AvX Discussion and Speculation

Greenskar · 05-30-2012, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

Cool can't wait to get it, but I thought he gave Hope up to Cap, what happened there?

Yeah I forgot that part. In the panel where he says, "but I ain't the guy who kills kids" he's behind Hope as she's climbing over a boulder and he sends a message to cap on whatever avengers communicator they use. Then as he puts the communicator/cell phone away that's the panel where he says, "I'm the guy who saves them".

Which makes a whole lot more sense to me because he trusts Cap would never let any harm come to a kid unlike Cyclops who is currently desperate and more than willing to sacrifice in the name of mutant survival.

All in all this has been the best issue of the entire AvX event and possibly the entire WatXM series in general. I give this issue my very rare 5 out of 5 score. I must've read it four times already today.

Now I need to read the New 52 Batman annual, which I heard was also pretty good and introduced Mr. Freeze to the new 52.

Exodus · 05-30-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

Yeah I forgot that part. In the panel where he says, "but I ain't the guy who kills kids" he's behind Hope as she's climbing over a boulder and he sends a message to cap on whatever avengers communicator they use. Then as he puts the communicator/cell phone away that's the panel where he says, "I'm the guy who saves them".

Which makes a whole lot more sense to me because he trusts Cap would never let any harm come to a kid unlike Cyclops who is currently desperate and more than willing to sacrifice in the name of mutant survival.

All in all this has been the best issue of the entire AvX event and possibly the entire WatXM series in general. I give this issue my very rare 5 out of 5 score. I must've read it four times already today.

Now I need to read the New 52 Batman annual, which I heard was also pretty good and introduced Mr. Freeze to the new 52.

Cool thanks for that, I like WatXM, but I just can't stand Chris Bacchalo's artwork, can't read the panels!!

KingLouie731 · 05-31-2012, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

I don't collect legacy. But here's what happened in WatXM #11:

Kid gladiator is drugged and abducted by his guardian in an attempt to flee the earth from the impending doom the Phoenix is expected to bring. Kid gladiator sees this fight as too big for him to miss and probably thinks it a proving grounds of sorts, so he breaks free and heads back to Earth to join the fight against the Avengers and is later seen punching Red Hulk in the face during flight.

There are multiple panels that show the various fights taking place between the A&X. Among them, Dr. Strange vs Magneto and Iron Fist vs Rachel Grey, however, the one fight that occurs that has me excited for the entirety of it during the next AvX: VS is Red Hulk vs Iceman. Its a surprisingly more even fight then you might think now that Iceman is seemingly about as strong now as the AoA version of him was.

The meat of this issue, though, focuses on Wolverine and Hope on their way to an AIM facility where they could jack a spacecraft to get them to the moon. During the blackbird flight Wolvie has flashbacks of Jean as the Phoenix begging him to kill her and him not being able to do it. He questions what he's even doing with Hope now and in general. Comments about how he's supposed to be there because he's the only one who can kill her if things go bad. Says he's supposedly "the best there is..." but since when did that involve killing kids?

Its then that they're shot down and attacked by Shi'ar Death Commandos. Hope borrows Wolverine's healing ability to survive the crash and then pops claws of her own to fight the commandos alongside wolverine. Wolverine reminds her that they've trained all their lives to kill and she reminds him she's been trained all her life to survive. They hold their own pretty well up until the Skrull commando impales and then guts hope while wolvie is being devoured alive by flesh eating bugs courtesy of the death Commando "Colony".

Then Hope goes Phoenix rage on everyone at which point Wolvie recovers and notices the dark Phoenix grin on hope while she takes out the death commandos and his claws pop ready to take her out. Then he flashes back again and sees Jean again pleading for him to kill her. Hope disengages the Phoenix power and reasons that the Phoenix must be close since her flare ups are getting stronger and asserts they should get to the moon soon.

SPOILER: the following is Wolverine's internal monologue exactly as it was written in this issue. If you want to read it yourself in this issue or in the collected book please skip the next few paragraphs.

Wolverines claws retract and the following internal monologue is spread out across several pages through multiple panels filled with various AvX fight scenes:

"Time to face facts...I'll never be able to do it. I'll never be able to kill her. No matter what. Its not just because she reminds me of Jean. Other than the hair she really doesn't. Jean was the most amazing woman I ever met. I look at Hope... and all I see is a kid. There was a time I could kill pretty much anyone anywhere for any reason at all. Bit that time's gone. "

"Even if it's to save the world, how could i go back to my school and face the kids there, with Hope's blood on my hands? How could i face myself? That ain't what I been fighting for. That ain't who I am. I'm Wolverine. Best there is at what I do. I'm the guy you call when there's somebody needs a good stabbing. But I ain't the guy who kills kids. I'm the guy who saves them."

