster Gold acting the comedians,Guy Gardener being an ass to everyone, Bats and Martian Manhunter acting all grim,it was a great series with great writing....but when the Jim Lee era X-men books(my first was giant-sized #275 X-men in space/magneto and Rogue in the Savage Land) hit the stands they absolutely blew me away with the detailed,technical take on the X-verse,iv only ever read the X-books none of the other Marvel Books appealed to me,im a Massive sci-Fi fan as well,and i love time travel/alternate timelines so obviously Cable was a massive draw for me,however the drop in the standard of art AND storytelling eventually pushed me away from as i just can never find anything that screams READ ME!! That said iv recently bought the X-men:Supernovas + Age of X collected editions and enjoyed them a lot (though i would have prefered a Jim Lee/Andy Kubert type artist on of Age of X,as i dont feel the art did the concept justice!!) For me personally DC just doesnt draw me in,iv never seen a DC book that has MADE me want to read it,whereas Marvels do pique my curiosity,and shallow as it may be,i do think good art matters,and that where historically i think Marvel have always beaten DC...
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...what? Don't look at me like that. Its not like I got off on it...very often. |
You know what I want to put a lot of debate and thought into my comments, Both companies have icons, amazing stories, great, bad, terrible, mean, angry, giant, loving, hereos, villains, storylines,plots,lots of drama and saga, epic battles, sorrow, loss, death, overcoming something, as we all face shit on a daily basis in 1 form or another. Comics helps us relate to others, eveny some, and the rest immortalize and place them upon your mantle of awesomeness. I love Marvel and DC, but when it comes to where my $$ goes it's with Marvel.
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I think they both have their place. For me DC has always had the A tier with Superman Batman and Wonder Woman. Marvel had the B team with Spiderman Hulk and Captain America.
Basically for me growing up it was be on tv or in the movies or be gone. The c tier would have been the flash, fantastic four Iron man. One thing they both need to stop. killing People and bringing them back. Superman, Batman Wonder Woman and Green Lantern are dead. Good luck with Flash Green Arrow and Martian Manhunter. Marvel, no more Steve Rogers, Professer X, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Spiderman etc. Like Jud said. Sometimes dead is better Second. Alignment changes. Magento and Dr. Doom are bad guys. Green Lantern does not massacre millions. minor pet peeve ridiculous costumes. For example. Recent comic two pack with Wonderman and Quicksilver. Starts out with a bad guy in a sharp suit walkign through time viewing the kennedy assanation I was intrigued. Then he came back to the main timeline and his suit chnaged to a green and purple bit with a giant purple top hat. ....sigh. |
Agreed, that irritates me to no end.
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I totally disagree about Magneto,i think hes a better villain for his attempts at walking the right path,and failing(the deaths of the New Mutants on his watch etc)the Holocaust background was a great idea,because it ties into the whole genetic hatred thing,and early Magneto would have been an angry man,as he's got older,he's matured and tried to be a better man,i think he's possibly one the best comic characters there is,conflicted,by loss and grief,broken by his past,determined to protect "his people" the best he can by any means neccessary,he is the Malcolm X to Xavier's Martin Luther King,before he was just another one-sided super powered villain...
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Well, I've said it before and it's been repeated in thread, so I'll just do a quick summary.
Pros Marvel: more relatable, humanized characters. And not just heroes or villains. Even their supporting casts are more identifiable. Also, the villains are much more threatening, the heroes can and do lose (sometimes badly). DC: Larger-than-life icons and (for most of them) heroes we idolize. The bad guys always lose, so we get to see heroes kick some ass. Less complicated storytelling, basically. Cons Marvel: The anti-hero plague. The unnecessary and stupid death/rebirth cycle. Too many crossovers and not enough separation between teams (it's a smaller list to name who is NOT an Avenger). DC: Heroes and villains seem over-the-top and more fantastical. The rogues gallery is, with few exceptions, pathetic. The unnecessary and stupid death/rebirth cycle. The inability to stick to one continuity and avoid rewriting it seemingly every time a new creative team is brought on-board. Quote:
And while Bruce may not be as quick as Peter, I will say that Batman's costume is designed to give Bruce that extra couple of seconds so he can dodge gunfire. Why do you think his cape is ridiculously long? It's to mask his movements and keep the gunmen guessing on where to fire. Oh, yeah and apparently the cape's bulletproof now too, so that helps. And in regards to iconic imagery, I'd put the X-logo right up there with the S-shield, Bat-signal, and Spider-symbol as the most widely-known. Certainly above Wonder Woman. Hell, I'd put Green Lantern's logo above Wonder Woman's, given his recent movie and current TV show. |
treble, im going to have to disagree with you on the DC pros. Pre-New 52, DC was notorious for having long drawn out storylines that only seasoned readers would understand. Thats part of the reason DC hit the reset button in the first place. Try explaining to someone the plot to Final Crisis lol.
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The only real difference I see between the two is this:
Marvel: Everyone and their grandmother has a healing factor now, thanks to a lot of writers thinking Wolverine's is really cool. DC: If you don't understand what's going on, wait ten years and they'll have a huge company wide reboot that you new readers can then jump on to. |
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As for DC, you got reading material like Killing Joke, The Long Halloween, Infinate Crisis, 52, O'Neil series of The Question. Then you got major events like Blackest Night, and Flashpoint. So, as I said. Story telling goes to DC, characters [for most part] is Marve. |
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I wish Marvel would just STICK with something though.
Bucky should of been Cap for awhile longer [a few years] Commander Rogers should still be Commander Rogers! Wolverine and Spider-Man need to stop being whores, seriously. When they kill some one off, leave them DEAD, make it mean something [Johnny Storm] |
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Although I just picked up the Wolverine and the X-men hardcover today and I was pretty damn impressed. If all the Wolvie I saw was in this title and Uncanny X-Force all would be well for me. The only Spidey I read these days is the new Miles Morales Ultimate Spidey. I have avoided all the 616 related stories because there's too many to keep up with. Is there anything worth reading recently in 616 Spidey, anyone? |
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As for Marvel, their stories always seem to have a consequence or a price must be paid in order for the heroes to win. They can't just have a clean story arc like this: 1. Villain does a bad thing 2. Hero chases/tracks villain down 3. Hero and villain fight 4. Hero wins; villain goes to jail I'm not saying I want Marvel or DC to only write stories like this from now on, but it would be a nice change of pace from all the crossovers, team-ups and other huge story events. Those events should be special because they're rarely seen, not just because they're a big event. |
Big events in comics are what summer blockbusters are to the movie industry. Huge cash grabs, relatively. Honestly, i cant see reading comics without them anymore. Its the fact that the stories I read are leading up to something big. But in hindsight not every event is inherently a good story. A good example is the clusterf*** that was Chaos War. i bought into it and was so freakin confused
On a side note, anyone make a parallel to the Chaos King heavily resembling the Void/Sentry? |
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Only difference is everyone hated Todd enough to demand he be killed in the first place. No one ever wanted to see him brought back, not only because he was so reviled, but because how meaningful his death was to the Batman mythos. When it was announced he was coming back for real, everyone was dead against it. Now, if they tried to get rid of him, everyone would freak out. Jason Todd and Bucky... two of a kind. >_< |
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