Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey (Post 626510)

I have to admit, I really couldn't care less if only because I'm sick of seeing Slave Leia everywhere as if it's the only outfit Leia ever wore in the movies. For goodness sake, the first Black Series Leia we got was in that outfit, which is kind of an insult to her character.

Originally Posted by ZackRoyer (Post 626527)

A friend of mine posted this in a group i'm part of, it was yesterday and suddenly a trash figure is worth more than 3 digits. Keep dreaming it was because your snowflake hearts, this is the real reason decisions are made, money.

Also talking about "objetification" in a forum about toys, that are objects kek, talk about irony...

http://i.imgur.com/vntQC6E.jpg

Originally Posted by Snowflakian (Post 626454)

Okay, this convo really took a turn for the weird.

First of all, this isn't about being sexy or not. Being sexy is okay.

Slave Leia is not about being sexy. It's about subjugation, humiliation, and degradation. That's not sexy, that's sexual assault. The entire premise of that outfit is it's without consent. It's about coercion. That's sexual assault. That's what makes her choking Jabba with the chain satisfying as the ending turn on the outfit's history. It is her not letting herself be a victim and using those same shackles to strangle him with. The very ones Jabba tried to demean and hold her down with.

No one is talking about rewriting star wars or changing it. The 6 movies released as they are now will stay as they are now. This is about merchandise moving forward.

There is a difference between story and merchandising. The story as it stands as a piece of art across several movies as a saga is staying as it is, and will grow as the next 3 films develop the aftermath of the previous 6 for this overall universe.

No one is retconning what's already been put to film. This is only about the merchandise itself.

Though that's a very good point about Anakin and it is easily overlooked because of how it's played up for comedic ends with Wattoo. It won't be retconned, but I don't think they'll be making a point of that ever on any future young Anakin figures on the card back bio. It is part of his character history as much as the metal bikini is part of Leia's, but that also doesn't mean it has to define him or her either. It is one moment of their past that they escaped from to show it gets better and that they can still be strong willed complicated characters with complicated histories and actions all of their own. There are also mild questions about Anakin and Amidala's relationship itself because of their age difference to when she got pregnant and no one knowing for certain how old he was then considering she met him when he was a kid.

But yeah, let's make this clear real quick. No one is talking about changing the movies as they stand now. No one is talking about a reboot and changing it all. This is only about the merchandising end.

Originally Posted by BlackRazor (Post 626551)

That's why she's dressed that way. It's what this domino could lead to, I've already heard people ask why do cheerleaders have to wear short skirts to cheer on men in their games? Is that where we're headed to as a society, if some don't like something, we get rid of it? Some of you may be right about this one but things like this never end with just one issue. Moving forward, do filmmakers make scenes more G or PG like just so nobody is offended?

Originally Posted by kylactus (Post 626559)

I think filmmakers try to keep the rating comparable to there demographic, for instance Lucas could have thrown some gore and nudity into Star Wars, but ultimately he pulled in a larger audience by keeping it clean and appealing to kids of all ages. if the first Star Wars had an R rating it would have probably been the only one, and not imprinted into the brains of millions of children propelling it to the iconic status it enjoys today.

Originally Posted by kylactus (Post 626573)

I don't know, I don't think of a bikini as that big a deal anymore. no one I know of has complained about ROTJ as being misogynistic until now. I don't understand when there are films about graphic bondage, rape and murder, why a classic movie is under fire all of a sudden. my guess, a small fringe element of society at large demands we all see things there way. for them there is no room for negotiation, and no understanding of what it takes to maintain a civil society with free speech. They win or they cry foul. with Star Wars heating up again these self appointed crusaders that think they're brave, bold, and revolutionary, feel the need all of a sudden to point out to us that everything we've ever been exposed to is wrong and bad. and the only way forward is not to have any independent thought. that may hurt someone's precious feelings. the "progressive" mind sees the majority as bad, and any ideas that aren't there own as evil. freedom only applies to them in there minds. It's just a childish need to feel important. I hope some loud boring jackass with too much time on there hands revels in the privilege of having there tombstone read: here lies Susan, she made such an important impact on the world by banning slave Leah figures that world peace was possible."

Originally Posted by K Dubious (Post 626595)

I really enjoy reading these points of view, but I have another wrench to throw into the disscussion. All of this is my opinion as I do not feel the need to justify MY POINT OF VIEW!

