[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

I am going on the fact that anyone I have ran into that is into the 2099 series liked Doom 2099 the best,I can do a poll if you would like to prove me right?

Were the people you ran into reading your copies of the book?

Maybe if they had bought their own copies of Doom 2099 Marvel wouldn't have had to cancel this most recent Doom book in order to keep from going bankrupt?

[Spacemafia]

Hahahahahahahaha

[bmorr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

Not recently, I think 5-7 years ago when there were a lot of female books on their own.

Is she one of the main characters in that book? Was tempted to pick it up, but it tied in with Fear Itself and I think Spider-Island so didn't think it was worth it.

yeah ignore those tie ins. the FI book only served to create a new character for villians for hire, coming next week i think. shockers gonna be in it.

[D00MTR0N]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

Were the people you ran into reading your copies of the book?

Maybe if they had bought their own copies of Doom 2099 Marvel wouldn't have had to cancel this most recent Doom book in order to keep from going bankrupt?

I must be foolish to even respond to this ,CLASSIFIED,would you like me to start a poll so as to silence these attempts at starting a flame war?face it,though I have no chart to dig up to defend my comment I bet 9 outa 10 people here would agree with ME that Doom 2099 was the most well written,read and liked comic from the 2099 series,shall I start a poll?

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

I must be foolish to even respond to this ,CLASSIFIED,would you like me to start a poll so as to silence these attempts at starting a flame war?face it,though I have no chart to dig up to defend my comment I bet 9 outa 10 people here would agree with ME that Doom 2099 was the most well written,read and liked comic from the 2099 series,shall I start a poll?

Start a poll, here's the question:

Do you think Marvel cancels books based on projected sales?

Here are the options;

1. Yes, they have been in business a lot longer than I, they must know a thing or two.

2. No, my personal favorite characters would likely outsell everything on the market, but Marvel is stupid and they want people to like Spiderman so that's how they force people to buy it.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus

Too true and I think Storm is leading the Astonishing team. But a bit different when it's not a stand alone book.

Also some posts back, I think I left off Elektra as well being a stand alone female having her own book.

Storm and Quake (Daisy Johnson!) just got the big nod- so I think Stom will be hanging with her new team...


THE AVENGERS!

Also, the ORIGINAL Vision just returned thanks to Tony Stark! none of that candyass Young Avengers Vision, either!

[omega145]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

2. No, my personal favorite characters would likely outsell everything on the market, but Marvel is stupid and they want people to like Spiderman so that's how they force people to buy it.

Bingo, thats the answer to all questions related to this forum. Doom FTW!
:P
Doom would easily defeat all of the Xmen, Avengers, FF4!
Damn, wrong thread....sorry

[CLASSIFIED]

Storm and Quake are both Avengers now, and so is Vision; just in time to fight Ultron.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedup23

Are you one of the board members at Marvel/Disney or something?

I read a heck of a lot, and pay attention to the business actions and why deals were made. The biggest thing that stands out that proves this true is that if disney was meddling, they would have their own people in charge with a new CEO, but that was never the intent anyway. The IPs were and rich story history to tap with regularly created new ones.

Lot of news outlets have covered this before. Bleeding cool themselves keep reiterating the point over and over too because everyone immediately blames marvel or disney in a splattershot assault that includes writers, artists, editors, and more instead of who is responsible.

And yes, some of these titles were selling, some weren't, and some were even on an uptick. Others that don't sell are staying too(Avengers Academy, X-Factor, Generation Hope, among others). So sales really doesn't seem like that much of a factor. Well maybe for GR and Daken, they were plummeting fast in sales, but doom's book and the destroyers book weren't even solicited yet to comic shops. So sales can't be a factor for them at all.


The main sales problem is that the titles aren't reaching above 100k except for certain first issues. Most just stay between the 20,000-70,000 and 70,000 is being nice. Usually it's closer to 50,000.

