[Starlord67]

In my mind...Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are Magnetos kids...and are both MUTANTS! THATS IT! Nothing is gonna change that in my mind. IT WAS SO WELL SET UP and was an awesome reveal in Avengers and X-men. Some douche writer is not taking that from me!!

I stopped reading comics at the end of House of M so in my mind, Wanda could have just as easily said the world is over.

[Veronica Mars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starlord67

In my mind...Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are Magnetos kids...and are both MUTANTS! THATS IT! Nothing is gonna change that in my mind. IT WAS SO WELL SET UP and was an awesome reveal in Avengers and X-men. Some douche writer is not taking that from me!!

I stopped reading comics at the end of House of M so in my mind, Wanda could have just as easily said the world is over.

Retconning their mutantness might have been one the last things Bendis did before jumping ship, I know it happened shortly after Age of Ultron was released

[Starlord67]

Bendis is a douche bag straight up. I despise him and his writing!!

Im not bitter...

[Veronica Mars]

You will get no argument here. I'm glad he's moved on to destroying DC

[StuartGreen2019]

Ah, yes, I remember hearing of Marvel retconning Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver to no longer be mutants and Magneto's children, back in the day when Fox and Marvel were feuding during 'Age of Ultron'/'Days of Future Past' and Marvel kept trying to replace the X-Men with the Inhumans as the next big thing. I'm glad at least those days are over. And having read what Dan Slott did with Spider-Man, I'm glad I didn't buy any of those issues. I also hate Bendis' current work on Superman. I can't believe he's still writing that, since I miss the Tomasi/Gleason run so badly.

[Veronica Mars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuartGreen2019

Ah, yes, I remember hearing of Marvel retconning Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver to no longer be mutants and Magneto's children, back in the day when Fox and Marvel were feuding during 'Age of Ultron'/'Days of Future Past' and Marvel kept trying to replace the X-Men with the Inhumans as the next big thing. I'm glad at least those days are over. And having read what Dan Slott did with Spider-Man, I'm glad I didn't buy any of those issues. I also hate Bendis' current work on Superman. I can't believe he's still writing that, since I miss the Tomasi/Gleason run so badly.

The only Spidey books I read don't have Spidey in them, I read Black Cat, Mary Jane and the Gwen Stacy limited series

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Seven

Sweet Jesus, I hate the direction they’ve taken the X-Men.

I've hated the direction they've taken X-Men since the late 90s. I tried reading an Uncanny book a few years ago that had White Queen wearing black, Cyclops in a red and black suit, Magik (who is wanted by Dormmamu), Magneto in white and working for Shield, and a bunch of n00bs and I couldn't get into it at all. Not just because the story seemed extremely convoluted despite being Volumes 1 and 2, but they just weren't all that interesting and the artwork was all over the place. I loved the idea of Magik being a main member of the team, but I felt like I jumped into like issue 97 rather than 1.

I also don't get the praises people have for Bendis. I haven't read a single thing from him I liked.

Anyway, back to the discusssion about rivarly 2 packs, I guess my picks would be:

Romita Colored Spider-Man vs Romita Jr Hobgoblin
Captain America in light blue vs Silver Age Red Skull
Iron Man (80th repaint) vs Mandarin
Agent 13 vs Modok
Professor X in wheel chair vs Magneto (using AoA Morph's cape)
Lilandra vs Lady Deathbird

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veronica Mars

Retconning their mutantness might have been one the last things Bendis did before jumping ship, I know it happened shortly after Age of Ultron was released

Sadly we can't pin the blame for Wanda and Pietro losing their mutant-status on Bendis, it was just Marvel editorial pushing the change because in the MCU they couldn't be mutants. For Wanda I feel like it wasn't as big of a deal since she's an Avenger first and foremost but Quicksilver was so attached to mutants and being Magneto's son that it puts him in an awkward position (especially looking back at alternate realities like AoA where he is defined by that father-son relation). Them ever being Magneto's kids was itself a retcon but it landed well and had been the accepted story for over twenty years so it was jarring to see that undone.

