Integration

Warthog76 · 10-19-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Yes but the Kate and Corsair they were planning were going to have many more removable and moving parts than 21st's 32X releases. If you have just an opening canopy, swing wings, and retractable landing gear on the Tomcat, it's nowhere near as many pieces as Fame Master's 4D 1/32 Tomcat.

Actually Admiral Toy's Kate and Corsair had the same detail level as 21st's 32X releases. I know because I actually held and studied them at a show...

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Yes but my point was, like the Tomcat, it's successors don't actually "succeed" it. It's not like the F-14 and F-15 replacing the Phantom or F/A-18 replacing the Corsair, the 3 "teen" fighters outdid their predecessors in many ways, but the same cannot be said with regards to the Tomcat and A-10 replacements.

I got your point, just adding mine....

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Oh believe me I know. I've been asking for a Tomcat since 2005 and before me there were other fans asking for it as well. At around the same time you saw guys beg for the Warthog and even one guy going on a hunger strike.

And we are getting an F-15 and an Su-27....don't get me wrong, I like the F-15 and Su-27, will buy one of each, and I'm happy to see that JSI is looking at producing them, but I don't recall alot of fan/collectors asking for these two like they did the A-10 or even the F-4 over the years. I know JSI is new to the 1/18 scale market and it can be argued that they didn't really know what 1/18 scale fans/collectors wanted, but now they do. If neither bbi, Admiral Toys, or some new manufacturer of 1/18 scale aircraft shows up within the next year with official plans to produce a 1/18 scale A-10 or F-4 and JSI chooses to produce another jet in front of these two, JSI is probably going to have a hard time getting fans to believe they are here to listen to them and produce the subjects they need and want in the 1/18 scale jet market.

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I personally think we are going to see a Warthog before a Phantom.

That would be great in my book but I want the F-4 fans to get their beloved aircraft too. They've been tossed around as much as collectors/fans wanting an A-10 have. From what I've seen, they are pretty much one in the same.

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It isn't a mute point. If JSI wasn't wondering about that and the competition, don't you guys think they would have just gotten 21st's original prototype, prepped it for mass production and released it already? According to the boys at 21st, the last I heard, the prototype was still intact, and that was made years ago. Yet we are getting the Tomcat 1st.

The problem here is that the prototype 21st Century has/had was way out dated and needed more work according to 21st Century. Also, that prototype is in the US, not in China. I doubt 21st would have just handed it over or even let on that it still existed to a company that was going to replace them. Especially if there is truth to what I heard about 21st's parting relationship with the factories in China. 21st Century had alot of ego that was well deserved in many ways, but it is also what I think led to their demise. Looking back now it seems funny to me that the A-10 was chosen to be protoyped by 21st way back when 1/18 scale was really just starting out. Before the F-16 and F-18 even appeared from bbi. To me that signals it's popularity and that it is viable for production. At that time manufacturers seemed to be a bit afraid of producing a subject in 1/18 scale that carried a price tag that approached $100 because they didn't believe there was a market out there at that price. They also had other roadblocks like brick and mortar store requirements. Next to where Admiral Toys seemed to be headed, JSI seems to be the new shining light in proving alot of those old theories and ways of thinking wrong...

Quote:

One thing that has to be known as well, is that it can't just be modern stuff that is made. We all want modern models but JSI has to make profit to fund these releases as well. Once the F-14 and F-15 are released, we'll have all of the "teen" fighters, well most of the regular ones that is. WWII stuff has always sold and been popular, this isn't just limited to models but is also seen in games. The F-86 and MIG-15 releases were good because the main rivals of the Korean Air War were knocked out within 1 year.

The nice thing here is that on another forum, a member has already had corresponance with a JSI rep and was told that their focus will be mainly on modern since there has been an abundance of WWII produced. Especially in the aircraft section. The F4F Wildcat and the P-39 Airacobra are the only two left that are fairly well known by many before you get into large twin engine aircraft. Those large twin engine aircraft I'm sure will cost way more to develope and produce than most modern jets that fans want. Just think about all the interior details that will that collectors will expect to be included.