This is why prices are going up. Titles sell less so price goes up to make up for it which drives more readers away. The thing is they need to learn better longterm plotting, planning, and start getting the stories to the point everyone wants to buy again at a decent price. They also need to stop with these loose hanging going nowhere plot threads. Like Daken hunting bucky, or Daken being the cause of ragnarok, Darkhawk's coma, and god knows how many more that are still in play or just outright forgotten left unresolved. They also need to plot their push of TPBs better. How they could screw up the first X-23 tpb by excluding issue 7 to end it on an artistic note to push the reader into buying the collision tpb is just wtf. Instead they left it on a point that many may feel like not bothering with the rest.

The canon is an issue. No canon and they lose fans, mis-use canon and they lose fans, overuse canon and you alienate new readers. They need to get back to a happy balance of that. Something that can please all, and to say otherwise is just being a lazy writer. They've done it for years before, and even moreso during the 90s boom, so this entire BS laziness excuse of "don't let silly things like canon or characterization get in the way of a good story" is just that. An excuse to be lazy and not bother to know the characters you are writing. (A good story and good character usage are not mutually exclusive.)

The other problem is they've started prepping a new generation audience, and yet have no titles on market that are accessible for them about the characters they've grown to like from SHS or Avengers. Wolverine and the X-Men was a good start though. It's amazing how much my cousin's 7 year old son knows about the characters and who's who just from those toons and some of the movies. WatX-Men so far is a book that his mom wouldn't object to either. This comes back to characterization though as DC just found out with the reactions to starfire and those checking out the book who were titans toon fans as a kid.

So yeah, the comics division has problems that need to be fixed, but at this point would they even listen or just keep using more event bandaids and re-numberings?

So does Marvel know what it's doing better than the rest of us? Some do, some don't. Marvel isn't your normal company though. Their educations vary almost as wildly as the fandoms do, and they have no R&D department like DC does. If it sounds good they do it, if it doesn't, they don't, if it's proven to make money in the past, they keep doing it over and over. It's scary, but it really is that simple with how they work. Okay, a little more complicated than that, but there is no creative oversight other than the editors, writers, and artist/colorist/inker. Which is part of another issue about quality assurance, but that's a whole other thing that involves going on rants about which writers are stretched thin among too many titles, who takes the care to put out the best product they can, and which authors you can tell prefer writing certain titles more than others. (Like Bendis, you can literally feel the love for ultimate spider-man, but avengers... Not so much lately at least. The same could be said with Gillen on X-Men lacking the care off and on while he does amazing work on Journey into Mystery.)

Well, besides the mainstays, but those are called mainstays for a reason.

[Tiberius]

I hope Avengers Accademy gets canceled, but not if they get rid of Hank Pym. If this comic is the only way for Pympster to get face time, then KEEP IT.

[bmorr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I hope Avengers Accademy gets canceled, but not if they get rid of Hank Pym. If this comic is the only way for Pympster to get face time, then KEEP IT.

whatttttttt. AA owns. its the best avengers book out now. until we we see the clusterf*** that was the latest avengers issue with osorn coming out of nowhere in the crowd.

[D00MTR0N]

your laughable classified,and I will not partake in your attempt to bait me into an argument,troll on bud,no ones listening.

[Spacemafia]

Doomtron I have to admit I wasnt a fan of the comic...

[D00MTR0N]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemafia

Doomtron I have to admit I wasnt a fan of the comic...

there will always be a few who dont,no matter.

[Spacemafia]

What did you think about Doom in FF movies?

[D00MTR0N]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacemafia

What did you think about Doom in FF movies?

I was not overly impressed with those movies to begin with,but he was the only thing I could tolerate so idk,I like the look they gave him in the second film tward the end but I really think they can do ALOT better.

btw space,I made a 2099 poll thread,go vote.

[Tiberius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

whatttttttt. AA owns. its the best avengers book out now. until we we see the clusterf*** that was the latest avengers issue with osorn coming out of nowhere in the crowd.