Focusing on Wanda though, she has been through some shit. First, and most infamous, Disassembled and House of M cranked up her instability as an excuse to turn her into a plot-bomb instead of a character. Then she disappeared for a while. Then Heinberg began damage control and brought her back with the Children's Crusade, it wasn't the cleanest resurrection but obvious effort was made to salvage the character and account for M-Day. So she was set on the path of the repentant hero and joined the first Avengers Unity Division to start making right. Then, in AXIS, came the whole retcon-retcon that Magneto is not the twins' father. We are later told by High Evolutionary that he's responsible for their powers, I actually thought this wasn't the worst way to handle the non-mutant situation since he already had ties to them. But then Marvel either approved or dictated yet another origin retcon, in her solo book it was revealed that her actual mother was also a "Scarlet Witch" and apparently this is a mantle to be passed down, so the people originally thought to be the twins' parents are once again not their parents.

Scarlet Witch has always been one of my favorites and convoluted backgrounds aren't uncommon in the superhero genre but damn this gets frustrating to try and keep up with.

[webz]

I bought several of the CD sets of X-Men, Spider-Man, etc that came out 20 or so years ago. Covers 60's-2000 I believe. I've read many of those, but I haven't read anything more current than 2001. Even on the CDRoms, I rarely dip into the 90's issues. Comics were so much more enjoyable in the earlier years. Far less of a soap opera. On top of that, the art from the early comics are a thousand times better than the art of today. Heroes had muscle, but they weren't roided up skinless freaks. Female heroes were beautiful but not pornstars.

I know this makes me sound like a grouchy old man, but it's true for me. I find the vintage comics to be actual artforms compared to the gaudy "gotta appeal to collectors" aspect of today's tabloid-like comics stories.

Hasbro should make more of the vintage-look Kirby & Ditko figures. I think those would be insanely popular.

[lordbest]

The "got to appeal to collectors" attitude started in the 80s and caused a bubble that contributed to the near-death of Marvel in the 90s.

[Ultra Seven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veronica Mars

Yeah, there are individual books I'm enjoying but the overall storyline feels completely opposite of what the X-Men were supposed to represent

There are isolated concepts and stories that work for me, but the overall tone is so far outside of what the team’s always been. Especially Cyclops, who’s gone from the idealist leader of the X-Men to... kind of a fascist. It’s frustrating how they’ve picked on particular favorite characters of mine, with new ideas that are either disconcertingly weird (Cyclops, Jean Grey, and Wolverine being in a polyamorous relationship) or insultingly dumb (Kitty Pryde isn’t actually a mutant, really man?). What happened to Xavier’s dream, guys? Living alongside man, not declaring yourselves a sovereign state and acting like invaders in a fifties A.I.P. monster film?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

I've hated the direction they've taken X-Men since the late 90s. I tried reading an Uncanny book a few years ago that had White Queen wearing black, Cyclops in a red and black suit, Magik (who is wanted by Dormmamu), Magneto in white and working for Shield, and a bunch of n00bs and I couldn't get into it at all. Not just because the story seemed extremely convoluted despite being Volumes 1 and 2, but they just weren't all that interesting and the artwork was all over the place. I loved the idea of Magik being a main member of the team, but I felt like I jumped into like issue 97 rather than 1.

I’m in approximately the same boat. There has been some great stuff in the last twenty years, but the art and writing overall haven’t been my speed (hell, I’m not even too fond of the nineties era). Whedon’s take, as well as Morrison’s, at least presented some cool new ideas and characters. I do agree that the stories have gotten far too convoluted. Marvel seems intent on reinventing each character every couple of years to revitalize sales (which, to their credit, usually works). The problem being, it gets hard to follow fast. They lost me around the time the first class got turned into teenagers.

[Harbinger]

^All of this is why i quit reading comics years upon years ago. I kinda gave up after aoa when everything turned into this goofy, gangly, impreportionate anime-ish gobblety-gook that just destroyed any aesthetic enjoyment. Then every few years it seemed like everything got this giant, universe spanning, retconning crossover. Plus over half the books are ads and the prices just got ricockulousLy high.

[Captain Nash]

I'm going to jump in on the comic talk and say that while there has been some good stuff past this, classic-feeling Avengers stories ended when Kurt Busiek's Avengers run was over (2003 I think?) and classic feeling X-Men stories ended with Eve Of Destruction (2001). Granted both family of books have had some really good runs or stories since, but not quite the same classic feeling.

