[metalalchemist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

The sodomite touched your sensitive point? No wonder you're upset!

Lol!!! Now I´m beginning to feel raped and dirty

[thechris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Vader

That's the guy. He's played a lot of goofy parts like that. He was also Freakshow in Harold & Kumar/White Castle. I like him, but also think he looks just like the actor who played Casey back in the 90's.

He was also a main character on Oz, which is actually a great show if you can get past all the man ass... and also stars J. Jonah Jameson.

Yeah, Elias Koteas was on CSI:NY a while back playing some psycho bankrobber. Great episode.

[nakobass]

Why do people give Michael Bay so much crap when he's just the Producer of TMNT. But no one says a thing about the Producer of the Transformers Movies, Steven Spielberg? I don't want to debate the success or fail of the TF movies. People are pretty polarized on that. It takes more then 1 guy to make a movie, even if he is the director or the producer.

[thechris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nakobass

Why do people give Michael Bay so much crap when he's just the Producer of TMNT. But no one says a thing about the Producer of the Transformers Movies, Steven Spielberg? I don't want to debate the success or fail of the TF movies. People are pretty polarized on that. It takes more then 1 guy to make a movie, even if he is the director or the producer.

I'll tell you why, because Spielberg didn't plaster his face all over Transformers. And who's at it again with TMNT? Yep, Michael FREAKING Bay... If you want TOP CREDIT for something you're involved in, prepare to be on the receiving end of publicity, good and bad... But then I suppose one must stand behind their product... if they're going to be sodomizing it.

[nakobass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechris

I'll tell you why, because Spielberg didn't plaster his face all over Transformers. And who's at it again with TMNT? Yep, Michael FREAKING Bay... If you want TOP CREDIT for something you're involved in, prepare to be on the receiving end of publicity, good and bad... But then I suppose one must stand behind their product... if they're going to be sodomizing it.

That doesn't really answer my question. Bay was picked by Spielberg himself, He advertised the movies as much as anybody. But no one says anything about him, yet Bay gets all the hate. I'm just saying if your going to give crap to Bay, it's only fair at least some blame goes to Spielberg also. If not, people's bashing of Bay just seems irrational, even more so given the overwhelming positives of the TF movies weighted against the negatives.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nakobass

That doesn't really answer my question. Bay was picked by Spielberg himself, He advertised the movies as much as anybody. But no one says anything about him, yet Bay gets all the hate. I'm just saying if your going to give crap to Bay, it's only fair at least some blame goes to Spielberg also. If not, people's bashing of Bay just seems irrational, even more so given the overwhelming positives of the TF movies weighted against the negatives.

You can't fool me Michael Bay. I know its you. Don't try to bring Steven Spielberg down with you. He brought us all Raiders of the lost ark, Jaws, E.T and Jurassic park, to name a few.

You brought us a scotish accented old rusty ass Jetfire who farted parachutes and two of the worst characters (Twins) since Jar Jar Binks!

Its the influence of people like you and George Lucas that cause him to agree to help you sodomize beloved franchises like Indiana Jones (Crystal Skull) and Transformers (insert movie). Its ok though, because I'm rational, I will hate you for turning Steven to the dark side and joining you on your campaign to rape all beloved 80's franchises with explosions, Aliens and the strap on you call Shia Lebeouf.

[redx24]

ugh just ugh. we have 3 great turtle films why not just continue from there or make something completly new?? why is hollywood rehashing so many older projects??

[nakobass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

You can't fool me Michael Bay. I know its you. Don't try to bring Steven Spielberg down with you. He brought us all Raiders of the lost ark, Jaws, E.T and Jurassic park, to name a few.

You brought us a scotish accented old rusty ass Jetfire who farted parachutes and two of the worst characters (Twins) since Jar Jar Binks!

Its the influence of people like you and George Lucas that cause him to agree to help you sodomize beloved franchises like Indiana Jones (Crystal Skull) and Transformers (insert movie). Its ok though, because I'm rational, I will hate you for turning Steven to the dark side and joining you on your campaign to rape all beloved 80's franchises with explosions, Aliens and the strap on you call Shia Lebeouf.