Quote:

Amongst releases that fans want, what is left? From what I've observed through the years:

A-4 Skyhawk (True it has been brought up, but not one that has ranked high on the lists of collectors/fans over the years.)
F-5 Tiger (Rumor was out at one time about one, but the response was not very warm from fans/collectors.)
A-10 Warthog (Winner because it has appeared and continues to appear at the top of collector/fans lists in polls. Not to mention when the word jet in 1/18 is brought up by a manufacturer, everyone is asking for it.)
F-4 Phantom II (Winner because it has appeared and continues to appear at the top of collector/fans lists in polls. Kind of like the A-10, when the word jet in 1/18 is brought up by a manufacturer, everyone is asking for it.) )
P-51B Mustang (With the number of Mustangs that have been produced in 1/18 scale over the years, I think it may be a long time before JSI looks at doing a P-51 of any kind with their comments about WWII subjects.)
MIG-29 Fulcrum (Like the A-4, it's been mentioned but doesn't seem to get alot of attention from fans/collectors.)
AH-1 Cobra, reissue or more modernized variant (This would be nice, but with the slow sales of the previous Cobra release, who knows.)
MI-24 HIND (This is the A-10 of helicopters for 1/18 scale. However, you mentioned in an earlier post the problem with this one seen by manufacturers.)
F-22 Raptor (?....Haven't seen it mentioned much at all and the fact that it really has no history record other than movie appearances.)
F-105 Thunderchief (Falls in the same category as the A-4.)

Sure there are more aircraft that can be listed here but the above are the ones that I've noticed demand for.

My comments on each are from my observations and participation in polls over the last 5 to 6 years.

Quote:

The Phantom and Warthog were some of the 1st planes I brought up to JSI, and they have taken into account the demand for them.

It would be nice to know where they are looking and who they are listening too at this point. If they truely are looking and listening to the fans/collectors, then the A-10 and F-4 should be the next two subjects they produce for 1/18 scale jets. (After the F-15 and Su-27 if they don't shift what appear to be current release plans.) That is also unless another competitor actually makes an official announcement that they are making them. I guess we'll have to see how JSI is going to play the cards. Hopefully they will be in the collectors/fans favor.

Looking at the length of my last two posts, I think I may be enjoying this discussion a bit much.....