[Ultra Seven]

^
Nail on the head, thanks, Nash. I think that’s the issue I (and other people) have encountered, the stories don’t feel the same. As an aside, does anyone think we’ll actually see anything at that Hasbro thingy in Hong Kong later this week?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

^All of this is why i quit reading comics years upon years ago. I kinda gave up after aoa when everything turned into this goofy, gangly, impreportionate anime-ish gobblety-gook that just destroyed any aesthetic enjoyment. Then every few years it seemed like everything got this giant, universe spanning, retconning crossover. Plus over half the books are ads and the prices just got ricockulousLy high.

My rationale is always “why pay four dollars for a new book that’ll disappoint me when I can pay four dollars for a kickass bronze age book from the bins?” The huge “change everything” crossover every six months is annoying, but they sell well (for some reason). They also make leafing through an isolated issue a continuity nightmare (my frequent conversation with my LCS owner is “that happened?... when?”). Also gotta agree on AOA, that story is well and truly not my bag.

[Super Joe]

edited

[Ultra Seven]

First Appearance Sentinel would be neat. As well as a neo-classic one from the late seventies. It would be cool to have a first appearance, classic, and modern Sentinel standing together on a shelf.

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

^All of this is why i quit reading comics years upon years ago. I kinda gave up after aoa when everything turned into this goofy, gangly, impreportionate anime-ish gobblety-gook that just destroyed any aesthetic enjoyment. Then every few years it seemed like everything got this giant, universe spanning, retconning crossover. Plus over half the books are ads and the prices just got ricockulousLy high.

I consider Age of Apocalypse to be the series finale storyline for X-Men. It's just one giant cycle. Birth of the X-Men to Uncanny to the different teams to the time traveling hijinks that causes the death of Prof X to Age of Apocalypse back to the Birth of the X-Men, and so on.

Personally, there is a reason I've been sticking to the omnibuses that collect Silver Age and Bronze Age comics for the most part (for both Marvel and DC). I just don't like the direction modern comics have headed for most of their characters. Spider-Man is really the only character I plan to buy every Omnibus to if it collects The Amazing series within it. Hence why I have the Clone Saga books (which were every bit as terrible as they reptutation proceeded, but now I need the two Ben Reily Omnis to finish the arc), the two JMS books (though to be fair, I really did enjoy JMS' run until the Civil War stuff and Back in Black happened), and I really loved the first Spider-Verse series even though Marvel didn't put the issues in their proper order so I had to constantly flip back and forth through the book to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Seven

My rationale is always “why pay four dollars for a new book that’ll disappoint me when I can pay four dollars for a kickass bronze age book from the bins?” The huge “change everything” crossover every six months is annoying, but they sell well (for some reason). They also make leafing through an isolated issue a continuity nightmare (my frequent conversation with my LCS owner is “that happened?... when?”). Also gotta agree on AOA, that story is well and truly not my bag.

For me, I stopped buying inidividual comics because it came to, "Why am I spending $3-4 on a single issue that leads into the next when I can just buy the whole arc in a single trade paperback for $15?" And then I got into Omnibuses and it became, "I can spend $3-4 on a single issue or I can spend $45-80 on a larger, hard cover collection that covers anywhere from 30-55 issues."

BTW, thinking of putting up on ebay my 2099 Spidey from the Hobgoblin wave since I know Hasbro is eventually going to release a new one on the vintage Spidey body and I might be able to pull of $40-50 on there.

[Ultra Seven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

I really loved the first Spider-Verse series even though Marvel didn't put the issues in their proper order so I had to constantly flip back and forth through the book to do so.

Spider-Verse was the most fun, original, and out there storyline I’ve read in years! It’s why I’ll gladly buy each and every wack-ass Spider-Man variant Hasbro puts out (especially to put together Stilt-Man...).

[omega145]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor Laserpunch

Pretty much

Things evolve and change with time in everything and so do comics. I'd argue that overall the artwork is better today then of yesteryear. People criticize Liefeld and his feet but have you seen some of the anatomy choices of Kirby/Ditko? Today has some fantastic artists in Finch, Quesada, Dell'Otto, Yu, Copiel to name a few.
Always easy for people to favor their own personal generational content over the current one. I favor 90's Jim Lee Xmen as that is what I grew up on. Doesn't mean that it's automatically any better then Powers of X or anything modern.
For what its worth, i've found that Image comics has been consistently putting out great stories and original content for years, much better then anything Marvel has put out for some time.
Wait, isn't this a Marvel Legends appreciate thread and not a comic discussion thread?
I redid my entire closet space this weekend to reorganize some Legends and comics while also making sure I had space for the Haslab Sentinel.