I'm not Micheal Bay. Can you please explain how he raped your childhood, when he spread the popularity of Transformers as a whole around the entire world, and for years to come. Would you have perfered the movies didn't exist, and Transformers were dead or at least not as popular today? I'm not trying to start a fight. I really want to understand.

[nakobass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by redx24

ugh just ugh. we have 3 great turtle films why not just continue from there or make something completly new?? why is hollywood rehashing so many older projects??

NO matter how much certain amount of people hate the TF movies, they made an astronomical amount of money. That's the only reason they even got Bay to produce the TMNT. No matter what some fans may think, there a good chance he can do the same for Ninja Turtles.

[DogFashionDisco]

Let me put it this way, the people exploiting the popularity of things that we've enjoyed as kids are not in the same boat. They're marketing people, you know, soulless sociopaths that figured out that a bunch of nostalgic nerds would pay to see movies based on cartoons and characters from our childhood, regardless of how little thought is put into it. Plus, trying to tackle something like Transformers or TMNT isn't an easy task, so in many ways I'd rather leave those "franchises" alone and be left with fond memories rather than bastardized Hollywood interpretations that only serve to undermine the things that engaged my imagination growing up.

[nakobass]

I saw Transformers and TMNT when I was a kid in the 80s. I truly enjoyed them. Kids today really enjoy the Transformers and Ninja Turtles of today. I'm just happy the things I loved so much as a kid has evolved and is continuing to be enjoyed by kids today so many years later. I don't see that as raping my childhood, I see it as continuing a legacy.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nakobass

I saw Transformers and TMNT when I was a kid in the 80s. I truly enjoyed them. Kids today really enjoy the Transformers and Ninja Turtles of today. I'm just happy the things I loved so much as a kid has evolved and is continuing to be enjoyed by kids today so many years later. I don't see that as raping my childhood, I see it as continuing a legacy.

all joking aside, if you enjoy it, good for you. I can only speak for me, but I'm certainly not asking you to share my opinion. I don't like his vision of these franchises, TF's or TMNT. You may not like my opinion or what seems to be a rather shared opinion of how bad his Transformers movies are to the overall canon of the franchise, but you definitely asked us and the fact of the matter is we don't owe you one. We choose to for the sake of argument.

As far as the sheer exposure of the TF franchise to the masses based off of numbers, I don't equate making a lot of money with quality of an artistic endeavor. If that's the case lets call Justin Beiber the most talented musical artist of the new mellenium. Do you think he is?

I believe there currently exists far better representations of the TF's than what Bay did. I don't know if his TMNT will be any good, I can't say for certain...but I can say that if somehow, the turtles end up being aliens...there's gonna be a lot of pissed off fans. That's a fact. Even if this movie makes a billion dollars worldwide.

But to be fair...there are far worse things for today's youth to be exposed to. So I don't mind a new generation gets to watch these characters on screen and become interested

[thechris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenskar

all joking aside, if you enjoy it, good for you. I can only speak for me, but I'm certainly not asking you to share my opinion. I don't like his vision of these franchises, TF's or TMNT. You may not like my opinion or what seems to be a rather shared opinion of how bad his Transformers movies are to the overall canon of the franchise, but you definitely asked us and the fact of the matter is we don't owe you one. We choose to for the sake of argument.

As far as the sheer exposure of the TF franchise to the masses based off of numbers, I don't equate making a lot of money with quality of an artistic endeavor. If that's the case lets call Justin Beiber the most talented musical artist of the new mellenium. Do you think he is?

I believe there currently exists far better representations of the TF's than what Bay did. I don't know if his TMNT will be any good, I can't say for certain...but I can say that if somehow, the turtles end up being aliens...there's gonna be a lot of pissed off fans. That's a fact. Even if this movie makes a billion dollars worldwide.

But to be fair...there are far worse things for today's youth to be exposed to. So I don't mind a new generation gets to watch these characters on screen and become interested

Hey... HEY... This is about Ninja Turtles. Let's just agree to leave the Biebs bashing out of this, ok...

[Tiberius]

I guess no one likes Black Transformers.

THEY FUCKING CARRIED THAT MOVIE.