I love the teachers, Giant-Man, Justice, Quicksilver, ect. Hate the students. Mettel is pretty cool though...if he mans up.

[Kaewin]

Maybe the could get Guardian to join the team as a teacher, it looks like he needs a job.

Pisses me off too Tiberius

[bmorr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I love the teachers, Giant-Man, Justice, Quicksilver, ect. Hate the students. Mettel is pretty cool though...if he mans up.

hopefully the new students will be of more interest. im so happy they brought back butterball. he had a pretty emotional sendoff during the initiative.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by D00MTR0N

your laughable classified,and I will not partake in your attempt to bait me into an argument,troll on bud,no ones listening.

If you'd like to debate, then I'm down for that.

What would you like to debate about?

Whether or not Marvel is losing money?

Whether or not Marvel cancels books based on projected sales?

Whether or not Spiderman 2099 was the most popular book in the 2099 line?

Go ahead and pick a topic and take a position.

Regardless of which topic and position you take I'm sure I can win the debate.

[proteus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

siiiigggh.

Damn that looks.....painful,did Puck survive?? That little guy has enough to deal with without an unpleasant case of comic book sales related death,that would REALLY put a downer on your morning....and if he IS dead will that affect his MU figure release??

[Joe Moore]

If the back and forth bickering and trolling does not stop, this thread will be closed and infractions handed out to all involved.

[Fedup23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

I read a heck of a lot, and pay attention to the business actions and why deals were made. The biggest thing that stands out that proves this true is that if disney was meddling, they would have their own people in charge with a new CEO, but that was never the intent anyway. The IPs were and rich story history to tap with regularly created new ones.

Lot of news outlets have covered this before. Bleeding cool themselves keep reiterating the point over and over too because everyone immediately blames marvel or disney in a splattershot assault that includes writers, artists, editors, and more instead of who is responsible.
I
And yes, some of these titles were selling, some weren't, and some were even on an uptick. Others that don't sell are staying too(Avengers Academy, X-Factor, Generation Hope, among others). So sales really doesn't seem like that much of a factor. Well maybe for GR and Daken, they were plummeting fast in sales, but doom's book and the destroyers book weren't even solicited yet to comic shops. So sales can't be a factor for them at all.


The main sales problem is that the titles aren't reaching above 100k except for certain first issues. Most just stay between the 20,000-70,000 and 70,000 is being nice. Usually it's closer to 50,000.

This is why prices are going up. Titles sell less so price goes up to make up for it which drives more readers away. The thing is they need to learn better longterm plotting, planning, and start getting the stories to the point everyone wants to buy again at a decent price. They also need to stop with these loose hanging going nowhere plot threads. Like Daken hunting bucky, or Daken being the cause of ragnarok, Darkhawk's coma, and god knows how many more that are still in play or just outright forgotten left unresolved. They also need to plot their push of TPBs better. How they could screw up the first X-23 tpb by excluding issue 7 to end it on an artistic note to push the reader into buying the collision tpb is just wtf. Instead they left it on a point that many may feel like not bothering with the rest.

The canon is an issue. No canon and they lose fans, mis-use canon and they lose fans, overuse canon and you alienate new readers. They need to get back to a happy balance of that. Something that can please all, and to say otherwise is just being a lazy writer. They've done it for years before, and even moreso during the 90s boom, so this entire BS laziness excuse of "don't let silly things like canon or characterization get in the way of a good story" is just that. An excuse to be lazy and not bother to know the characters you are writing. (A good story and good character usage are not mutually exclusive.)

The other problem is they've started prepping a new generation audience, and yet have no titles on market that are accessible for them about the characters they've grown to like from SHS or Avengers. Wolverine and the X-Men was a good start though. It's amazing how much my cousin's 7 year old son knows about the characters and who's who just from those toons and some of the movies. WatX-Men so far is a book that his mom wouldn't object to either. This comes back to characterization though as DC just found out with the reactions to starfire and those checking out the book who were titans toon fans as a kid.

