[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoodleChow

and jason abbadon- amadeus cho count?


dunno if i'm looking forward to the possibly ridiculous glut of movie spidey figures coming. i'll be shocked if i ever see past wave 2.

Cho kinda counts as an exception to the rule...they went the other direction with him and went for the "amazing at match/geek" angle.
Same for Suzi Endo- though she's closer to a real exception- she's got powers, she asian and she's not some ninja. Super computer hacker kinda fits the geek angle though.

As to upsoming Spidey figures, I'm hoping they at least give us the "one in ten" ratio of villians to crappy Spidey variants we have now- we could finally get a Mysterio or Vulture or something new.

[jamesmruddy]

Miles Morales UCSM Minimate Concept Art | Marvel Images | Downloads & Extras | Marvel.com

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boba Fettuccini

Marvel confirmed he isn't gay a few weeks ago.

That they felt the need to confirm he wasn't only reinforces that he already is.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vimagnum

Did people get really upset when ben reilly took over? I mean come on you know peter is going to come back Brian bendis may have stated that he wasn't but we all know he will and if he does.......SCARLET SPIDER MILES MORALES how awesome would that be.

Original ultimate Parker won't be back. At least not original parker unless they write in some kind of spider-coma story which would be too cliche even for ultimate.

That's the thing with ultimate. Death is Death in it(the offed a long list of characters already that have never been back despite fan outcries, even wolverine is dead now). There is no coming back. It's the one marvel universe where events once in play, stay intact unless there can be a real world driven type way to do otherwise. It's about growing from what's happened.

Now they could bring in a new parker clone, but in all likelihood Morales is here to stay. In the first issue they really pushed the grounded in reality bit too by using real things he would face in the real world. Like New York's school lottery.

I gotta admit, that was my only concern. That they would go all cliche on it, but thankfully so far they haven't. Heck they even brought in the Prowler!

I do frown on how it was marketed, but I don't think that was intentional and the press sensationalized it more than marvel meant to. Marvel should have reacted more like "Yeah he's black and latino, so what?" when the news did that. Bendis having two adopted children that he wants to write a role-model for makes more sense to me than this being some deliberate PC type move. Plus the new powers are going to be interesting to see as they develop from what was in the story.

Spider-Man has always represented it could be anyone under the mask, that any kid could idolize him or be him, and this just proves that. There are scenes in the spidey-flicks that even relate to this where people are arguing as to what he is under the mask(this is why spidey has a full body suit and mask that shows nothing). He's always just been a kid living in the shadow of with great power comes great responsibility, and chooses to do the right thing with it. In parker's instance it was caused by a tragedy. I also love that they gave credit to where it's due over the idea, and thanked Donald Glover for his campaign and injoke in his sitcom. So I'm indifferent so long as the story and characterization are done well. Which so far, they are.
Besides, Ben Reilly is black in the ultimate universe.
It's one thing to take let's say scott summers, and make him black after he's already white in a story of that universe, but an all new person under the mask gives them liberties to make it anyone they feel like, and really, after the Donald Glover campaign, who didn't see this coming?
Alt reality people from the start though, can be of whatever race or creed they want to write, so long as it's the same from the start and not changed willy nilly randomly. Like 616 fury to ultimate fury. This on the other hand isn't Parker at all, so it gives them free reign to do anything. If they started Parker off in this universe as black, I'd have no problem with that either so long as it was consistent. Which btw, wasn't ultimate Parker Jewish? Or of Jewish descent anyway? So it's not like he's ever been the complete same as 616 parker.

As for a base figure, I'd say really any spidey figure that's lean and extremely poseable. Maybe Future Foundation spidey? Though I guess that one would be too bulky for this kid's age. If you go through the numerous spidey body types in the spidey line you might find something that could work. They seem more lean than the MU ones, and more pose-able in some instances.

For the record on the sales though.
They've been extremely strong on this title already. The digital sales alone show he'll be around awhile. I'm not stating the at comic shop sales as they aren't out until the end of the month for the Diamond orders and first issue sales are always higher but taper off. Digital sales on the other hand don't have that resale market that the physical comic does(the reason #1's do well). So they are a good gauge of how he's doing for now. If they stay strong for issue 2 and the physical comic sales are still high, then yes he'll be around for a good long while until he meets the same fate as half of the ultimate universe has already met. So be prepared to get used to Miles. It looks like he's here to stay.

