Then I wont bother to read the rest of your post as it most likely has no value to me whatsoever. Being that it probably boils down to: "I hate the show."

But it's only fair I suppose, given I loathed Extreme Ghostbusters. Gawd what a disgustingly awful show that was.

Ok list some examples of successful modern cartoon series (outside of TF's) that have a massive fanbase amongst adults)How would you make them "groundbreaking" yet retain what makes them TMNT?? Like it or not the biggest market for toys is kids,not adult collectors,and this line has a great balance of something for everyone.

[QUOTE=trebleshot;245265]Well,considering they're supposed to be teenagers, they shouldn't look (or act) like adults anyway. Also, the new show is actually closer in look to their original form (which was in a comic book meant to parody the comic trends of the day).[/QUOTE]

HIT.NAIL.ON.HEAD.

These look awesome.

But that's not even what the kids want, 21st century kids want the PG-13 we would like to strive for too. And it's not a win-win if the enormous fanbase TMNT brought on from the first movie and TV series loses interest in the show.

When have they ever behaved just like teens? Ninja's, killers, vanquishers, and they are half-turtles; I don't see teen role models in regards to behavior.

The classics were what made TMNT, then the cheesy show came in, and the movie took some of the classic concepts and made it a huge success- I mean if it wasn't successful for the violence, the part-realistic concept of the turtles (they could actually swear for one) it wouldn't have been the big seller that it was. I think the TMNT nick show is a ship doomed to sink, it is nothing like what I was hoping for and I expected this kind of turnabout nonetheless from Nick considering they are based on these kiddie concepts.

I can tell you that it's going to get rank when it comes back down, this looks just like a Kung Fu Panda crossover and nothing like TMNT; the dark, gritty, ninja part of these series is what made TMNT TMNT. (By now it should be MNT.)


Do you honestly want me to name EVERY modern adult-appeal cartoon-knock-off that was revived for Today's generation? What about Spiderman? Batman? Superman? The Justice Force? Oh, and dare I say it, My Little Pony?? Do I really need to go on? And I can tell you that the series they developed for those franchises appealed to both children and adults, as did TMNT 2k3 for those who are fans of the series (I don't even need to cite how it appealed.) Oh, and let's not forget, the eighties series morphed over time and became very dark and gritty to appeal to a growing audience.

If they did look like their original form, they would look a lot like their original forms; multi-colored bandanas, height differences, body differences, different eye color and even Don is missing a tooth- how is this anything coming even CLOSE to being related to the original comics?

As for me personally, what would I do to make it "groundbreaking", well... I have plans, and as a fan I have been considering exactly what should be done for years now. I don't want to open yet exactly what should be done, but for an example, making them respectable? Iconic for the new generation, not for reliving the old one (time to move on), reviving them as a fresh concept instead of a knock-off of the old eighties cartoon. It's time they grew up, older, and added emotional value- nothing as stupid as what Nick is trying to show off here. Let's put it this way: Would you see Ironman in leotards, or in a full bodied suit of armor?

_____________

Honestly, TMNT would thrive on both angles if they keep it dark and gritty; it's how they started out anyway. The kids, and this is obvious, want to see the action and the violence as fans of TMNT; degrading TMNT for the sake of trying to pass it off with the same chemistry that was an eighties shtick isn't a viable direction, the eighties stayed in the eighties and everyone grew up.

The original turtles never had multicolored bandanas. That was a movie and toon thing to differentiate them and market them to kids. The original comic turtles all had the same bandana. The originals also had elongated necks, and more varied differences than the mainstreaming used.

They have acted like teens throughout all. No one said Teen role-models, just teenagers. That includes the pizza, angst, drama, egos, attitude, and problems with authority. It also includes their wanting to learn more about the world they are in. The entire teen angle of too young to be on their own, but wanting it nonetheless.

The CBS seasons aren't fan favorite seasons by any stretch, and is what led to that era of TMNT dying.

I do agree they can cater to both kids and adults, but without the show airing, how can you say for certain that's not what they are doing anyway? 2k3 many would have said "Kiddie BS" before it aired too, and yet that show and follows up brought the line back to the mainstream and is hailed as one of the best TMNT series yet.

Ratings and toy sales are too different things though. A show can be successful and make money even without a toyline and vice versa. It just helps marketing to have one. They are two distinct revenue streams, and I'm sure they don't expect every adult that watches the show to buy every toy, while they do want the kids to.

TMNT was still built on a kids market though, and that's where the toys lean, though they still have more poseability than any previous mainstream turtles line has ever had.

If you want 'original forms' look at the NECA figures. Not the playmates/original toon ones.
TMNT has always been aimed at children, as have the other properties and toons you mentioned. It's just they also cater enough so parents can enjoy it too as well as fans, but again we've yet to see anything here to say that's not what they are doing anyway for the tv show. The main intent here is to get a new generation of kids into it to keep the line strong. Going too violent would also make many parents not want to let their kids watch it like how many parents don't like their kids watching power rangers or spongebob for the adult humor.