Following that monologue Gladiator shows up to the Jean Grey school pissed demanding his son. End issue.

Makes me think our buddy Wolverine is going to take a breather soon. He kind of seems to be a less obvious lynchpin to this series, Wanda & Hope being the obvious ones, which has caused me to speculate. Plus what better way to help kill some of the Wolverine hype than to kill him and make him go away for a while. Hey I can hope right *no pun intended*

Greenskar · 05-31-2012, 07:18 AM

I don't want Wolverine to go away, just simply reduced to two books only. WatXM and Uncanny X-Force. He did his time with the Avengers...time to keep him in the school. I guess three books since he's got his solo that won't be going away ever.

But yeah, we can only dream. Marvel milks wolvie's popularity the same way DC does Batman. Throw him in everything and anything.

bmorr · 05-31-2012, 08:21 AM

thanks for the synopsis! it sounds like an awesome book, i MIGHT have to try it out considering my pull list is now two books short for now on since Irredeemable finally concluded.

Exodus · 05-31-2012, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLouie731

Makes me think our buddy Wolverine is going to take a breather soon. He kind of seems to be a less obvious lynchpin to this series, Wanda & Hope being the obvious ones, which has caused me to speculate. Plus what better way to help kill some of the Wolverine hype than to kill him and make him go away for a while. Hey I can hope right *no pun intended*

You know I'm surprise Rachel Grey doesn't get more spotlight as well since she was the last host for the Phoenix....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

I don't want Wolverine to go away, just simply reduced to two books only. WatXM and Uncanny X-Force. He did his time with the Avengers...time to keep him in the school. I guess three books since he's got his solo that won't be going away ever.

But yeah, we can only dream. Marvel milks wolvie's popularity the same way DC does Batman. Throw him in everything and anything.

Ya 2 books would be good, I tried to get every Wolverine book and whatever story he was in, but that started to become a strain and dropped the Avengers and his second Wolvy title.

Greenskar · 05-31-2012, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

Cool thanks for that, I like WatXM, but I just can't stand Chris Bacchalo's artwork, can't read the panels!!

Then you'll be happy to know Nick Bradshaw penciled this issue and not Bacchalo.

Exodus · 05-31-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

Then you'll be happy to know Nick Bradshaw penciled this issue and not Bacchalo.

Thank God, hopefully Chris moves away from any X-Titles, even though Liefeld and Land are kind of copy cats, but at least you can see the panels. Could never stand B's work.

Kaewin · 05-31-2012, 08:47 PM

You know what is funny, for many years there was not Phoenix and all of a sudden it seems as if every few years it has to come back. This shit is old. They just need to stop it.

Also I saw the solicitation of AvX for issue 9 and 10 and the X-Men have somehow imprisoned the Avengers, what shit is this. When they groups first mixed it up the avengers were split but but the time this gets around it should be the full team. makes no sense.

Greenskar · 05-31-2012, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaewin

You know what is funny, for many years there was not Phoenix and all of a sudden it seems as if every few years it has to come back. This shit is old. They just need to stop it.

Also I saw the solicitation of AvX for issue 9 and 10 and the X-Men have somehow imprisoned the Avengers, what shit is this. When they groups first mixed it up the avengers were split but but the time this gets around it should be the full team. makes no sense.

After all the build up from Messiah complex through 2nd coming and all the hinting towards a connection between hope and the Phoenix its not like we didn't see this coming. It's been 5 yrs since the last Phoenix story and that entity has been a major part of X-Men lore since its inception to the books. I have no problem with bringing the Phoenix force back as long as its not Jean. So now its Hope. Ok. I almost wonder if the Phoenix chooses a different host since Hope is not a telepath and instead hope becomes the next Iron fist or something related to it with the Dragon chi to battle the Phoenix as its anti-thesis or something, which I would love to see.

Anyway, since I've been following from the Morrison run til now, pretty regularly, I'm looking forward to getting some resolution to the Hope/Phoenix build up. So far, the event, when counting its tie-in's, isn't the disaster that fear itself was. Although, there is still plenty of issues left to contradict that statement.