So yeah, the comics division has problems that need to be fixed, but at this point would they even listen or just keep using more event bandaids and re-numberings?

So does Marvel know what it's doing better than the rest of us? Some do, some don't. Marvel isn't your normal company though. Their educations vary almost as wildly as the fandoms do, and they have no R&D department like DC does. If it sounds good they do it, if it doesn't, they don't, if it's proven to make money in the past, they keep doing it over and over. It's scary, but it really is that simple with how they work. Okay, a little more complicated than that, but there is no creative oversight other than the editors, writers, and artist/colorist/inker. Which is part of another issue about quality assurance, but that's a whole other thing that involves going on rants about which writers are stretched thin among too many titles, who takes the care to put out the best product they can, and which authors you can tell prefer writing certain titles more than others. (Like Bendis, you can literally feel the love for ultimate spider-man, but avengers... Not so much lately at least. The same could be said with Gillen on X-Men lacking the care off and on while he does amazing work on Journey into Mystery.)

Well, besides the mainstays, but those are called mainstays for a reason.

You seem to know exactly how Marvel can run a better business..I dare say that it is very different than your "simple" solutions. I am not bagging on your ideas..you have said thing that I think are valid..but if running a publishing company was as easy as people in comic chat rooms seem to believe then I think a company that has been in business for 70+ years would have figured it out too. There are a ton of problems in the industry..from printers inflated costs to the evil monopoly that is Diamond distributing (they make more per issue sold than the publisher) to the fact that kids just don't read comics anymore. DC has been around for decades too and they went all in with an act of desperation. It has worked for them in the short run...but do you think that in 2 years 60% of "The New 52" will still be getting published..I don't. A LOT of that stuff is bad. But its selling because people are going to give it a few tries before dropping.

My point is that it is simple to point at marvel as the main problem..just like many people on this message board know exactly how Hasbro should run their company. In actuality none of us has a single clue about what it takes to run one of these huge corporations and be profitable. Not finishing a story about Nova being in a coma or Hasbro releasing another 3 spiderman figures next year are great places for us to chime in..but they are less significant to the big picture than we like to think.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I love the teachers, Giant-Man, Justice, Quicksilver, ect. Hate the students. Mettel is pretty cool though...if he mans up.

No way- they got rid of their one crybaby (Veil) nad now the team rocks- we just saw Finesse go up against Magneto and knock him in the head- twice!- when Mags started to dress down Quicksilver!
That was awesome!

It's the most suprising book in that, I generally dont like any of the Avengers involved..and one on one, each of the student characters is pretty lacking, but together, it really works!
A well written title every month!

Y'know...reading last week's titles (last night)...the Marvel titles I read kicked ass!
-Storm, Quake and Vision are on the Avengers team.
-The ongoing Punisher title is ...mind blowingly awesome.
-Avengers Academy was good, as always
-Fear Itself 7.3- starring Iron man getting beat by and talking trash to Odin was flippin amazing- really showcasing Odin's crazy magical might.
-Venom was brutal and brilliant- that's marvel's sleeper title of greatness (must make a custom Venom!)
-X Force and Journey Into Mystery remain the best comics anyone is making right now in any company.
Even Iron Man is FINALLY becoming a good title again as the Mandarin and Zeke Stan are working together and hooking up goons like the Blizzard, Mauler and Living Laser to take on Tony....wile slandering him in the press!

Sure, there's all kinds of shit being put out too- that awful race to get the Fear itself hammers is really REALLY crappy, Daken is unreadable (and cancelled), Moon Knight is just as bad- and I'm sure about to get axed, Iron Man 2.0 is an awful, disjointed, boring read and on it's last legs, Despite the amazing art, Captan America's story is lame as hell...

But if you only collect the good stuff, there's some real quality among the garbage.

[D00MTR0N]

I cannot remember what the names are of the rest but while at my LCS I was talking to the dude who worked there and he looked it up and there were a bunch more being cancelled,I wil try and find what the other series names are.