... that's what I was saying, that is exactly what I was inferring, that is why they don't look anything like the original.

Have you honestly met any teenager that can directly relate to them "exactly"? This is fantasy, and not everyone likes pizza; this is a very diverse statement, the appeal is to a certain crowd. And if you didn't notice, they are on their own throughout the whole series, the TMNT family is on their own. And I don't recall monsters, aliens, space travel, time travel, irregular mutant behavior, ninja training, or in that general ideal to be what a normal teenager has to go through or to what they act like (today's teens are... well, more varied and I can say nothing like TMNT in the general stance.).

For the majority, even from the eighties cartoons, they don't even SOUND like teenagers; sometimes they can talk like a teenager, and sound nothing like one, then they don't sound like them and then can't talk like one either at times throughout. This statement you made is so diverse, too many angles, you can't expect a bunch of teens to be the only fans here driving the bullet and I know they just don't intend "teens" to be the show case appeal.

That depends on who you talk to, because I can honestly tell you that Ten seasons of continuance of the old TMNT series isn't a small feat.

That is because they advertised, and promoted, those TMNT seasons without the kiddie crap. That also depends on who you talk to, because I am more than certain there are many people who would disagree with you. 2k3 is my favorite modern TMNT series, and I feel the best out of the bunch, they never promoted it in its start-up a "kiddie" series and they proved how un-kiddie related it was when you watched it. This, this new TMNT, it's just about as dorky and stupid as the old eighties series. Are they promoting gun fights? Impressive monsters? Mature, Sophisticated and dark turtles? No, they are promoting kids toys and a silly concept. It isn't an adult appeal, at all, not even in the slightest resemblance.

Toys aren't what make the series, that dies off after a while, and then everyone wants the show or movie. Even now, everyone is getting more attached to digital technology- toys are becoming indifferent in many aspects.

Not always, not for every concept, and what about 2k3?

But this isn't that kind of a generation, parents are for more lenient than they were twenty years ago and many many TMNT fans are adults if not most of them. TMNT is extremely violent, that's how it remains in its appeal, ninja-action-violence. And yet Power Rangers and Sponge Bob are extremely successful, so what does that tell you about the modern generation?

These "kids" you keep refering to,are these the SAME kids that are lapping up BEN-10,Bakugan,Spongebob,etc?? Hardly PG-13 shows!!! And if i had children aged 5-10 NO WAY would i be happy letting them watch an animated show packed full of PG-13 violence,and i dont see parents across the USA(or the world) being any different,children live in a different world to adults,their toys fight,die and come back the next day to fight and die all over again,do you really think a dark violent,swearing filled animated show would make any headway ANYWHERE in the world?? The word "ninja" had to be dropped from the title and changed to "hero" before the original 80s show could even be aired in the UK,because "ninja" was deemed too violent!!! i appreciate your concerns and you are obviously a MASSIVE TMNT fan,but as i stated before toys and the shows based off/around them are intended for kids,and us adults have to accept that,and make the compromise. Give the new show a chance,you may be surprised,and if not at least (hopefully) welcome a whole new generation of TMNT fans into the fold,and introduce them to the original versions you cherish.

You and I must live in two different worlds, because I don't agree with you at all; I have seen a completely different side of this fandom that is more diverse and far more intuitive to the modern needs of TMNT fans, and they want dark-gritty ninja action. This crap, this kiddie-crap, is only going to bring the series down; I can only hope the movie will help the series (which is supposed to be dark, gritty, and very different from this shows concept in every way. Why would they even bother to make a TMNT film like that if they didn't think it would succeed?). And if the parents were against the modern TV series of TMNT, the 2k3 series would have been shut down waaaaay back.

We'll see what happens, but this is new reboot for the TMNT TV series is a joke.

Somebody with a better mindset, gut instincts, and perspective needs to take charge- Nick isn't the place to go.

And BTW, do you honestly think that this is in any way a compromise? 2k3, was a compromise, this isn't a compromise at all.

I bow to your superior knowledge of TMNT fandom,as im just a guy who likes cool figures,and i REALLY dig the nod to the original comic book stylings these new guys have,not to mention that kickass giant playset,my last comment is that you maybe need to step back and take an objective look at the TMNT from the outside, regardless of grown-up fandoms opinions,kids will always be a toyline/cartoon's target audience. No reasonable parent is going to let their 5-10year old child watch a dark,gritty,realistic violence filled cartoon,and no TV channel would EVER air such a show in a slot where children could see it. I totally understand where you are coming from,and i DO think a dark gritty TMNT show would be awesome,but unless someone put together a Fansproject type show,i just dont personally see it ever happening.

