Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884893)

I might get pilloried for saying this, but the Rancor itself looks pretty fantastic. Reading some of the comments here and thinking back to the cinema presentation highlights a bit of a disconnect IMO. Maybe there's some fatigue setting in for high-ticket toys, which is completely understandable. However, on it own merits, this fig is exactly the approximation I would want were I an invested collector of the line. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Comedian (Post 884894)

Not at all. Some people think it looks good. I don?t like the head gap. The fact the ears don?t move with the face annoys me. I don?t like that rubber type skin, it doesn?t show details well and it?s long term survival is questionable at best. I?m not much of a fan of its colors either...I know it will change as it would get to production, but the grey model looked better to my eyes.

The fact I just looked and it?s down to 4888 from a high of around 5140 or so is shocking, this has lost almost 300 backers. The Star Wars team better come up with something quick here. Because this looks like it?s going to fail. I am beyond saddened for black series collectors right now.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884896)

The Rancor has ears and I care about them...because??? Jokes aside, we're all entitled to our takes and preferences on things. I'm an articulation over aesthetic collector; my eye isn't drawn to gaps as much as it is to unnatural (whatever natural is for the Rancor) postures and positioning of a figure, or form. I like posing options and this fig amply delivers in that aspect. The coloring also looks accurate (enough) to the source material given how dark that scene was, with the only key-light being an opening in the cave/pit above. Bottom line for me, as someone who was ecstatic as a child about owning a Rancor toy in 1983, this shit is pretty dope and better by a very large margin than that favorite toy of mine from yesteryear.

As with Galactus, I get the sense that some collectors are finding persnickety gripes to rule out an expense that is outside of their comfort zone. Which is fine, living beyond one's means isn't a smart course of action in any circumstance. But, for what it is, Hasbro did an excellent job here with the Rancor, barring a couple of tier stumbles.

Originally Posted by Comedian (Post 884894)

Not at all. Some people think it looks good. I don’t like the head gap. The fact the ears don’t move with the face annoys me. I don’t like that rubber type skin, it doesn’t show details well and it’s long term survival is questionable at best. I’m not much of a fan of its colors either...I know it will change as it would get to production, but the grey model looked better to my eyes.

The fact I just looked and it’s down to 4888 from a high of around 5140 or so is shocking, this has lost almost 300 backers. The Star Wars team better come up with something quick here. Because this looks like it’s going to fail. I am beyond saddened for black series collectors right now.

I saw this floating around. The rancor would still need work in my eyes, but those should have been the goals. This would have would well over 30,000.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8123e441_b.jpg57C0F464-148F-4639-98E3-418990EB5557 by Comedian Horseman, on Flickr

Originally Posted by Comedian (Post 884894)

Not at all. Some people think it looks good. I don?t like the head gap. The fact the ears don?t move with the face annoys me. I don?t like that rubber type skin, it doesn?t show details well and it?s long term survival is questionable at best. I?m not much of a fan of its colors either...I know it will change as it would get to production, but the grey model looked better to my eyes.

The fact I just looked and it?s down to 4888 from a high of around 5140 or so is shocking, this has lost almost 300 backers. The Star Wars team better come up with something quick here. Because this looks like it?s going to fail. I am beyond saddened for black series collectors right now.

I saw this floating around. The rancor would still need work in my eyes, but those should have been the goals. This would have would well over 30,000.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8123e441_b.jpg57C0F464-148F-4639-98E3-418990EB5557 by Comedian Horseman, on Flickr

Originally Posted by Nexodusrex (Post 884910)

dunno about Leia or the Skiff Guard. I would have used Oola, the Rancor Keeper, Luke and the Gammorean guard. Everybody who in the film was in the pit.

Originally Posted by Tony_Bacala (Post 884913)

I was thinking the guy on right was the one consoling the Rancor Handler at the end.

Originally Posted by metalalchemist (Post 884903)

I must disagree with a few guys here.
Not feeling sorry for the black series community at all. If this makes its 1st goal, will be proof to hasbro that they can absurdly overcharge whatever they sell... Even worse that they as a multi-billion company can be supported on a kickstarter basis (maybe not that steep, but you get the idea)

Originally Posted by Designincase (Post 884922)

In order to make any figure, they need money. In most cases the retailers pony up cash which get's production funded. The retailers order product in much larger quantities as well which helps to keep costs down.


Hasbro isn't selling these figures at a loss.

The "Kickstarter" Haslab is a glorified preorder where the production is low(so costs are high) and it's all made to order.

Consumers have always been funding production, just not so directly. We pay the stores that pay Hasbro.

Again until we see a full breakdown of the costs, saying "Greed" just because you don't like the price is ignorant. It's a business, they are out to make a profit and they aren't just going to break even.

That does not mean though you have to like what Hasbro is offering. That's really the heart of the matter is Hasbro for some people isn't delivering a product worth the price of admission.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884926)

The difference I take is when people nitpick the design of what is essentially toy-based brilliance and engineering marvel, when the real gripe is that it costs too much. Speak plainly; don't deflect via rationalization/intellectualization.
[...]
There are definitely things to complain about here. I, personally speaking, would just call those things for what they are instead of tear at what, IMO, is a solid effort from the perspective of composition.

Originally Posted by Raine24 (Post 884933)

However many sour grapes may be in the mix, it's not dissonance downplay to point out perceived shortcomings, and it's kind of gross to write off criticism and critique as being inappropriate. How can the likeness of a $20 figure be up for "legitimate" concern, but concerns with the likeness of a $350 one is expressly the domain of naysayers and people rationalizing for the sake of their wallets?