As for the X-Men imprisoning the Avengers...Its about time they got the upper hand at some point. The Avengers have been kicking their ass so far for the most part. I'm just curious to see what triggered the shift in power. Maybe Cyclops became the host of the Phoenix force and Marvel just blind sided everyone O_O

Exodus · 05-31-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

After all the build up from Messiah complex through 2nd coming and all the hinting towards a connection between hope and the Phoenix its not like we didn't see this coming. It's been 5 yrs since the last Phoenix story and that entity has been a major part of X-Men lore since its inception to the books. I have no problem with bringing the Phoenix force back as long as its not Jean. So now its Hope. Ok. I almost wonder if the Phoenix chooses a different host since Hope is not a telepath and instead hope becomes the next Iron fist or something related to it with the Dragon chi to battle the Phoenix as its anti-thesis or something, which I would love to see.

Anyway, since I've been following from the Morrison run til now, pretty regularly, I'm looking forward to getting some resolution to the Hope/Phoenix build up. So far, the event, when counting its tie-in's, isn't the disaster that fear itself was. Although, there is still plenty of issues left to contradict that statement.

As for the X-Men imprisoning the Avengers...Its about time they got the upper hand at some point. The Avengers have been kicking their ass so far for the most part. I'm just curious to see what triggered the shift in power. Maybe Cyclops became the host of the Phoenix force and Marvel just blind sided everyone O_O

I like Second Coming and Messiah War, 2 pretty bad ass stories.

xhavoc86 · 06-01-2012, 09:01 AM

come to think of it, with the Avengers vs X-Men storyline, they should make a new fighting game similar to Marvel vs Capcom with Avengers vs X-Men characters

Exodus · 06-01-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhavoc86

come to think of it, with the Avengers vs X-Men storyline, they should make a new fighting game similar to Marvel vs Capcom with Avengers vs X-Men characters

That would be sick!!! Hopefully it's in the works, like how they used MUA2 with a Civil War story.

xhavoc86 · 06-01-2012, 09:55 AM

My lineup for an Avengers vs X-Men game would be (basing this on the standard 36 characters in umvc3, and 2 dlc characters):

Team Avengers:
Captain America, Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider Man, Thor, Ms. Marvel, Black Widow, Spider Woman, Hawkeye, Hulk, She Hulk, Nova, Dr. Strange, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Vision, Thing

Team X-Men:
Cyclops, Namor, Storm, Magneto, White Queen, Colossus, Gambit, Psylocke, Rogue, Archangel, Magik, Iceman, Dazzler, Sunspot, Cannonball, Fantomex, Rachel Grey, Danger

Team ??? (DLC):
Scarlet Witch, Sebastian Shaw

BOSS: Hope (has and mimics everyone's skills or maybe the Phoenix Force)

Greenskar · 06-01-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

That would be sick!!! Hopefully it's in the works, like how they used MUA2 with a Civil War story.

Now this I would enjoy. I never pick any of the capcom characters in the marvel vs capcom games. I prefer to play the marvel side. Give me another pure Marvel game and leave out the capcom guys! Lol.

Exodus · 06-01-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

Now this I would enjoy. I never pick any of the capcom characters in the marvel vs capcom games. I prefer to play the marvel side. Give me another pure Marvel game and leave out the capcom guys! Lol.

Haha ya like the X-Men street fighter style that they put out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhavoc86

My lineup for an Avengers vs X-Men game would be (basing this on the standard 36 characters in umvc3, and 2 dlc characters):

Team Avengers:
Captain America, Luke Cage, Wolverine, Spider Man, Thor, Ms. Marvel, Black Widow, Spider Woman, Hawkeye, Hulk, She Hulk, Nova, Dr. Strange, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Vision, Thing

Team X-Men:
Cyclops, Namor, Storm, Magneto, White Queen, Colossus, Gambit, Psylocke, Rogue, Archangel, Magik, Iceman, Dazzler, Sunspot, Cannonball, Fantomex, Rachel Grey, Danger

Team ??? (DLC):
Scarlet Witch, Sebastian Shaw

BOSS: Hope (has and mimics everyone's skills or maybe the Phoenix Force)

You know they could easily do this especially since half of these characters have already been made Capcom/Marvel style, and they could just tweak the others for example Deadpool switch it up to Fantomex minus the swords.

xhavoc86 · 06-01-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

You know they could easily do this especially since half of these characters have already been made Capcom/Marvel style, and they could just tweak the others for example Deadpool switch it up to Fantomex minus the swords.