616 Ben Reilly as spider-man had two things against him. Though I loved him as spider-man, others didn't like the stories with how it was told, and coming off of overtly long clone saga didn't help. Sales dipped, but no one knows for certain if it was bad stories, bad timing, or fans adverse to the idea of anyone other than real peter parker under the mask. Personally, I had more of an adverse reaction to the disolution of the marriage than I did ben reilly as spider-man, or even Miles Morales as ultimate spider-man. The marriage was the cornerstone of hope for geeks that it gets better once you're out of highschool.

[NoodleChow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

Cho kinda counts as an exception to the rule...they went the other direction with him and went for the "amazing at match/geek" angle.
Same for Suzi Endo- though she's closer to a real exception- she's got powers, she asian and she's not some ninja. Super computer hacker kinda fits the geek angle though.

As to upsoming Spidey figures, I'm hoping they at least give us the "one in ten" ratio of villians to crappy Spidey variants we have now- we could finally get a Mysterio or Vulture or something new.

oh man i almost forgot about jubilee too. as long as they release a good venom in wave 1 or 2, i'd be happy. otherwise i expect to be teased with sweet villains in wave 3 and 4 only to have my stores never stock em. =(

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoodleChow

oh man i almost forgot about jubilee too. as long as they release a good venom in wave 1 or 2, i'd be happy. otherwise i expect to be teased with sweet villains in wave 3 and 4 only to have my stores never stock em. =(

Surge is Asian and doesn't fit any of the above criteria or stereotypes of Geek/Smart/martial arts/ninja etc. Though they did give her blue hair. And there's Karma (is that her name?) in new mutants too.

Marvel probably has others too if you look.

I off and on kind of agree with others though on the name. I kind of wish they used Miguel O'Hara instead, but that might have been overkill. So I guess Miles is better.

[vimagnum]

In the first issue they talk about having Peters D.N.A. so they could clone him but that has already been done in this universe.....4 times at once.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

Surge is Asian and doesn't fit any of the above criteria or stereotypes of Geek/Smart/martial arts/ninja etc. Though they did give her blue hair. And there's Karma (is that her name?) in new mutants too.

Marvel probably has others too if you look.

I off and on kind of agree with others though on the name. I kind of wish they used Miguel O'Hara instead, but that might have been overkill. So I guess Miles is better.

Never heard of "Surge"..sounds like a sports drink.
What's he from?

Thinking on it, Karma from New Mutants fits the bill too, but they also recently made arbitrary decision to make her a lesbian (same with Julie Power) in a "just because boys like lesbians" move.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

Spider-Man has always represented it could be anyone under the mask, that any kid could idolize him or be him, and this just proves that. There are scenes in the spidey-flicks that even relate to this where people are arguing as to what he is under the mask(this is why spidey has a full body suit and mask that shows nothing).

I was hoping the new Ultimate Spiderman's identity under the mask wouldn't have been revealed right away, if ever.

Had they done that, what you are claiming Spider-Man has always represented would have been achieved more perfectly.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

I was hoping the new Ultimate Spiderman's identity under the mask wouldn't have been revealed right away, if ever.

Had they done that, what you are claiming Spider-Man has always represented would have been achieved more perfectly.

See.. that would have been an incredibly gutsy and innovative thing- do the title with everything being based on the reactions of the supporting cast and possibly build a mystery as to who the new guy really is.

Instead they'll rehash old Spidey stories with a modern twist or mine the headlines for whatever is trendy.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

I was hoping the new Ultimate Spiderman's identity under the mask wouldn't have been revealed right away, if ever.

Had they done that, what you are claiming Spider-Man has always represented would have been achieved more perfectly.

Definitely agree with that, but the modern world sadly is all about immediate gratification. I don't think people could have waited longer than one issue.

But nah, it's not a claim, it actually is what spidey represents. It's mentioned throughout the classic run too of pre-80s, we just in modern times automaticly put peter parker with spider-man as it's information the audience knows and has always held true. The commentary is in the civilians of the comic though that don't have that outside the page knowledge.

It's J.J.J.'s main complaint towards spidey in classic times. He hides his identity behind a mask, you don't even know what race or creed he is let alone who he is. Whereas a masked person like steve rogers is an american icon to him. Even though Rogers wears a mask, his identity is open to the public. Classic Marvel went so far as to even push this in the 60s and 70s superhero toons pre-amazing friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

See.. that would have been an incredibly gutsy and innovative thing- do the title with everything being based on the reactions of the supporting cast and possibly build a mystery as to who the new guy really is.

Instead they'll rehash old Spidey stories with a modern twist or mine the headlines for whatever is trendy.