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Seven

Spider-Verse was the most fun, original, and out there storyline I’ve read in years! It’s why I’ll gladly buy each and every wack-ass Spider-Man variant Hasbro puts out (especially to put together Stilt-Man...).

One of my favorite spidey moments happened during civil war when jj and his people were gathered around the tv and peter unmasked himself and the next panel while everyone is watching you just see this trail where jj was because he fainted. I have to admit i laughed so hard people in the comic shop looked over where i was standing.

[webz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega145

Pretty much

Things evolve and change with time in everything and so do comics. I'd argue that overall the artwork is better today then of yesteryear. People criticize Liefeld and his feet but have you seen some of the anatomy choices of Kirby/Ditko? Today has some fantastic artists in Finch, Quesada, Dell'Otto, Yu, Copiel to name a few.
Always easy for people to favor their own personal generational content over the current one. I favor 90's Jim Lee Xmen as that is what I grew up on. Doesn't mean that it's automatically any better then Powers of X or anything modern.
For what its worth, i've found that Image comics has been consistently putting out great stories and original content for years, much better then anything Marvel has put out for some time.
Wait, isn't this a Marvel Legends appreciate thread and not a comic discussion thread?
I redid my entire closet space this weekend to reorganize some Legends and comics while also making sure I had space for the Haslab Sentinel.

1) I'm not a boomer. GenX here, and proud of it!

2) I like the older comics because they seem more real. It looks like a person wearing clothes. Look at Chris Reeve's Superman. He put on lots of muscle for that role. He looks very similar to the Superman of comics in the 40's and 50's. A muscular man in tights. Look at Supes in the comics now. He looks like someone was skinned and the costume sprayed on over the raw muscle. All the muscles, tendons, and veins stick through the costume. I prefer the look of realistic costume. For me, it takes more skill to show dynamic action and realistically depict cloth costumes than it does to basically draw nudes. Again, it's all subjective. Like what you want. I'm merely stating what I like. I've tried to read a few modern collections at Barnes N Noble, and the art was so busy and crammed it gave me a headache.

3) 90's were one of the worst years for comics art, IMHO. Everyone was 10ft tall, either had massive shoulders or massive shoulder pads. Female heroes were constantly sweating strippers. Also, really was the start of the abusive "every book is a crossover" thing, that made trying to follow a story difficult when you would be following a team you DID like and it crossed over to a team that had an artist that looked like a 5 year old's scribbles (Maximum Carnage is one of the worst victims of this. Some art is decent, others look like it was drawn with Magnum Sharpies).

Anyway, back to Marvel Legends love... There was a 10/11 yr old kid at toy aisle who was THRILLED to find one of the PS4 game costume Legends figures. He was holding onto that toy like he was Indiana Jones with the gold idol. Makes me happy to see the intended audience for toys still enjoying them, and not completely saturated with desire for all things electronic.

[Captain Nash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by omega145

Pretty much

Things evolve and change with time in everything and so do comics. I'd argue that overall the artwork is better today then of yesteryear. People criticize Liefeld and his feet but have you seen some of the anatomy choices of Kirby/Ditko? Today has some fantastic artists in Finch, Quesada, Dell'Otto, Yu, Copiel to name a few.
Always easy for people to favor their own personal generational content over the current one. I favor 90's Jim Lee Xmen as that is what I grew up on. Doesn't mean that it's automatically any better then Powers of X or anything modern.
For what its worth, i've found that Image comics has been consistently putting out great stories and original content for years, much better then anything Marvel has put out for some time.
Wait, isn't this a Marvel Legends appreciate thread and not a comic discussion thread?
I redid my entire closet space this weekend to reorganize some Legends and comics while also making sure I had space for the Haslab Sentinel.

I agree with much of what you said but I don't agree with the example of Liefeld. His understand of human anatomy was just so off that I think he took inspiration from a anorexic contortionist pornstar.

[Ultra Seven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Nash

I agree with much of what you said but I don't agree with the example of Liefeld. His understand of human anatomy was just so off that I think he took inspiration from a anorexic contortionist pornstar.

“Anorexic contortionist pornstar” is my new band name.

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Seven

“Anorexic contortionist pornstar” is my new band name.

No no thats a new character to replace negasonic in deadpool 3.

[Veronica Mars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbinger

No no thats a new character to replace negasonic in deadpool 3.

Nope, not an ice cube's chance in hell with Disney at the wheel