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04-20-2011, 04:25 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 196
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This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check. Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them? It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys! The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging! |
04-20-2011, 05:09 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 844
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Quote:
This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check. Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them? It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys! The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging!
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04-20-2011, 08:02 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,238
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Yeaahh. I'd say considering how much they are probably being paid...this is probably another way to supplment some income hahaha.
But hell If i worked in a toy factory, I'd be going in with empty cargo pants in the morning and leaving with full ones in the afternoon ha |
04-20-2011, 09:37 AM | #4 |
Dark Lord of the 'Ark
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,224
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Quote:
This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check. Quote:
Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them?
I believe Hasbro has a "zero tolerance" policy about it. Generally, though, a factory employee could get fired for doing it. Or the contractor could pull the entire order and go to a different factory, costing the first factory a lot of money. So these workers don't smuggle out toys without some risk involved. Unfortunately, from what I understand, the factory workers make enough off these stolen toys that they feel the risk is worth the reward. Quote:
It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys!
The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging! Are you so sure you'd be willing to risk your livelihood were you in their situation?
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Last edited by trebleshot; 04-26-2011 at 12:23 PM.. |
04-20-2011, 03:18 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Limerick City, Ireland
Posts: 805
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I suppose think of it this way if you're family is starving you'd do anything to make money for them so i'm sure they don't think of it as a risk probaly there only option
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04-20-2011, 03:40 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 5,483
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I bought an ebay Mandarin that way- though I did not know the particulars.
Conditions in China suck-I'm not adverse to helping some sneaky bastard out while saving myself $90 or so in the process. Also consider that HASBRO's policies of short-running certain figures is the root of this practice- thay know it drives interest and the collector's market, and this is a side effect. |
04-20-2011, 07:36 PM | #7 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,542
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Quote:
This is an idle question. I've been buying a fair few loose figures from ebay sellers in China. It's a cheap viable way to grab army builders and fill in the checklist.
However, almost all the figures are what I would assume were fresh off a production line. They are never sold with accessories (unless it's just a generic sword/gun from another line) or packaging. If it wasn't for the fact that they're always in great shape i'd guess they were rejected figures that don't pass a quality control check. Does anyone know if it's standard practice for factory workers to grab loose figures from the production lines and re-sell them? It's pretty much what i'd be doing if I had access to the toys! The sellers always have a healthy stock of figures, and are bang up to date. The last figure I managed to win was a Giant battles Loki, saved myself about £40 by electing to not buy the frost giant and all the packaging!
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04-21-2011, 02:15 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 196
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I think moral absolutism is flawed, especially when you consider the simple need to provide for yourself, let alone a family.
Stealing bread to feed yourself is perfectly fine in my eyes, and if a worker in Dongguan province is on the Chinese minimum wage (around US$100 a month) then the calculated risk of removing surplus toys and selling them for profit is exactly the same. The Loki figure I bought was £10. That's the same as almost a weeks worth of factory labour in China. It's a calculated risk to take and if I lived on the edge of poverty it's one I wouldn't even think twice about. Hasbro still make a profit by under-paying employees and over-charging customers, toys still get sold and somewhere along the line a human being makes their life a little bit easier by exploiting the supplier-demand system intelligently. |
04-21-2011, 04:57 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 844
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Quote:
I think moral absolutism is flawed, especially when you consider the simple need to provide for yourself, let alone a family.
Stealing bread to feed yourself is perfectly fine in my eyes, and if a worker in Dongguan province is on the Chinese minimum wage (around US$100 a month) then the calculated risk of removing surplus toys and selling them for profit is exactly the same. The Loki figure I bought was £10. That's the same as almost a weeks worth of factory labour in China. It's a calculated risk to take and if I lived on the edge of poverty it's one I wouldn't even think twice about. Hasbro still make a profit by under-paying employees and over-charging customers, toys still get sold and somewhere along the line a human being makes their life a little bit easier by exploiting the supplier-demand system intelligently.
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04-21-2011, 08:45 AM | #10 |
Dark Lord of the 'Ark
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,224
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Personally, I don't condone the idea, but being a father of two, I can certainly understand the motivation. Especially considering the lack of alternatives for them.
Hasbro doesn't make any money off the secondary market, and they definitely don't make any money off black market sales. So why would they care what the secondary market is doing? And if a toy gets stolen off the assembly line, Hasbro doesn't see any of that profit. In fact, they lose money since they can't sell that figure to the retailers.
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04-21-2011, 09:09 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 842
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I might need to wash my DCUC short-haired Aquaman.
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04-21-2011, 09:23 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 5,483
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Quote:
Personally, I don't condone the idea, but being a father of two, I can certainly understand the motivation. Especially considering the lack of alternatives for them.