See what I said above about immediate gratification, but I don't think Marvel is doing this for headlines. That's the PR department. I think Bendis is genuinely just writing this for his kids who are black. For that, he should be admired. What father wouldn't want to make their child's hero more relatable to them? Bendis just happens to be in a spot where he can do it, whereas the rest of the world has to find one to relate to. He gets to make the most iconic one just for them, the rest of us just get to go for the ride. The PR department definitely fubared this up though, but like I said before that falls more on the news sensationalizing it, and Marvel's PR department. Everyone else is just stating what it is with the questions asked. It got so bad on the sensationalizing that some rags even twisted the artists words about why does it matter into it being ZOMG new Spidey is gay!!!

[Jason Abbadon]

Intenions aside, it's not gutsy if he is keeping the same Spidey formula that's been ingrained since the 60's.
If it's the same old same old, it's...well it's old.

And I sorta have issues with white guys writing black characters if (and I'm not saying it'll happen here) every issue has a mandatory "Did you know?" feel to it because the writer is not writing from experience, but rather from second hand accounts or worse, TV or movie depictictions of what being black/hispanic/gay/ska fan is realy all about.

I just prefer writers to write what they know, y'know?

Not that I'm buying this book anyway- I never got into the Ultimates and my roommate told me (then made me read) the abomination Ultimates 3 was.

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

Intenions aside, it's not gutsy if he is keeping the same Spidey formula that's been ingrained since the 60's.
If it's the same old same old, it's...well it's old.

And I sorta have issues with white guys writing black characters if (and I'm not saying it'll happen here) every issue has a mandatory "Did you know?" feel to it because the writer is not writing from experience, but rather from second hand accounts or worse, TV or movie depictictions of what being black/hispanic/gay/ska fan is realy all about.

I just prefer writers to write what they know, y'know?

Not that I'm buying this book anyway- I never got into the Ultimates and my roommate told me (then made me read) the abomination Ultimates 3 was.

Ultimates 3 was definitely an abomination. Can't argue that, but I was pleasantly surprised by the spider-man issue and ultimate fallout. I am generally one of the first people to call marvel out on screw ups, but this was far from that. It didn't read like a second hand story either, but more towards genuine fears a parent might have about what their children may face and the hopes they have for them. I could genuinely see the parents or miles being of any creed or race in this story with the hopes and dreams thrown on him and his child like innocence of not getting what's going on or the whys.

It read very much like a father concerned over his children, and not like a marketing stunt. So far it hasn't touched any of the previous spidey points either, but I too share that concern. So far it's come across as very real, circumstantial (bad or good depending on how view it)luck, and moderately fresh and new. Now if it stays that way? That's anyone's guess. But yeah, my biggest worry was the usage of cliches and second hand stories you mentioned. Somehow rather miraculously it avoids all that for now. The child eyes of Miles himself convey a naivete to the world that really works in its favor that parker lacked with his initial greed driven reasonings and then tragedy driven heroics. So far at least, the only thing that's the same is the with great power comes responsibility. But without that, it wouldn't be spider-man. Everything else is different so far, but again who knows if it'll stay that way. Even the powers seem to be different with good story-centric reasonings on why.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

But nah, it's not a claim, it actually is what spidey represents.

A claim is something someone states to be true.

To me Spidey represents a wisecracking super hero that fights bad guys, has amazing friends, and loads of super awesome action figures.

Peter Parker always seems to have a ton of personal problems, something a lot of us can relate too.

If they didn't reveal who New Spidey was before the first issue, if at all, I would have picked up the book.

The longer I had to wait before finding out, the longer I would have likely read the book. Heck, they might have even hooked me before the big reveal!

Because they revealed New Spidey's identity before the first issue I didn't bother. I've seen ethnic versions of traditionaly white superheros before... its a repeat... in order to pick up another Ultimate title they would need to try something new...

Like maybe an original ethnic character that has his own identity as opposed to one that borrows their identity from an already established character. I imagine there are minorities out there that find this practice of colorizing white superheroes insulting.

Oh, and I liked Ultimates 3, reminded me of Image comics.

[warmachine6]

what happened to peter parker ??

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

A claim is something someone states to be true.

To me Spidey represents a wisecracking super hero that fights bad guys, has amazing friends, and loads of super awesome action figures.

Peter Parker always seems to have a ton of personal problems, something a lot of us can relate too.

If they didn't reveal who New Spidey was before the first issue, if at all, I would have picked up the book.

The longer I had to wait before finding out, the longer I would have likely read the book. Heck, they might have even hooked me before the big reveal!

Because they revealed New Spidey's identity before the first issue I didn't bother. I've seen ethnic versions of traditionaly white superheros before... its a repeat... in order to pick up another Ultimate title they would need to try something new...

Like maybe an original ethnic character that has his own identity as opposed to one that borrows their identity from an already established character. I imagine there are minorities out there that find this practice of colorizing white superheroes insulting.

