[TheBlueMarvel]

I knew going into this that a dialogue was going to be challenging because there seem to be a wide variety of discrepancies in our views and experiences. Generally I prefer not to respond this way because it's forces the conversation into myopic concepts making any larger understandings and connections more difficult. However, when in Rome...maybe it's easier to understand things in bitesize helpings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Yeah, how dare people expect to be paid a livable wage!

Wait, are you saying it's okay for Chinese children to not be paid livable wages for the work they do in Hasbro's factories?

If you truly believe in the liberal argument regarding a 'living wage', beyond its seeming use in this case as a largely empty rhetorical declaration, then you actively think about how that plays out in real-time and seek logical next steps for making this a reality.

This world is becoming more competitive by the minute and thinking that you can raise a family and buy a home while working a low-skill job is complete and utter folly. I am a huge proponent of a 'living wage', as I tink it's criminal for people to work full-time and still fall below the poverty line. But I also acknowledge that "living" is highly subjective and most "live" beyond their means. If someone wants to improve their income/career options, then they need to either seek training, education, or secure a great deal of hands on experience in order to increase the value of the work they perform. Unfortunately, many people aren't willing to put in that effort, or they lack access in some capacity.

Let's use substitute teaching as an operative example. The average teacher in NYC makes $54K, a laughably low amount in my estimation, given the fact that becoming a sound teacher requires a least a master's degree in education following a bachelor's. Most substitute teachers in NYC who don't have advanced degrees get $12/hr. Should those individuals get an hourly rate of $25-$26/hr equivalent to that of a master's level teacher who has put in time and has more training/skill? No, that isn't equitable. The solution isn't to start paying low-skill wage earners at high-skill rates just because you think it's right based on the fickle trends of populism. The solution IMO is to make education, training and apprenticeship more readily available to the masses, so that people can continue to achieve personal milestones and increase their skillsets. If we do it the other way, Marvel Legends and Whoppers will be $100 and $45 respectively, which is just stupid.

The work being done to create the figs we enjoy does not require complex skills, and, quite frankly, it might be better left to automation, especially considering the chronic health ailments of people that work on assembly/production lines long-term.

About your...I'm sorry...simply absurd comment about children being paid livable wages...LOL WTF?...I think children should be in school learning, NOT being used as child labor in any capacity anywhere. Are you ok with Chinese (or any nation's) children making your anything??? Which brings up another point: Chinese laborers need to fight for their labor related rights as the labor movement did here in the states via unionizing - a task made more difficult by living in an authoritarian nation, for sure. However, when that happens (it's actually already happening) expect to be paying more for everything. This is the natural cost of equity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Clearly it's not cheap to produce if Hasbro has to raise the price of their figures TWICE in a six month period.

There seems to be a hiccup in comprehension here. I was refencing the cost to the consumer being cheap, not the cost of construction to Hasbro. The reason why low ticket items ($10, $20, $30 etc) are shipped abroad for construction is because no one here is going to accept the low pay needed to turn a profit at the point of sale. It is for this reason that some of the only manufacturing left here in the states is that which involves the construction a $12,000-$60,000 automobile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Wrong, well, you're not wrong, but you are wrong, if that makes sense. You only think it will be that because that is what people have been programmed to think. People have been taught to expect domestically produced goods will be higher so they allow companies to get away with doing such. If the consumer actually held companies accountable, they wouldn't get away with it. Maybe it's time we stop allowing CEOs to make millions upon millions of dollars by exploiting coustomers? We force companies to put a salary cap on their owners like they do to their lowest ranked employees. We force companies to meet us halfway instead of us having to go the full length. You want our money, you've got to earn it.

And I'm not just referring to Hasbro, but ALL companies be it in the toy industry, the medical industry (like the bullshit for EMS), movie one, video game one, etc.

Also, by having factories in the US, they could take better care of quality control because the employees will care about the quality of the products they produce since they are being paid right.

Again, I apologize, but, no, what you are saying doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm far from programmed and I know that there are REAL costs attributed to manufacturing. It is not something they are making up to trick you, dude. Yes, CEOs do get overly exorbitant salaries and I agree that most could use a significant haircut. However, if you don't understand the process and cost of manufacturing, then, the only thing I can tell you is do some research and review American history, as the info is out there. You generally want to gain an understanding of things before you simply pick an ideological viewpoint and start spouting off stuff.

About the healthcare industry and other things you are lumping in here, which also have their own individual problems and nuances, just as above, I think you'd be better served trying to understand the dynamics at play with some sort of sophistication before just randomly throwing stuff out there. The fact of the matter is I agree with much of what I think - you think - you are touching on, but the way you are presenting it has many gaps and feels very superficial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archangel

Just look at the cocoa and chocolate harvesting process. I watched that on some Netflix show and was shocked and how that works. It made me feel pretty shitty about eating chocolate.

I hear you. I believe you said you work in produce-retail, so I assume you have some sense of the market dynamics revolving around the trail of produce from the farm to the plate. We rely heavily on migrant workers from South America to harvest our crops, keep America fed, and keep prices manageable for families. That particular eco-system and how it dovetails with the politics revolving around undocumented immigrants is one of particular frustration to me. When people disparage immigrant and, more severely, undocumented populations I always wonder how much they know about the food on their damn plate...