They need to do it!!! it would be so AWEEESOMMEEE!!!

rodimus15 · 06-01-2012, 11:21 AM

As much as I'd love an all marvel fighting game, you guys are crazy. LOL. What they need to do is make a Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3. Continue with the skrull invasion, into siege, skip fear itself and when the dust settles make another game. Marvel Divided Alliance based on AvX. I know I know, Brilliant.

xhavoc86 · 06-01-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodimus15

As much as I'd love an all marvel fighting game, you guys are crazy. LOL. What they need to do is make a Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3. Continue with the skrull invasion, into siege, skip fear itself and when the dust settles make another game. Marvel Divided Alliance based on AvX. I know I know, Brilliant.

I would not be against this. I'm still bitter they came out with X-Men Destiny instead of an X-Men Legends game...wtf was X-Men Destiny, that was pure garbage.

bmorr · 06-01-2012, 11:35 AM

Id be happy if Marvel stepped up their animation game like DC does. I want to a dvd movie of this. Well, that and i really dont play video games.....

rodimus15 · 06-01-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

Id be happy if Marvel stepped up their animation game like DC does. I want to a dvd movie of this. Well, that and i really dont play video games.....

True that. We haven't gotten an animated movie in a while.

xhavoc86 · 06-01-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodimus15

True that. We haven't gotten an animated movie in a while.

We never received a good animated marvel movie either. Nope.

Exodus · 06-01-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodimus15

True that. We haven't gotten an animated movie in a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhavoc86

We never received a good animated marvel movie either. Nope.

Surprise they've stopped in that area, maybe because they've gone main stream with Disney so they've stopped the videos. DC is suppose to have one out soon, looks good.

bmorr · 06-01-2012, 12:58 PM

the only entertaining one ive seen is hulk vs.

Iceman · 06-01-2012, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhavoc86

We never received a good animated marvel movie either. Nope.

Ultimate Avengers was half awesome and half dumbed down for kids.

I did like the Dr. Strange movie. I never really knew much about him before that outside of a few Spider-Man episodes and MUA.

05-30-2012, 08:55 PM	#201
Greenskar Puny Humans Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,342	Quote: Originally Posted by Exodus Cool can't wait to get it, but I thought he gave Hope up to Cap, what happened there? Yeah I forgot that part. In the panel where he says, "but I ain't the guy who kills kids" he's behind Hope as she's climbing over a boulder and he sends a message to cap on whatever avengers communicator they use. Then as he puts the communicator/cell phone away that's the panel where he says, "I'm the guy who saves them". Which makes a whole lot more sense to me because he trusts Cap would never let any harm come to a kid unlike Cyclops who is currently desperate and more than willing to sacrifice in the name of mutant survival. All in all this has been the best issue of the entire AvX event and possibly the entire WatXM series in general. I give this issue my very rare 5 out of 5 score. I must've read it four times already today. Now I need to read the New 52 Batman annual, which I heard was also pretty good and introduced Mr. Freeze to the new 52. __________________