Happy People vs. Negative People

I have never understood certain personalities and was just addressing this with some work friends. I feel like some people live thier life looking for a reason to be upset. I think we all realize that the people that are unhappy with something are WAY more vocal than people that just like something. The part of this that I don't understand is that even when the unhappy "win" it is still not a victory and they are still unhappy that the outcome occurred in the first place.

So Kylactus Susan's Tombstone will more likely read something to the effect of:

Here lies Susan, she made such an important impact on the world by banning slave Leah figures that world peace was possible, but although the world was at peace Susan could never find her own due to being outraged that the world wasn't always at peace.

Originally Posted by kylactus (Post 626573)

I don't know, I don't think of a bikini as that big a deal anymore. no one I know of has complained about ROTJ as being misogynistic until now. I don't understand when there are films about graphic bondage, rape and murder, why a classic movie is under fire all of a sudden. my guess, a small fringe element of society at large demands we all see things there way. for them there is no room for negotiation, and no understanding of what it takes to maintain a civil society with free speech. They win or they cry foul. with Star Wars heating up again these self appointed crusaders that think they're brave, bold, and revolutionary, feel the need all of a sudden to point out to us that everything we've ever been exposed to is wrong and bad. and the only way forward is not to have any independent thought. that may hurt someone's precious feelings. the "progressive" mind sees the majority as bad, and any ideas that aren't there own as evil. freedom only applies to them in there minds. It's just a childish need to feel important. I hope some loud boring jackass with too much time on there hands revels in the privilege of having there tombstone read: here lies Susan, she made such an important impact on the world by banning slave Leah figures that world peace was possible."

Originally Posted by SymbiSpidey (Post 626605)

From what I understand, the issue isn't that the Slave Leia outfit exists at all. The issue is that, despite being an outfit that is mostly insignificant to the overall story of RotJ, it has become the single most marketable version of the character solely because it depicts Leia in a skimpy outfit, which is pretty bad when you consider that she wore the outfit because she was Jabba's implied sex slave. It reduces the character to the one scene in the movie where she was subjugated and held against her will. Granted, Leia DOES kick some ass in the outfit, but she also kicks ass in every other outfit she's ever worn.

And yeah, there are depictions of rape in certain films, but you don't see people fetishizing those scenes and buying all of the action figures depicting that character in that particular moment because it's "sexy".

Even still, I don't think the slave outfit by itself is necessarily offensive. I just think the obsession with it prevents other, more iconic outfits from getting the spotlight.

Originally Posted by scarecrow (Post 626604)

I don't think people having a point of view that is less accepting of things that might be objectionable means they are less happy.

People who are free thinkers and were unhappy are the reason America exists in the first place. I consider myself to be a very happy person at this stage in my life. That doesn't mean nothing is ever wrong or societal norms should never be challenged.

And it's not always about us. Sometimes it's about the people you care about, and you want them to be happy. For instance, I never gave two shits about feminism or things changing until I started meeting women who had legitimately good arguments for why they speak out at times. Then I started meeting men who did too. I think it's not so much an enormous change, but not raging against new thoughts or groups all the time. Change is scary, but it's not always bad.

Part of being happy for me means accepting on occasion that other points of view are valid and not Hitler-esque attempts to control humanity, because when I rage like I see people doing on here my life feels totally out of balance. Because it doesn't mean anything to me in the scheme of my personal freedoms. But if humbling myself once in awhile makes some people feel more welcome or comfortable, it's worth it to me.

Nobody really has any business saying what does or does not constitute someone's happiness, only their own.

Originally Posted by K Dubious (Post 626618)

I couldn't agree more, also I want to say I was throwing that piece into the discussion, not trying to point fingers at any of the previous posts.

I am a firm believer that only YOU can control YOUR happiness, my post was simply pointing out that some people choose to live life from a negative point of view and I will never fully understand that.

I am one of the nicest and accepting people I have ever met, lol. I also like to be open minded and truly hear the other side of every story. I am an educated person, but I never try to be right! I try to understand where someone is coming from and see if their opinion makes more sense than my own. What infuriates me is the lack of respect from the more often offended. In almost every battle I feel like the offened only wants change there is no middle ground, "make this go away as there is no other solution" is not a solution.

Originally Posted by K Dubious (Post 626618)

I couldn't agree more, also I want to say I was throwing that piece into the discussion, not trying to point fingers at any of the previous posts.

I am a firm believer that only YOU can control YOUR happiness, my post was simply pointing out that some people choose to live life from a negative point of view and I will never fully understand that.