10-19-2009, 05:13 PM	#33
Warthog76 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 13	Quote: Yes but the Kate and Corsair they were planning were going to have many more removable and moving parts than 21st's 32X releases. If you have just an opening canopy, swing wings, and retractable landing gear on the Tomcat, it's nowhere near as many pieces as Fame Master's 4D 1/32 Tomcat. Actually Admiral Toy's Kate and Corsair had the same detail level as 21st's 32X releases. I know because I actually held and studied them at a show... Quote: Yes but my point was, like the Tomcat, it's successors don't actually "succeed" it. It's not like the F-14 and F-15 replacing the Phantom or F/A-18 replacing the Corsair, the 3 "teen" fighters outdid their predecessors in many ways, but the same cannot be said with regards to the Tomcat and A-10 replacements. I got your point, just adding mine.... Quote: Oh believe me I know. I've been asking for a Tomcat since 2005 and before me there were other fans asking for it as well. At around the same time you saw guys beg for the Warthog and even one guy going on a hunger strike. And we are getting an F-15 and an Su-27....don't get me wrong, I like the F-15 and Su-27, will buy one of each, and I'm happy to see that JSI is looking at producing them, but I don't recall alot of fan/collectors asking for these two like they did the A-10 or even the F-4 over the years. I know JSI is new to the 1/18 scale market and it can be argued that they didn't really know what 1/18 scale fans/collectors wanted, but now they do. If neither bbi, Admiral Toys, or some new manufacturer of 1/18 scale aircraft shows up within the next year with official plans to produce a 1/18 scale A-10 or F-4 and JSI chooses to produce another jet in front of these two, JSI is probably going to have a hard time getting fans to believe they are here to listen to them and produce the subjects they need and want in the 1/18 scale jet market. Quote: I personally think we are going to see a Warthog before a Phantom. That would be great in my book but I want the F-4 fans to get their beloved aircraft too. They've been tossed around as much as collectors/fans wanting an A-10 have. From what I've seen, they are pretty much one in the same. Quote: It isn't a mute point. If JSI wasn't wondering about that and the competition, don't you guys think they would have just gotten 21st's original prototype, prepped it for mass production and released it already? According to the boys at 21st, the last I heard, the prototype was still intact, and that was made years ago. Yet we are getting the Tomcat 1st. The problem here is that the prototype 21st Century has/had was way out dated and needed more work according to 21st Century. Also, that prototype is in the US, not in China. I doubt 21st would have just handed it over or even let on that it still existed to a company that was going to replace them. Especially if there is truth to what I heard about 21st's parting relationship with the factories in China. 21st Century had alot of ego that was well deserved in many ways, but it is also what I think led to their demise. Looking back now it seems funny to me that the A-10 was chosen to be protoyped by 21st way back when 1/18 scale was really just starting out. Before the F-16 and F-18 even appeared from bbi. To me that signals it's popularity and that it is viable for production. At that time manufacturers seemed to be a bit afraid of producing a subject in 1/18 scale that carried a price tag that approached $100 because they didn't believe there was a market out there at that price. They also had other roadblocks like brick and mortar store requirements. Next to where Admiral Toys seemed to be headed, JSI seems to be the new shining light in proving alot of those old theories and ways of thinking wrong... Quote: One thing that has to be known as well, is that it can't just be modern stuff that is made. We all want modern models but JSI has to make profit to fund these releases as well. Once the F-14 and F-15 are released, we'll have all of the "teen" fighters, well most of the regular ones that is. WWII stuff has always sold and been popular, this isn't just limited to models but is also seen in games. The F-86 and MIG-15 releases were good because the main rivals of the Korean Air War were knocked out within 1 year. The nice thing here is that on another forum, a member has already had corresponance with a JSI rep and was told that their focus will be mainly on modern since there has been an abundance of WWII produced. Especially in the aircraft section. The F4F Wildcat and the P-39 Airacobra are the only two left that are fairly well known by many before you get into large twin engine aircraft. Those large twin engine aircraft I'm sure will cost way more to develope and produce than most modern jets that fans want. Just think about all the interior details that will that collectors will expect to be included. Quote: Amongst releases that fans want, what is left? From what I've observed through the years: A-4 Skyhawk (True it has been brought up, but not one that has ranked high on the lists of collectors/fans over the years.) F-5 Tiger (Rumor was out at one time about one, but the response was not very warm from fans/collectors.) A-10 Warthog (Winner because it has appeared and continues to appear at the top of collector/fans lists in polls. Not to mention when the word jet in 1/18 is brought up by a manufacturer, everyone is asking for it.) F-4 Phantom II (Winner because it has appeared and continues to appear at the top of collector/fans lists in polls. Kind of like the A-10, when the word jet in 1/18 is brought up by a manufacturer, everyone is asking for it.) ) P-51B Mustang (With the number of Mustangs that have been produced in 1/18 scale over the years, I think it may be a long time before JSI looks at doing a P-51 of any kind with their comments about WWII subjects.) MIG-29 Fulcrum (Like the A-4, it's been mentioned but doesn't seem to get alot of attention from fans/collectors.) AH-1 Cobra, reissue or more modernized variant (This would be nice, but with the slow sales of the previous Cobra release, who knows.) MI-24 HIND (This is the A-10 of helicopters for 1/18 scale. However, you mentioned in an earlier post the problem with this one seen by manufacturers.) F-22 Raptor (?....Haven't seen it mentioned much at all and the fact that it really has no history record other than movie appearances.) F-105 Thunderchief (Falls in the same category as the A-4.) Sure there are more aircraft that can be listed here but the above are the ones that I've noticed demand for. My comments on each are from my observations and participation in polls over the last 5 to 6 years. Quote: The Phantom and Warthog were some of the 1st planes I brought up to JSI, and they have taken into account the demand for them. It would be nice to know where they are looking and who they are listening too at this point. If they truely are looking and listening to the fans/collectors, then the A-10 and F-4 should be the next two subjects they produce for 1/18 scale jets. (After the F-15 and Su-27 if they don't shift what appear to be current release plans.) That is also unless another competitor actually makes an official announcement that they are making them. I guess we'll have to see how JSI is going to play the cards. Hopefully they will be in the collectors/fans favor. Looking at the length of my last two posts, I think I may be enjoying this discussion a bit much.....