05-31-2012, 04:44 AM	#203
KingLouie731 Amazing Friends Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Rolesville NC Posts: 1,678	Quote: Originally Posted by Greenskar I don't collect legacy. But here's what happened in WatXM #11: Kid gladiator is drugged and abducted by his guardian in an attempt to flee the earth from the impending doom the Phoenix is expected to bring. Kid gladiator sees this fight as too big for him to miss and probably thinks it a proving grounds of sorts, so he breaks free and heads back to Earth to join the fight against the Avengers and is later seen punching Red Hulk in the face during flight. There are multiple panels that show the various fights taking place between the A&X. Among them, Dr. Strange vs Magneto and Iron Fist vs Rachel Grey, however, the one fight that occurs that has me excited for the entirety of it during the next AvX: VS is Red Hulk vs Iceman. Its a surprisingly more even fight then you might think now that Iceman is seemingly about as strong now as the AoA version of him was. The meat of this issue, though, focuses on Wolverine and Hope on their way to an AIM facility where they could jack a spacecraft to get them to the moon. During the blackbird flight Wolvie has flashbacks of Jean as the Phoenix begging him to kill her and him not being able to do it. He questions what he's even doing with Hope now and in general. Comments about how he's supposed to be there because he's the only one who can kill her if things go bad. Says he's supposedly "the best there is..." but since when did that involve killing kids? Its then that they're shot down and attacked by Shi'ar Death Commandos. Hope borrows Wolverine's healing ability to survive the crash and then pops claws of her own to fight the commandos alongside wolverine. Wolverine reminds her that they've trained all their lives to kill and she reminds him she's been trained all her life to survive. They hold their own pretty well up until the Skrull commando impales and then guts hope while wolvie is being devoured alive by flesh eating bugs courtesy of the death Commando "Colony". Then Hope goes Phoenix rage on everyone at which point Wolvie recovers and notices the dark Phoenix grin on hope while she takes out the death commandos and his claws pop ready to take her out. Then he flashes back again and sees Jean again pleading for him to kill her. Hope disengages the Phoenix power and reasons that the Phoenix must be close since her flare ups are getting stronger and asserts they should get to the moon soon. SPOILER: the following is Wolverine's internal monologue exactly as it was written in this issue. If you want to read it yourself in this issue or in the collected book please skip the next few paragraphs. Wolverines claws retract and the following internal monologue is spread out across several pages through multiple panels filled with various AvX fight scenes: "Time to face facts...I'll never be able to do it. I'll never be able to kill her. No matter what. Its not just because she reminds me of Jean. Other than the hair she really doesn't. Jean was the most amazing woman I ever met. I look at Hope... and all I see is a kid. There was a time I could kill pretty much anyone anywhere for any reason at all. Bit that time's gone. " "Even if it's to save the world, how could i go back to my school and face the kids there, with Hope's blood on my hands? How could i face myself? That ain't what I been fighting for. That ain't who I am. I'm Wolverine. Best there is at what I do. I'm the guy you call when there's somebody needs a good stabbing. But I ain't the guy who kills kids. I'm the guy who saves them." Following that monologue Gladiator shows up to the Jean Grey school pissed demanding his son. End issue. Makes me think our buddy Wolverine is going to take a breather soon. He kind of seems to be a less obvious lynchpin to this series, Wanda & Hope being the obvious ones, which has caused me to speculate. Plus what better way to help kill some of the Wolverine hype than to kill him and make him go away for a while. Hey I can hope right no pun intended __________________

05-31-2012, 07:18 AM	#204
Greenskar Puny Humans Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,342	I don't want Wolverine to go away, just simply reduced to two books only. WatXM and Uncanny X-Force. He did his time with the Avengers...time to keep him in the school. I guess three books since he's got his solo that won't be going away ever. But yeah, we can only dream. Marvel milks wolvie's popularity the same way DC does Batman. Throw him in everything and anything. __________________

05-31-2012, 08:56 AM	#207
Greenskar Puny Humans Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,342	Quote: Originally Posted by Exodus Cool thanks for that, I like WatXM, but I just can't stand Chris Bacchalo's artwork, can't read the panels!! Then you'll be happy to know Nick Bradshaw penciled this issue and not Bacchalo. __________________

05-31-2012, 09:22 PM	#210
Greenskar Puny Humans Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,342	Quote: Originally Posted by Kaewin You know what is funny, for many years there was not Phoenix and all of a sudden it seems as if every few years it has to come back. This shit is old. They just need to stop it. Also I saw the solicitation of AvX for issue 9 and 10 and the X-Men have somehow imprisoned the Avengers, what shit is this. When they groups first mixed it up the avengers were split but but the time this gets around it should be the full team. makes no sense. After all the build up from Messiah complex through 2nd coming and all the hinting towards a connection between hope and the Phoenix its not like we didn't see this coming. It's been 5 yrs since the last Phoenix story and that entity has been a major part of X-Men lore since its inception to the books. I have no problem with bringing the Phoenix force back as long as its not Jean. So now its Hope. Ok. I almost wonder if the Phoenix chooses a different host since Hope is not a telepath and instead hope becomes the next Iron fist or something related to it with the Dragon chi to battle the Phoenix as its anti-thesis or something, which I would love to see. Anyway, since I've been following from the Morrison run til now, pretty regularly, I'm looking forward to getting some resolution to the Hope/Phoenix build up. So far, the event, when counting its tie-in's, isn't the disaster that fear itself was. Although, there is still plenty of issues left to contradict that statement. As for the X-Men imprisoning the Avengers...Its about time they got the upper hand at some point. The Avengers have been kicking their ass so far for the most part. I'm just curious to see what triggered the shift in power. Maybe Cyclops became the host of the Phoenix force and Marvel just blind sided everyone O_O __________________ Last edited by Greenskar; 05-31-2012 at 09:24 PM..