Oh, and I liked Ultimates 3, reminded me of Image comics.

I agree on all that except ultimates 3, but that doesn't mean that's what spider-man is supposed to represent, which is why I comment back towards his origins and the early issues prior to his action figures, and really witty repertoire. As of the mid 70s and 80s parker spider-man started becoming more towards what we see him as today, but in original execution he was more towards what I said in the meta commentary by using the civilians of the world. Then they started making the direct commentary on it in the 80s with the kid that was sick that spidey visited and the kid just assuming spidey was black.

I can see why people find the colorizing insulting, but the execution of it is what determines that. I'm not going to write off a comic as that without reading it first. This surprised me in how far away from that it was. Just like I don't view Nick Fury as that either.

As for prolonging the identity reveal. Modern audiences would have been pissed, and dropped the book entirely as has been shown with other comics. The modern immediate gratification of the world sadly ruins that notion of comic story telling. Plus I can see why they didn't do that for the Spidey comic itself as it'd be hard to tell the dual sides of the story from the start without revealing who he is. That would mean they would have had to wait on the Spidey title, and not do the reveal in ultimate fallout. Which would mean a different kind of title, or a different kind of way to start the mystery without a title to push it which creates problems. Spider-man is a humanized hero, so not having that person side of the story and just the superheroics would have left it rather cold and unfeeling.

It's complicated on how to approach it with all these things in mind, and in many ways feels like those are the exact reason bendis more or less said "screw it, we'll just do this in a traditional story telling manner instead of a few issues in going 5 months backwards in time." Which is also a story telling mechanic many are sick of now after its overabundant usage.

It's kind of like how red hulk and red she-hulk were over-milked on the who are they mystery. Personally, I didn't start picking up their stories until I found out who they were, and liked the idea of it because of who they were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by warmachine6

what happened to peter parker ??

In the ultimate universe, not the normal standard 616 marvel universe, Norman osborn killed him. Peter sacrificed himself to save his aunt may, bringing his final act full circle in how his arrogance and greed caused him to not save his uncle ben. The selflessness he learned since made him sacrifice himself to save his aunt.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflakian

As for prolonging the identity reveal. Modern audiences would have been pissed, and dropped the book entirely as has been shown with other comics. The modern immediate gratification of the world sadly ruins that notion of comic story telling. Plus I can see why they didn't do that for the Spidey comic itself as it'd be hard to tell the dual sides of the story from the start without revealing who he is.

I don't agree with your generalizations about modern audiences.

I think with the right author, the story could have been pulled off.

I think they did the reveal pre-release to generate buzz for the flagship book in their failing universe.

I also think "Who is Spiderman?" would have made a more compelling, sustainable, and sellable story than "Spiderman isn't Peter Parker!".

[Snowflakian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

I don't agree with your generalizations about modern audiences.

I think with the right author, the story could have been pulled off.

I think they did the reveal pre-release to generate buzz for the flagship book in their failing universe.

I also think "Who is Spiderman?" would have made a more compelling, sustainable, and sellable story than "Spiderman isn't Peter Parker!".

I agree on that, but the generalization of modern audiences isn't without its support. You can see it everywhere from transformers fans to comic fans who get pissy at the slightest drop of anything that means they have to wait.

I do think the public relations department completely fubared up the potential here, but thankfully sales so far are pretty strong, and the issue itself was quite amazing. The problem is though like I said, spider-man is the epitome of the humanized hero. So having him do superheroics without the human interest angle would defeat the purpose of his own title. Now if they did it as an ultimates type side story, or better in fallout instead of just having the reveal there and saved the reveal for the end of the first issue where miles just realized he had an ability at all. That could have really worked. That would have made more people question who is spider-man, and why are we reading about this kid when the prowler is in this same comic?

I do appreciate the fact they didn't go for a fractured flashback type story though and are going forward with it as 'real time'.

The thing is though you have to understand a writer's choices for a comic, and then how it's related to the media at large are two different things. That's the public relations department who are trying to find headlines and boost sales. The writer is just trying to write the best story they can. Two different jobs, but the writer gets the blame for it as it's his name being thrown out there even though it's the public relations people that are the ones feeding it to news organizations to get the headlines and the writer is just strung along for the ride. You also have to understand it's the news media that writes the headlines and puts the spin on the topic. Where the writer may want to just talk about this new idea that they think is amazing, it's the news media that spins it, asks the questions, and then prints it with how they think it'll sell. It's the public relations department that has to figure out the angle to get the news media interested. It's sensationalism essentially, but that's not the writer's fault. It's the other arms of the company that feed into that.