[nakobass]

I remember coming out of TF Dark of the Moon, and two little kids were jumping up and down saying how cool Bumbulbee and Optimus Prime were. And I just thought to myself, "That's what it's all about". It's sad so many TF and TMNT fans on these forums have lost that, or at least the appreciation of it.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nakobass

I remember coming out of TF Dark of the Moon, and two little kids were jumping up and down saying how cool Bumbulbee and Optimus Prime were. And I just thought to myself, "That's what it's all about". It's sad so many TF and TMNT fans on these forums have lost that, or at least the appreciation of it.

Dude please. I took my nephew to watch The Last Air Bender movie and there was kids excited about that too. Did that make it a good movie or something fans of the cartoon were proud of?

There were some very cool moments in the TF movies. You're disappointed that we won't sacrifice our personal integrity for wanting a good movie out of things we are fans about? That we shouldn't have a negative opinion about a movie because its all about the kids? I don't go telling my nephew or any of my friends kids that the movies were crap, instead I buy them the toys and show them cartoons of the different versions of the show.

But to say we've lost our appreciation is quite the accusation when we all know Bay's movies were nothing more than a popcorn flick full of explosions. Turns out you can't go wrong with giant Robots and explosions. A negative opinion about the movie is us being honest with critique not us losing touch with why its fun to go to the movies.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I guess no one likes Black Transformers.

THEY FUCKING CARRIED THAT MOVIE.

Hey! We dont say "black" we say "Urban-Cybertronian".

[Crazy Jetty]

I just personally think the TF movies have absolutely no substance what so ever. It's all flash and bang, and nothing of substance.
Even worse, no substance with a design preference that I do not find the least bit enjoyable. So I don't even find the films visually appealing. I don't care how many billions of dollars they made. That means absolutely nothing to me, and does not make a movie I find to be very bad, good.
So "They made billions of dollars" as an argument is moot.

Worse yet, it's left us stuck with this godaweful asthetic everywhere. IDW made all their comics change to something simular. TF Prime is movie asthetic (Worse than movie, actually. Because the prime asthetic is a very dulled down movie. They just look boring.)

And the movies did not save this franchise. The franchise had to be doing really well in the first place to GET to be turned into a movie with a $200m diollar budget. So if the movies did not exist, the state of the franchise would be different, but it would exist.

As for TMNT, at this stage everyone is overreacting, in either direction. People are either too freaked out, or too defencive.
For good or bad, Bay is a proven liar. He also at any given time has a very little understanding over the subject matter he talks about, and ends up bullshitting and talking out his ass.
He's also just a producer, and as has been pointed out is only attached because it's his production house.
It's way too early to freak out, or defend anything.
Rule #1: Michael Bay lies. He likes to get fans into a tizzy by spreading misinformation. Even after RotF was released, he still claimed Megatron was not in the movie.
Rule #2: Michael Bay usually doesn't know what he's talking about. There's lots of stuff he's said about TFs that he never really seemed to get.
The turtles may or may not be aliens. The draft he saw they may have been, but they may already have been revised three times since.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

Hey! We dont say "black" we say "Urban-Cybertronian".

Why is there no "like" option on this board?

[nakobass]

How do you make a good movie out of Transformers or TMNT for that matter? Make it like The Dark Knight? Or Lord of the Rings? Is that even possible? Has there ever been a quote on quote Great Transformers Movie or TMNT Movie? Campared to say movies who Fans consider great like, The Dark Knight, Iron Man, or any movie us the fans consider great. Can you make the Transfomers or TMNT as good or great as those movies? I say it's impossible. I say it's impossible to make a Transformers movie any better then TF1, or TMNT movie better then TMNT 1. It's like trying to make the Smurfs, or He-man into a great movie, it's damn near impossible. That's what's been bugging me so long when fans say they want a great movie out of this brand or that brand. It's just near impossible to make those brands into a great movie. The best you can hope for is it gets some elements from those brands into the movie. You can't hope for more then that. And the main reason is, as Fans we already know the Characters, The Plotlines, we know everything about those brands. But movies are made for the general public, not for fans. No wonder fans hate these movies and will continue to hate them in the future. Thank You, I think I finally have my answer.

