Integration

Madame Warlock · 11-05-2015, 05:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Lionheart

Nothing to do with there being fewer female toy collectors? There are barely any threads 'like this' on these boards - and nor have there ever been. But well done for just making something shamey up and pretending it's true.

Oh, piss off. Why do you think there aren't more women in the hobby in the first place?

Yeah, absolutely nothing to do with the sexist fuckboys that put down anything women have to say that isn't "I'm totally not like other women! I'm CONVENIENT for male geeks!"

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I understand perfectly what all the words I use mean.

No you don't. And stop mocking words that marginalised people use to discuss their experiences. Experiences you don't and will likely never understand.

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'Machismo grandstanding'? Is this going to be a case of 'My bigotry is ok but yours is problematic?' methinks it is...

What bigotry?

Are you seriously suggesting having a problem with sexist assholes in an overly male-dominated hobby is somehow oppressive?

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And I know exactly what 'toxic masculinity' means. Just because feminists have decided it exists doesn't mean it does.

Just because you've decided it doesn't, doesn't mean it doesn't.

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It's a theory - not a fact. Individuals can be toxic, but masculinity - just like femininity - is not inherently toxic. Go back to your gender studies course and come back when you've spent a few years away from the echo chamber.

Toxic masculinity is inherently toxic. You've just shown you don't understand the concept at all. Toxic masculinity is a particular performance/standard of masculinity that focuses on aggressive, violent, or insensentive behaviour. Again, it goes hand in hand with the concept of Machismo, which is why I used that word. Are you going to pretend tht dudes don't have a problem with Machismo?

You could argue there are forms of toxic femininity, too, but that's a whole other thing to get into. Toxic masculinity is what starts wars and breeds violence, so generally, it's the bigger issue here.

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Said every SJW ever about every place that people were allowed to disagree with them with impunity.

People who use the term SJW unironically need their fingers sewn together. For all your bitching about shutting down arguments/censorship, it's a word used almost exclusively to shut down critical thought and silence people.

Do you have any idea what it's like being a geek girl, a minority, queer or trans in a cis het white guy fedorafest? Good chance you don't. Most people using your argument certainly don't.

What people like you do isn't "disagremeent". You're unable to deal with this subject without putting on a deeply condescending and nasty tone to anyone that disagrees with you. Do you think I had a problem if this was a mature discussion where you accepted people's points and gave them intelligent rebuttals?

No. I have a problem with assholes like you like who double down on groups that have only recently gotten a foothold in your little boys club. You pretend like your "SJW" bogeymen are the fascists when really it's you, being a status quo champion.

Very often it's not really a thing you can rationally disagree on, which is why you're so quick to sink to that. It's based on you denying and rejecting other people's experiences.

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What constitutes a safe space to an SJW is somewhere they get to state their opinions as facts, and people are banned from disagreeing.

I've been banned from dozens of forums for being outspoken. I know what it's like to be villified and silenced. And it's not just for sharing my opinion - it's for being my fucking self, unapologetically. Willing to bet you rarely ever get banned from anywhere. You're not persecuted. You're just an asshole.

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The fact is, there has been disagreement and discussion on this thread, and yet you still say it is a place where a 'lot of people are afraid to speak out' (a lot?) and it shows just how blinkered you're being.

No, the fact is that you're incapable of stopping yourself from acting like a child around a serious subject that matters to a lot of people.

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SJW's bully the exact same way. The difference is one group says everyone should be able to speak, and the other says nobody who disagrees with them should be able to speak... or it's 'bullying'.

Bullying is entirely about a power dynamic. I don't know if you've noticed, but straight whit cis dudes hold most of the power in English speaking countries(and debatedly the world to an extent), and certainly within geek communities like this, overwhelmingly so.

You're acting like you're being bullied into silence, but I remember boards like this 5-6 years ago. And you were doing exactly that. And not because what people were saying was oppressive or hurtful, but because, like now, you didn't like being challenged. You only like "freedom of discussion" when it's on your terms and you know you have support.

You're not some sort of freedom fighter. You probably don't know what it's like to take a serious stance for your rights. Again, you're an asshole.

You're shitting on women and minority groups. That's all you're doing. You're dressing it up in fancier language, but again, you're shitting on people who are actually persecuted and then playing the victim. You're pathetic.

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Arguments are being addressed. If all you want is agreement then you aren't asking for people to 'deal with arguments'.

Being a snarky shit isn't the same thing as addressing an argument.

If you want a real argument, then leave bullshit slurs like "Social justice warrior" at the door. Again, they only exist to shame people into silence, or to get a rise out of people. You don't use terminology like that if you're looking for a real discussion.

Terminology like toxic masculinity etc. is actual critical theory, which is different. You can talk about it. You can't talk about "Social Justice Warriors" because it's a bogeyman, and not really relevant to talking about depictions of female sexuality.

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You are the first person to drop to the level you claim people are already at. YOU.

No, I'm really not. I can't imagine how selective your reading is to think that. Privilege really does come with blinders.

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Your entire post translates to: "Everyone needs to agree with my side of a discussion or you're all hateful monsters who bully into silence, and anyone that posts disagreeing with my biased assessment is just proving me right".

Nice logic (or lack of). Nice and self-serving.

The fact that you reduce all critical arguments to that only proves you don't have a place in an argument like this. All arguments are about one side trying to convince the other of their position, or onlookers. Trying to make a case. It's not mean to be a mere exchange of your opinion, and either way, your opinions are shit and you're spending more time shitting on people than expressing them. Sometimes opinions can be bad or harmful and there's nothing wrong with calling people out on that.