Hasbro doesn't make any money off the secondary market, and they definitely don't make any money off black market sales. So why would they care what the secondary market is doing? And if a toy gets stolen off the assembly line, Hasbro doesn't see any of that profit. In fact, they lose money since they can't sell that figure to the retailers. All of us have gone hunting for some particular figure only to find somethng we sorta wanted and bought just so the trip was not for nothing. Hasbro does not really care about a figure or ten going awol via ebay- it's very very minor.. Speaking of which- I just got my Mandarin in the post!My roommmate bought him on eby for $15 and $4 in shipping- it came right from China and I dont see how anyone made a killing off this with shipping rates and all that- and it arrived in ten days! As a collector, I feel pretty damn great having got this for under $20! And no, he has no sword or helmet- the pic on ebay did not have it either and I could care less- those would have gone in a box anyway. It came from Guandong....no clue if that's where MU figs are made or if this guy bought one cheap and sold it cheap. I'm happy. |
04-21-2011, 09:39 AM | #13 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,542
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Quote:
It generates hype and if people are looking for a rare figure, they're looking at all those other figures while they hunt.
All of us have gone hunting for some particular figure only to find somethng we sorta wanted and bought just so the trip was not for nothing. Hasbro does not really care about a figure or ten going awol via ebay- it's very very minor.. Speaking of which- I just got my Mandarin in the post!My roommmate bought him on eby for $15 and $4 in shipping- it came right from China and I dont see how anyone made a killing off this with shipping rates and all that- and it arrived in ten days! As a collector, I feel pretty damn great having got this for under $20! And no, he has no sword or helmet- the pic on ebay did not have it either and I could care less- those would have gone in a box anyway. It came from Guandong....no clue if that's where MU figs are made or if this guy bought one cheap and sold it cheap. I'm happy.
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The Transformers! Knowing Is Half The Battle! Thunder, Thunder, Hoooooooo!!!!! Tokusatsu all day everyday! CHECK OUT OUR RESOURCES SECTIONS HERE!: Transformers Database GI Joe Database |
04-21-2011, 10:02 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 728
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Quote:
Personally, I don't condone the idea, but being a father of two, I can certainly understand the motivation. Especially considering the lack of alternatives for them.
Hasbro doesn't make any money off the secondary market, and they definitely don't make any money off black market sales. So why would they care what the secondary market is doing? And if a toy gets stolen off the assembly line, Hasbro doesn't see any of that profit. In fact, they lose money since they can't sell that figure to the retailers. |
04-21-2011, 10:48 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 196
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I wonder if the secondary market, especially ebay, plays into Hasbro's costing.
And just FYI, Guandong is the epicentre in China! Its the main production site for Hasbro's toys. |
04-21-2011, 10:48 AM | #16 |
Repulsars ready to kill
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottetown,P.E.I. Canada
Posts: 4,825
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Hasbro Cares about making money plain and simple, I would assume a billion dollary company would have advanced security measures for it's employees and workers to avoid major press leaks before work is actually complete, the same way FORD,GMC,CHEVY etc do with all their new toys, they test them and make sure everything is perfect before showings pics to the general public. With toys it's different, for all we know Hasbro has in their contract with the factory workers your allowed to take x # of figures /week/month/year or at the very least major discount if they wanted to buy any, from there go to ebay see what's selling for the most and aim to take thoose. There is also the robin-hood side of the story, worker who works hard to support his family. steals from the big Monster Hasbro, in returns sells the toys for enough profit/risk to justify supporting his family. Frankly Hasbro and it's top level works and design frame ain't making $100/month more like $100-1000/day! as long as they meet their quota who cares how many extra copies get made/stolen/broken?
Frankily I don't condone it but don't hate bash, it gives us the chance to see merch before hasbro even decided to release it, opportunities for collectors to find missing holes in their collection for cheap/cheaper then retail/scalper. It allows customizers rescources to more fodder parts for cheap, and allows die-hards the options to army build at not a crazy amount of $$ doing so, I always see this seller who has 4-5 red ninja's for like $5... hells ya. |
04-22-2011, 10:21 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 37
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I was wondering the same thing. I saw a guy selling the ML Deadpool 2 pack variant for 9.99 buy it now. He had about 80 of them.
There are sellers selling them now, but from older lines. Could they be counterfeit? |
04-22-2011, 08:05 PM | #18 |
Illyria's New Qwa'ha Xahn
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: In the clouds.