Then I don't see how great of a source you would be in this conversation for an understanding of the fandom, if all you're here for is the toys.

Do you honestly think sarcasm will get you anywhere in this? All I see is your insecurity on the subject and your statements only give me doubts on your overall depth to this franchise.

You are making a LOT of absolutes, I happen to know this is not what the fans wanted and that includes myself as I am a fan. I didn't come here without an understanding, even the younger audience wants the action I am looking for.

So, would you be right in saying, that my parents weren't in their right minds when they allowed me to watch certain fun PG-13 films when I was nine or ten? There are people, even as adults, who can't handle certain subjects or movies with a PG-13 rating while others can; this also reflects to children. There are movies with a PG-13 rating that can be watched with or without adult supervision and it can be very appropriate with different people; sometimes a rating refers to violence and others reflect on to subjects that aren't even appropriate for a PG-13; it all depends on the movie and the intent behind it.

I just feel that this reboot is a massive step backwards; if 2k3 was appropriate and popular why are we taking twenty years in back steps?

*sigh* there was no sarcasm,and if you got that impression,then i apologise,i was genuinely saying you clearly know more than me about the fandom side,so im going to wrap this up with: i like the toys,and regardless of my TMNT knowledge the last time i looked this was a site for toy fans,and im certainly not going to apologise for being a toy fan,but equally im not going to continue when my "worth" to the conversation is being called into question. As far as im aware my opinion carries just as much weight as yours,so thank you for an interesting debate,iv enjoyed talking things out with you,i hope you enjoy your time here on the Ark,and arent too disappointed with the new show.

"sometimes i doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion"

i dunno, as cool as a gritty and bloody comic styled TMNT would be, it's just not gonna happen so long as the studios think TMNT as a property is more successful with kids. which it is judging from 1987 series and toyline which spawned tons of games and movies and was the source of inspiration in some way for all of the incarnations.

also this is a toy site. i think it's ok if someone looked at these new toys and thought of their youth watching the show and buying up the multitudes of figures. that shouldn't be a knock against their fandom.

Then I apologize, no one has ever said that to me without intending it to be a cruel jab or worse; I understand.

Oh certainly not, but this is not in question to what the toys future is, but the actual show all together; they could make great TMNT action figures without the need to bring the show down in response.

I can't help being only but greatly disappointed, I thank you all the same; I look forward to the movie, and I hope we meet again on another topic. Great talking to you :)

2k3 spawned a massive reboot and was extremely successful, that tells you what the modern generation wants and likes.

Very true, but I'm disappointed in the show NOT the toys; I think the action figures are great, but the show doesn't even come close to par.

I actually enjoyed the later seasons, but if you look at the numbers for those last CBS seasons, and talk to the average kid reactions from the time, alongside even most modern fan discussions of it. It all comes to the same thing with marketing data to prove it. Those last CBS seasons are what killed the tmnt franchise.

Power Rangers going strong is a different argument entirely, it's not geared entirely for the 4 and up crowd unlike tmnt. PR has an audience of 8+ intended.

If you really look back at 2k3, while it was more balanced in story conveyance, they did use a lot of techniques to cover up the action. It also had more of a lesson to the episodes as well to balance the violence. (Most notably the anti-gang episodes, among many others.)

It's called a teenage stereotype btw. The pizza, attitudes, and growth are all drawn from teenage stereotypes. Yes it deals with scifi/fantasy elements too, but again they are talking turtles so why does that matter? The stereotypes for the personalities still remain true even with the ninja training.

It's fine if you don't like the new direction the show may take or how the toys look that's fine, but to call it wrong on any level without seeing how it's executed is rather asinine. They have TMNTC for collectors like you. Let this generation have their new take. 2k3 turned out great, and this has just as much of a chance to be as great or better.

TBH, you sound like the same people that bemoaned TF animated, and then later praised it.

Um...Hey look, a video review:

Playmates Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2012 Michelangelo Figure Review - YouTube

If TMNT were "killed" as you put it, then there wouldn't have been now two modern reboots; I don't know what you mean by "killing", it was the end of an era of TMNT that needed to move on. Ten seasons, ten seasons, you can't ignore those statistics.

You brought it up, I didn't, and if it's 8+ then it appeals to a wide range audience including adults (which means balanced.).

I don't see how that counts for anything in regards to the fact that there was violence, there was even mind-numbing horror attached to the series- what nullifies those effects? Of course there is a balance, but there is zero balance in this reboot; just what are you driving at?

Then how is that appealing for teenagers if it is nothing but stereotypes? What does this have to do with anything that we are discussing?

It HAS already been executed, presented, promoted, categorized and bulletined- this is a big mistake and it's only going to get worse as the series continues like this.

Instead of the original fan base, we may end up actually losing some fans, now a lot of hope is residing on the new upcoming movie.

