[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

@En Sabah

I hear you. However, my earliest memories of Warlock were the multiple times he was handed his ass by the likes of Thor and others. When he was still 'Him,' he had a run as a confused villain and suffered a few embarrassing loses. It wasn't until Starlin wrote for him, that he became a more serious character. He received an additional boost with the soul gem, but still, he never really became a 'power' through the force of his own agency. A schemer? A tactical cosmic agent? Sure. Shortly after his rebirth (one which featured him seeming to be more personally vested with raw power than any previous incarnation), he was getting clowned by Vulcan. He had to run from him. The same Vulcan that Black Bolt (also not a god) brought to the brink of death. I know Starlin has written stories that lend to Warlock being more substantial, but I believe that has more to do with Starlin's attachment to a character he helped redirect. The same could be said for Thanos, but I at least give him the benefit of being a Titan (cousins to the Eternals who were engineered by the Celestials to be demi-gods...in my book, Celestial science trumps Earthen hacks)...and Thanos had been re-incarnated by Death as significantly stronger than he'd previously enjoyed. The only time I would consider Warlock to be a bona fide god, was after he acquired the Infinity Gauntlet. But otherwise...Powerful? Of course. A god? Nah, not in my opinion.

For what it's worth the Vulcan fight can be explained as Adam still getting the hang of things since his rebirth. Also I love that you just said "Earthen hacks." I know Thanos always goes on about Adam's power and equality but you definitely have a point that Starlin is the only one who actually makes Adam that powerful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

Ultron was only a cosmic threat because he linked up with, and dominated a very potent offshoot of the Technarchy. However,the forms he took over were not Technarchy proper (like Magus, Warlock, and Tyro), they were the things they leave behind. Almost like highly proficient drones. I'm not sure how impressive that is on a cosmic scale and I doubt they would have been a threat had the Kree not been reeling from Annihilus's wave. The only way they were able to gain purchase was through subterfuge. I love Ultron, but he's only ever been a planetary threat, not cosmic or universal. Badass for Earth, but once you get out of the pond and enter the ocean of the cosmos...he becomes pedestrian.

The Ultimates Universe...I'm not gonna create many fans with this comment, but none of what happens in that universe matters. There's a reason why an impermeable membrane exists between 616 and 1610. The Ultimates Universe is much like Marvel Adventures to me...I don't have to pay them any mind. If my sentiment is not similar to how Marvel as a publisher considers the matter, then why go through the bother to bring Miles into 616? They brought him from limbo into the main continuum and NOW his exploits will be 'real.' Nick Fury's Samuel Jackson and that's great....but we all know who the real Nick is. Just as we know what the real MU is...I'm sure many won't see eye to eye with much of this, but this is how I see it.

Edit:....and where is this impression coming from that Wonder Man is 'class 100?' I remember the Updated Marvel Universe listing him as being able to press 90 tons making him stronger than the likes of the Thing and Colossus (although both have received boosts to 'class 100' now), but well beneath Thor/Beta-Ray/Hulk/Herc/Namor(in water)/etc. Was there some event that changed this? Even his conversion to full Ionic left him short of Count Nefaria. Hell, he used to always fear for his life when fighting formidable foes like Ultron...Did I miss something? If so, tell me so I can check it out for my own edification.

I guess when I used cosmic referring to Ultron I really just meant space/stuff beyond Earth, not like he can screw with reality. He is indeed awesome anyway. The age of Ultron did technically happen and time travel was the only solution (story-wise that book was a mess).

I have no love for the Ultimate universe, some real dumb shit went down in there.

Yeah even I'm not really sure when Wonder Man became so supposedly powerful. Like in the Revengers he made a chump out of Ms. Marvel and one time he easily subdued Red Hulk but in general other characters say stuff like "he's as strong as Sentry" but yeah the actual proof isn't substantive.