11-05-2015, 05:03 PM	#82
Madame Warlock Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Ireland Posts: 853	Quote: Originally Posted by Lionheart Nothing to do with there being fewer female toy collectors? There are barely any threads 'like this' on these boards - and nor have there ever been. But well done for just making something shamey up and pretending it's true. Oh, piss off. Why do you think there aren't more women in the hobby in the first place? Yeah, absolutely nothing to do with the sexist fuckboys that put down anything women have to say that isn't "I'm totally not like other women! I'm CONVENIENT for male geeks!" Quote: I understand perfectly what all the words I use mean. No you don't. And stop mocking words that marginalised people use to discuss their experiences. Experiences you don't and will likely never understand. Quote: 'Machismo grandstanding'? Is this going to be a case of 'My bigotry is ok but yours is problematic?' methinks it is... What bigotry? Are you seriously suggesting having a problem with sexist assholes in an overly male-dominated hobby is somehow oppressive? Quote: And I know exactly what 'toxic masculinity' means. Just because feminists have decided it exists doesn't mean it does. Just because you've decided it doesn't, doesn't mean it doesn't. Quote: It's a theory - not a fact. Individuals can be toxic, but masculinity - just like femininity - is not inherently toxic. Go back to your gender studies course and come back when you've spent a few years away from the echo chamber. Toxic masculinity is inherently toxic. You've just shown you don't understand the concept at all. Toxic masculinity is a particular performance/standard of masculinity that focuses on aggressive, violent, or insensentive behaviour. Again, it goes hand in hand with the concept of Machismo, which is why I used that word. Are you going to pretend tht dudes don't have a problem with Machismo? You could argue there are forms of toxic femininity, too, but that's a whole other thing to get into. Toxic masculinity is what starts wars and breeds violence, so generally, it's the bigger issue here. Quote: Said every SJW ever about every place that people were allowed to disagree with them with impunity. People who use the term SJW unironically need their fingers sewn together. For all your bitching about shutting down arguments/censorship, it's a word used almost exclusively to shut down critical thought and silence people. Do you have any idea what it's like being a geek girl, a minority, queer or trans in a cis het white guy fedorafest? Good chance you don't. Most people using your argument certainly don't. What people like you do isn't "disagremeent". You're unable to deal with this subject without putting on a deeply condescending and nasty tone to anyone that disagrees with you. Do you think I had a problem if this was a mature discussion where you accepted people's points and gave them intelligent rebuttals? No. I have a problem with assholes like you like who double down on groups that have only recently gotten a foothold in your little boys club. You pretend like your "SJW" bogeymen are the fascists when really it's you, being a status quo champion. Very often it's not really a thing you can rationally disagree on, which is why you're so quick to sink to that. It's based on you denying and rejecting other people's experiences. Quote: What constitutes a safe space to an SJW is somewhere they get to state their opinions as facts, and people are banned from disagreeing. I've been banned from dozens of forums for being outspoken. I know what it's like to be villified and silenced. And it's not just for sharing my opinion - it's for being my fucking self, unapologetically. Willing to bet you rarely ever get banned from anywhere. You're not persecuted. You're just an asshole. Quote: The fact is, there has been disagreement and discussion on this thread, and yet you still say it is a place where a 'lot of people are afraid to speak out' (a lot?) and it shows just how blinkered you're being. No, the fact is that you're incapable of stopping yourself from acting like a child around a serious subject that matters to a lot of people. Quote: SJW's bully the exact same way. The difference is one group says everyone should be able to speak, and the other says nobody who disagrees with them should be able to speak... or it's 'bullying'. Bullying is entirely about a power dynamic. I don't know if you've noticed, but straight whit cis dudes hold most of the power in English speaking countries(and debatedly the world to an extent), and certainly within geek communities like this, overwhelmingly so. You're acting like you're being bullied into silence, but I remember boards like this 5-6 years ago. And you were doing exactly that. And not because what people were saying was oppressive or hurtful, but because, like now, you didn't like being challenged. You only like "freedom of discussion" when it's on your terms and you know you have support. You're not some sort of freedom fighter. You probably don't know what it's like to take a serious stance for your rights. Again, you're an asshole. You're shitting on women and minority groups. That's all you're doing. You're dressing it up in fancier language, but again, you're shitting on people who are actually persecuted and then playing the victim. You're pathetic. Quote: Arguments are being addressed. If all you want is agreement then you aren't asking for people to 'deal with arguments'. Being a snarky shit isn't the same thing as addressing an argument. If you want a real argument, then leave bullshit slurs like "Social justice warrior" at the door. Again, they only exist to shame people into silence, or to get a rise out of people. You don't use terminology like that if you're looking for a real discussion. Terminology like toxic masculinity etc. is actual critical theory, which is different. You can talk about it. You can't talk about "Social Justice Warriors" because it's a bogeyman, and not really relevant to talking about depictions of female sexuality. Quote: You are the first person to drop to the level you claim people are already at. YOU. No, I'm really not. I can't imagine how selective your reading is to think that. Privilege really does come with blinders. Quote: Your entire post translates to: "Everyone needs to agree with my side of a discussion or you're all hateful monsters who bully into silence, and anyone that posts disagreeing with my biased assessment is just proving me right". Nice logic (or lack of). Nice and self-serving. The fact that you reduce all critical arguments to that only proves you don't have a place in an argument like this. All arguments are about one side trying to convince the other of their position, or onlookers. Trying to make a case. It's not mean to be a mere exchange of your opinion, and either way, your opinions are shit and you're spending more time shitting on people than expressing them. Sometimes opinions can be bad or harmful and there's nothing wrong with calling people out on that. __________________ Looking for: JLU Big Barda. YJ Martian Manhunter & Miss Martin. Drop me a PM!