Posts: 4,120
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Quote:
I've never bought legends before so I don't know the plastic grades, but it does feel different than the typical figures I've had before. I also had to fix spots of her, as the pegs in the knees, and ankles weren't all the way through their spots leaving them kind of dangling half on. Easy fix with two hard objects to push the peg through the rest of the way and lock it in place, but it certainly was odd. At the cost, the age of the figure, and the perfectness of it's condition besides that small correction, I'm not going to complain. It still seems odd though. |
04-22-2011, 09:24 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Corrupted City
Posts: 350
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usually as collector i dont like to buy some stuff like this, but honestly for some exception like build an army like skrull, hand ninja, shield soldier, hydra army yes i have recently bought reject product from china. but i just buy for all HASBRO product not Toybiz.
For me, the price yes that very cheap and worth it for that kind of product, but sometimes after bought it, i kinda feel not enjoy to have that. not too satisfy the same as we get original stuff to get that kind of product. but not all collector have a enough money to buy this kind of thing which every year the price for the toys always raising up, so somehow i can understand about this
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04-25-2011, 06:43 AM | #20 |
Dark Lord of the 'Ark
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,224
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Quote:
When we buy other things while hunting for a specific toy, that is more of a side-effect of our lack of self-control than the Evil Machinizations of Hasbro Corporate. We really can't blame Hasbro because we can't say no. That's like an obese person blaming McDonald's for being fat. Seriously, collectors are not the main market for toys. We make up a small percentage at most, while children (and parents) constitute the bulk of the purchasing power. We are just not that important to the bottom line. Sure, Hasbro does appreciate the fans and when they can, they do add things for us. Also, there are certain lines that are specifically tailored to collectors. But Marvel Universe is not one of them. It is still a mass-market product, and as such is still aimed at kids. The stuff Hasbro does for collectors? SDCC exclusives. MDC Nick Fury and Archangel. The Fans' Choice poll and figures. Iron Man armor #316, on the other hand? For the kids. ....well and the odd Iron Man Hall of Armors completist. Quote:
Hasbro does not really care about a figure or ten going awol via ebay- it's very very minor..
Quote:
Quote:
Hasbro Cares about making money plain and simple, I would assume a billion dollary company would have advanced security measures for it's employees and workers to avoid major press leaks before work is actually complete, the same way FORD,GMC,CHEVY etc do with all their new toys, they test them and make sure everything is perfect before showings pics to the general public.
Quote:
With toys it's different, for all we know Hasbro has in their contract with the factory workers your allowed to take x # of figures /week/month/year or at the very least major discount if they wanted to buy any, from there go to ebay see what's selling for the most and aim to take thoose.
If it was legal and authorized by Hasbro, per the contract item you mentioned, then why would auctions like these get taken down all the time by Ebay at the request of Hasbro and others? Don't get me wrong, I never said I had a problem with what the factory workers do, or what my fellow collectors spend their money on. Moral ambiguities aside, I'm just pointing out the situation.
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04-26-2011, 07:41 AM | #21 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 728
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Quote:
When it comes to the bottom line, that is exactly what I think. Hasbro's already made their money on products that hit the secondary market. From a marketing standpoint, however, I'm sure Hasbro does keep an eye on the market trends. I'm also certain that their legal department keeps an eye on the market too - especially when it involves their as-yet-unreleased products or KO of their products. Even the R&D department might even look at the secondary market for possible ideas. Secondary market heat drives interest in the brand, which has a direct impact on the bottom line. Period. And once again, there is NO WAY you don't know that. You still trollin'. |
04-26-2011, 11:54 AM | #22 |
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 697
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Quote:
Aside from that already-mentioned point (again, you must've just missed it), no, Hasbro doesn't give a hoot about the secondary market when they made their money two steps further back in the chain. |
04-26-2011, 01:19 PM | #23 |
Dark Lord of the 'Ark
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,224
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If the "heat" you're referring to includes pre-production, prototype and otherwise unreleased toys, they are not considered part of the "secondary market". By definition, those types of items haven't hit the primary market yet (i.e. retail). And retail sales is Hasbro's bottom line. Secondary market items have already gone through regular retail and by that point, Hasbro's already made its money on those items.
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Last edited by trebleshot; 04-26-2011 at 01:28 PM.. |
04-26-2011, 05:07 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 728
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Quote:
And Trebleshot, I'm not talking specifically about unreleased toys. Your original comment that I responded to was talking about the secondary market, so that's all I'm talking about. There's no use debating definitions. Once again, heat on the secondary market can absolutely intensify consumer interest in the brand, which directly impacts sales. That's all I'm saying. |
04-26-2011, 05:41 PM | #25 |
This must be the place
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,168
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Quote:
Dude, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with "gauging market trends". Thanks for your input, though.
And Trebleshot, I'm not talking specifically about unreleased toys. Your original comment that I responded to was talking about the secondary market, so that's all I'm talking about. There's no use debating definitions. Once again, heat on the secondary market can absolutely intensify consumer interest in the brand, which directly impacts sales. That's all I'm saying. Last edited by trebleshot; 04-27-2011 at 10:44 AM.. |
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