Isn't it generally understood to people at large that a higher price point commands higher standards?

And this is not meeting those. It's competent, it clearly gets the job done, but by no means is it a clever or ingenious application of engineering talent. This is pretty effectively your standard articulation options, albeit applied to a form bigger and less human than usual. The only thing that doesn't appear to be rote is the head, but that only means someone went out of their way to articulate head in a way that... looked less accurate? More ugly?

Originally Posted by Designincase (Post 884934)

------------
You look at Mythic Legions and you see them pushing their big figures further then Hasbro seems to be pushing this thing at $200. You see SOC pushing things further for their similar price point.

I'd say Hasbro's tiers need to be rethought in general. At the very least rearranged.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884938)

Well, we disagree and if it's gross to engage in conversation that avoids red herrings in an effort to get at the substance of a matter, then I guess I'm disgusting in that regard.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884938)

Although I'm not a regular Black Series patron, this Rancor hits the notes I would want. Outside of altered paint apps, I don't see where or how Hasbro could have made the fig look any more like the cinematic version.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884938)

As far as articulation and engineering are concerned, it's a big deal that this figure has between 10+ to 22+ more points of articulation than its smaller line-mate counterparts.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884938)

It's one thing to say this toy doesn't meet your translation standards. It's another to say that it's too pricey. Both are understandable perspectives, but to portray this as a poorly designed pedestrian effort is disingenuous.

Originally Posted by Raine24 (Post 884939)

I really, really, really don't want to do a wall of text here, but... ugh. We've talked before and been totally cool, so maybe we're just talking past each other right now?


This is what I mean, dude; there aren't any "red herrings" here, and the figure's sculpture is totally part of the substance of the figure. We're talking about the Rancor, in all its detail. The geometry of an object is not insubstantial.


It's genuinely cool that this would hit the sweet spot for you, but that doesn't mean that it not hitting the right notes for someone else means they're being disingenuous or incapable of recognizing material/production limitations, it can mean they're seeing something you don't, or simply being less generous in forgiving the alterations.

For example, I think the head is mounted backwards. If it were inverted, so the folds on the back of the head went over the neck, then it would appear to be a continuous piece from most angles, and preserve the relations of the face to the ears. With the whole "head peeking through foreskin" thing going on, every angle puts the part separation on display and reduces the accuracy & aesthetics.

There's a wall at the back of the mouth despite it being a separate jaw that would've eliminated undercut concerns there and allowed a throat to be present. The shoulders are too far apart. The shoulder pads should be part of the upper arm instead of the shoulder joint and could've been cast in a aggressive curve so that they'd naturally lay flush to the torso. The top of the head is the wrong shape. The pinky talon is supposed to be curved inward. The tail is too long/ thin.

You can go from the minuscule to the gross and find something off. It gets things wrong that every previous version of the rancor got right, including the '83 Kenner release. It could be better beyond the paint. Honestly.



It's really cool that they packed in so much articulation, but like 2/3rds of those points are in the hands. Granted, that's where you want them to be, and it's awesome they did that, but that's not nearly as impressive as if they were in load-bearing parts of the build. Again, it's awesome they did that. But it's less "how did they do that" and more "I didn't think they'd bother", you know?


I didn't say poorly designed, and I don't think anyone else did either. I said it was competent and described most of the articulation as rote, which I don't think is untrue. It's not as if they built an elaborate internal armature to articulate and support a silicone exterior skin with shifting internal panels to ensure a consistent volume...

They plugged in their standard pin and disc booleans, scaled up, and moved on. And that would be okay (it usually is!) and if this were any cheaper I don't think anyone would care. But much like a pleather seat in a luxury car, something nobody would think twice about suddenly becomes a deal breaker when they start charging premiums for it.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884950)

I wouldn't worry about a wall of text, these pages are unending and, after all, this type of conversation is the reason they exist. There's no text limit and Arkers can always make a choice not to read. I actually think it's exactly this sort of dialogue that is most valuable to manufactures, as it goes far beyond the 'this shit sux'; a largely empty statement devoid of actionable information.

I also wouldn't characterize this conversation as contentious given others I've been in here and disagreement rarely rises to - "we're not cool, now" - we're just hashing out our thoughts.

Your reasoning is perfectly sound, thanks for taking the time to express your ideas. I'd only add that I believe it'd require you to either make that or be involved on the planning side of development to see those great suggestions realized in a Rancor toy. Also, I'm not a toy-smith, but I sincerely believe what you're suggesting would cost even more to produce, even in a limited run like Haslab's.

Maybe were are talking past one another. My response to you previously (and now), similar to many of the dialogues featured on any of these threads, was part direct-line communication and partly an address of everything related that came before. Both generalized and specific, simultaneously. I don't attribute all of the comments made here to you, but when you describe a design choice as ugly, one that I can see working for others since it works for me, it leads me to associate that phrasing in a particular way, even if you didn't specifically express all of what I'm addressing. Conversely, I won't offer much of a defensive stance about the suggestion that I offhandedly dismissed valid criticisms despite my having said that there are things to complain about with this Haslab.

I did truly enjoy reading your thoughtful break down and think I'd like your Rancor as well. However, it does make me wonder how you would feel or respond if you put in all that work and thought and read thread-criticisms that suggested it was askew of a subjective mark, not worth the money, or a phoned in effort.

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel (Post 884953)

LOL

Is that a hint? ;)

Well, I've yet to encounter one outside the 5000 character limits on collective private messages...