And just for your information, I am not a toy fan; I am a fan of the series, not the toys.

I'm not a big fan of the Transformers series either, and how am I moaning and PRAISING when the prize package has been delivered? Now look who's stereotyping.

oh man already! looks like they're about the right size. i hope these hit a bit earlier than the show. prolly end up painting some of the details and giving em a more textured wash.

Blah blah. Every official incarnation of TMNT has been awesome whether you're talking the old Mirage stuff or the original animated series or the Archie comics or the movies or the newer animated series. The movies were great, even III with it's time traveling shenanigans. The latest computer generated movie rocked. Even Next Mutation was pretty good in a Power Rangers sort of way. Let's not bicker as we're all fans of Turtle Power in our own way. :)

Yep that was gonna be one of my first modifications as soon as i get hold of Donatello!!I may also re-wrap the feet and fingers(iv found ptfe tape is great for making substitute bandages,or wrappings.) And looking at the pics,there does seem to be quite a lot of surface detail(especially on the shells) that would soon be brought out with a quick ink wash.....Do we know an actual release date?? People were saying autumn/fall i believe?? Man thats AGEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS away dammit!!!

Wow! I didn't know there was someone where who's been to the future and seen the full series!

What makes you so absolutely positive a show that does not yet exist will be and is the most horrible thing that ever existed, based on a few still shots shown at toyfair?

Did I ever say that it "is the most horrible thing that ever existed"? Isn't this what we call, lying, and misinformation? I am seemingly jumping into your bad side without even trying, forgive me for seeing the fiasco here. The show does exist, are you ignoring the still shots or are just trying to be funny?

Do you need a full diagram to take a look and see the screw up? We just came from the modern rebooted TMNT to a remake of the old 80's series, we are now back pedaling, what makes you think this will ever even come CLOSE to fairing just as well as the other series?

This is a pathetic, and embarrassing attempt to reboot the series.

And let me ask you, do you get any benefit from adding extreme sarcasm to your statements? All this does for me is to only see the truly childish behavior you hinder yourself with, why not trying to act more like a civilized person and to handle this appropriately?

oh i know, man. saw a tentative release set for Fall 2012. eff that bean, i want em nooooowwwww. i figure a simple wash in a darker color scheme over some of the skin and definitely in the crevices of the wraps, pads and front and back shells would definitely improve the overall look.

also, i was thinking the way the feet are wrapped, one could make a diagonal cut foot swivel. kind like how sota toys did the street fighter feet i think so they can lay flat in wide stances. but i dunno, i like em as is already.

looked up the tape.... think i may get some to add onto iron fist or if i ever get around to making an ares.

Pretty much yeah. That's the exact impression you're giving, whether intentional or unintentional. You're borderline "Ruined Forever" territory.
I'm not lying or slandering, you're pretty over the top and extremely bent out of shape over a children's cartoon that hasn't even been made yet.

Apparently I do need a diagram, because I see absolutely no problems with what's going on. I dislike the fact that it's CG, which is an extremely limited medium. But as for using Shredder as Shredder, having the turtles be the turtles, and finding a way to make April a far more relevent addition to the group, seems extremely appropriate to me.

And again, how do you know the writing for this is going to be as pathetic and horrible as you proclaim? The show is not yet written. Unless you've been to the future, you know as little as we do about their plans. As we've seen are a few still shots

Rediculous overreactions by a grown man against children's programming that does not yet exist that he knows nothing about doesn't really merrit being taken that seriously.
Really. Seven posts and all you've done is bitch and whine about how horrible this show will be to the fandom.
Besides, what you interperate as sarcasm was intended more of as a joke to highlight the inherent humor in it all.
The only possible way you could know how pathetic this reboot is, is if you've already seen it.

Well i did some googling and it says here:
Ninja Pizza | Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles News & Information that the first wave of figures and vehicles are scheduled for August!!! YAY!!! And they have a $7-$9 pricetag!! Theres also mention of an SDCC exclusive figure!!
i was thinking the exact same about the inkwash....keep it simple,but effective!! If you look at the groupshot in the link i posted you can see the height/colour differences they have used to make each turtle individual,they could have cheaped out and just used the same body four times with four different heads,in four different colours but they didnt. Gotta pay respect for that attention to detail!!!

Yeah try the tape out let me know your thoughts,i had one of those "i wonder if" moments and it works pretty well!!!

yeaaaaaahhh that's something i really dig, like raph looks a bit stockier and donatello looks leaner. and that the leg wraps are all sculpted differently which is what tipped me off that they won't be using very many, if at all, reused parts. seems most of the other figures in the line won't get the same level of articulation but i'm really effing glad playmates did it with the turtles at the very least. prolly one of the reasons why i'm all for this line since they stepped up their game from previous iterations. not to also mention the homage to the original toy line with the extra weapon tray that you have to pop out. that makes me so happeh.