I am one of the nicest and accepting people I have ever met, lol. I also like to be open minded and truly hear the other side of every story. I am an educated person, but I never try to be right! I try to understand where someone is coming from and see if their opinion makes more sense than my own. What infuriates me is the lack of respect from the more often offended. In almost every battle I feel like the offened only wants change there is no middle ground, "make this go away as there is no other solution" is not a solution.

Originally Posted by K Dubious (Post 626618)

I couldn't agree more, also I want to say I was throwing that piece into the discussion, not trying to point fingers at any of the previous posts.

I am a firm believer that only YOU can control YOUR happiness, my post was simply pointing out that some people choose to live life from a negative point of view and I will never fully understand that.

I am one of the nicest and accepting people I have ever met, lol. I also like to be open minded and truly hear the other side of every story. I am an educated person, but I never try to be right! I try to understand where someone is coming from and see if their opinion makes more sense than my own. What infuriates me is the lack of respect from the more often offended. In almost every battle I feel like the offened only wants change there is no middle ground, "make this go away as there is no other solution" is not a solution.

Originally Posted by F1sh1000 (Post 626629)

the problem is this....

If I don't like something and I choose not to buy it, my problem is solved. It only affects me and me alone

If I don't like something and I choose nobody can buy it, I now affect people who don't share my personal taste by forcing my influence onto everyone

The first method solves the problem for the offended, why does it have to apply to everyone?? Why can't everyone have the option to choose what they like or dislike? People who think you ARNT suitable to make your own choices are people who think you ARNT suitable for freedom...even if they word it a different way

Freedom is being able to choose, not to be chosen for

Originally Posted by scarecrow (Post 626633)

This isn't about freedom of choice. If you want a Slave Leia figure you can get one, it just might be harder now based on prices and availability.

It's about people who are easily influenced, i.e. kids. It's about little girls or boys not having to deal with tougher themes like sex slavery or the general creepiness of Jabba's handling of females. These are issues we as adults can come to our own conclusions on, but as it's been said before, they have no place in child's play.

Originally Posted by BlackRazor (Post 626635)

Do you honestly think kids are really having such a tough time with it or is it more sensitive adults?

And maybe you're right, maybe her figure should only be sold to those over 18. Nobody said films that may appeal to kids just have to be made & marketed entirely with kids in mind.

Originally Posted by scarecrow (Post 626633)

This isn't about freedom of choice. If you want a Slave Leia figure you can get one, it just might be harder now based on prices and availability.

It's about people who are easily influenced, i.e. kids. It's about little girls or boys not having to deal with tougher themes like sex slavery or the general creepiness of Jabba's handling of females. These are issues we as adults can come to our own conclusions on, but as it's been said before, they have no place in child's play.

Originally Posted by scarecrow (Post 626633)

This isn't about freedom of choice. If you want a Slave Leia figure you can get one, it just might be harder now based on prices and availability.

It's about people who are easily influenced, i.e. kids. It's about little girls or boys not having to deal with tougher themes like sex slavery or the general creepiness of Jabba's handling of females. These are issues we as adults can come to our own conclusions on, but as it's been said before, they have no place in child's play.

Originally Posted by kylactus (Post 626644)

If the "kids" weren't so brainwashed by the fuzzy wuzzys and the self proclaimed social engineers that are attempting to make the world over in there own twisted image regardless of facts, maybe they could handle the brutal mental imagery of a giant puppet having a bikini girl on a chain in a children's movie. how many girls do you know that grew up in the 80's and became strippers and volunteer sex slaves because of Leah's influence? this world is a screwed up place, all i'm suggesting is that the Nobel liberal progressive communist or whatever the custodians of decency are calling themselves this week go out into the world and fight some real battles. you don't like slaves? go to east Africa and save some! go to Iran and demand equal treatment for women, head to UAE and tell them women aren't objects. Oh wait it's easier to pick on people that can usually be intimidated by being called a bigot, racist, or misogynistic right? if your in the US that's suppose to mean you put up with everyone's shit, we put up with yours and we all get along it's called tolerance, when you try to push your views on people that don't hold your "enlightened" perspective and force them to see it your way or coerce them through intimidation or name calling, that's called validation. these are characters in a movie, if you can't handle them indirectly offending you I suggest you go live under a rock, the world is a big scary place full of daily evil and atrocities you can't begin to understand. and the REAL bad people don't give a shit what you think, or who you are or who you think you are. they'll kill you for offending them by being alive. so if you want to puff up and complain about our "racist" "sexist" "phobic" country, I suggest you move to Afghanistan with your progressive ideas and see just how good you have it here where no matter how stupid, uninformed, confused, or ass backward your opinion is, it won't get you killed, or locked up in a dungeon.