[DogFashionDisco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nakobass

How do you make a good movie out of Transformers or TMNT for that matter? Make it like The Dark Knight? Or Lord of the Rings? Is that even possible? Has there ever been a quote on quote Great Transformers Movie or TMNT Movie? Campared to say movies who Fans consider great like, The Dark Knight, Iron Man, or any movie us the fans consider great. Can you make the Transfomers or TMNT as good or great as those movies? I say it's impossible. I say it's impossible to make a Transformers movie any better then TF1, or TMNT movie better then TMNT 1. It's like trying to make the Smurfs, or He-man into a great movie, it's damn near impossible. That's what's been bugging me so long when fans say they want a great movie out of this brand or that brand. It's just near impossible to make those brands into a great movie. The best you can hope for is it gets some elements from those brands into the movie. You can't hope for more then that. And the main reason is, as Fans we already know the Characters, The Plotlines, we know everything about those brands. But movies are made for the general public, not for fans. No wonder fans hate these movies and will continue to hate them in the future. Thank You, I think I finally have my answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogFashionDisco

Plus, trying to tackle something like Transformers or TMNT isn't an easy task, so in many ways I'd rather leave those "franchises" alone and be left with fond memories rather than bastardized Hollywood interpretations that only serve to undermine the things that engaged my imagination growing up.

C'mon, I have already addressed this.

[nakobass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogFashionDisco

C'mon, I have already addressed this.

I know, but it just hit me. Think about it, They will continue making movies out of these brands, so why get so upset if you know they are not going to be that good. Even if Bay had nothing to do with TMNT, we all know deep down it's not going to be that good. What more could they possibly do to the Ninja Turtles that hasn't already been done already. Thinking that way, The Alien thing actaully makes sense now.

[Crazy Jetty]

No, you can never get a universally agreed "great" movie (Outside of The Dark Knight.)
But it's not unreasonable for people to hope for or expect a Good movie. "Good" being decent plot, decent characterization, and decent writing. In three TF movies, we have not met one of these conditions.
We have seen that this goal is possible. Ironman, Ironman 2, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Thor, Spiderman, (New) Star Trek. All are great examples of movies that have managed to be open and inviting to the general public, while pleasing fans.
They all hit the benchmarks of what all movie goers expect from any movie they pay $10+ for. Decent writing, decent characterization, and a decent plot.

Just because someone is a fan of a franchise, and you personally expect said fan to just roll over and happily except a movie that misses the benchmarks everyone universally (whether they're a fan or not) excpects to see from a movie is a virtual slap in the face. And pretty damned insulting.

[nakobass]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Jetty

No, you can never get a universally agreed "great" movie (Outside of The Dark Knight.)
But it's not unreasonable for people to hope for or expect a Good movie. "Good" being decent plot, decent characterization, and decent writing. In three TF movies, we have not met one of these conditions.
We have seen that this goal is possible. Ironman, Ironman 2, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Thor, Spiderman, (New) Star Trek. All are great examples of movies that have managed to be open and inviting to the general public, while pleasing fans.
They all hit the benchmarks of what all movie goers expect from any movie they pay $10+ for. Decent writing, decent characterization, and a decent plot.

Just because someone is a fan of a franchise, and you personally expect said fan to just roll over and happily except a movie that misses the benchmarks everyone universally (whether they're a fan or not) excpects to see from a movie is a virtual slap in the face. And pretty damned insulting.

Star Trek, Star Trek fans picked that movie apart, and were pissed it rebooted everything. Iron Man 2 got mixed reviews. Decent writing, decent characterization, and a decent plot. My argument is it's impossble to do any better then what's has already been done. Since were on Transformers and TMNT, let's stick with them. Do you honestly think they will get any better in the future doing the things you suggested? How many Transformers should be given decent characterization, Hell they just showed up in the old cartoon. Ninja Turtles, we already know what each turtle is like. Say they reboot TF and TMNT even after these movies. Honestly what more can anyone possible do with them, that hasn't already been done.

[Crazy Jetty]

I'm in a couple trek fanclubs, and no one I know personally has anything terribly negative to say about the new trek. So personal experience is I've not met anyone who didn't enjoy it.
I stick to everything I said. You added nothing that hasn't already been rebutted by myself or others.
It's not unfair of fans to expect a movie that can be enjoyed by fans as well as the general public. It's not unfair of fans to expect a movie to have decent plot/writing/characterization.
And to tell them that's unreasonable, like I said is a slap in the face.
You seem to be pretty damned butthurt that you're in the minority (in this thread) in not liking the TF movies.