[Byrnes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordbest

If you're claiming that the majority of the comics fanbase is 30-50 men, I'd be interested to see your sources for that. Even if it were true, it is a poor business model that panders to an ageing, shrinking demographic at the expense of newer ones.
Not to mention that according to the industry, the fastest growing comic demographic in recent times is 17-33 year old women, and others claim 45% of comic fans are already women.

None of that has anything to do with political correctness, though. You're complaining comics aren't the same now as they were when you were growing up, fair enough. But they weren't the same then as they were 30 years before that, either. Stories change to reflect the changes in the society that spawns them, as old stigmas and prejudice fall away the stories change to reflect that. It isn't some kind of political bias, it is popular culture reflecting the society that spawns it.

All I can tell you is what I see at the comics store and who's putting their money up on the counter. If there is a new generation of people ordering stuff online I have no idea about that. I'm sure there are a good amount who do the online service. I never said anything about women or men. My bigger problem is the way the stuff is written. I can read a comic in about 2 min these days. There is no real story or communication it's about 10 words per page and about 20 pages.

[Struggler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

So I finished Inferno last night and overall, it was on convoluted cluster****. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy it, because I did, but it was way overly complicated than it needed to be and like I said before, X-Men and demons don't mix very well, especially on a grand scale as this. This storyline should have been centered around the super natural characters like Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange while the X-Men and X-Factor only dealt with Madelynn and Mr Sinister.

Since you are reading 90's stuff, if you are interested in a supernatural crossover, you may want to look into Rise of the midnight sons. It's a team-up with both ghost riders(johnny blaze and danny ketch), blade & the nightstalkers and some other characters including dr strange.

[lordbest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrnes

All I can tell you is what I see at the comics store and who's putting their money up on the counter. If there is a new generation of people ordering stuff online I have no idea about that. I'm sure there are a good amount who do the online service. I never said anything about women or men. My bigger problem is the way the stuff is written. I can read a comic in about 2 min these days. There is no real story or communication it's about 10 words per page and about 20 pages.

That's anecdotal evidence. My local store was opened by a married couple, is now run by one of their women staff who bought them out and I see lots of women and girls in their whenever I visit. That's anecdotal evidence too. The industry has been saying consistently that women are the fastest growing demographic, and they are the ones in the position to know, or to have paid for research to find out.

Your complaints about the writing are perfectly valid, of course. They don't have anything to do with political correctness though.

[Boy Blunder]

...sometimes, I forget that comics talk in here brings out sides of people that are not the most fun to see.

Gonna try to bring it back to figures then.

ANYWAYS so I think Kate Bishop might be a really good base body for a Blink custom - smaller than many other female figures, larger than the teen females, has both a gripping and an open hand (perfect for energy javelin poses) and even has boot cuffs. Thoughts?

[donmeca2020]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrnes

All I can tell you is what I see at the comics store and who's putting their money up on the counter. If there is a new generation of people ordering stuff online I have no idea about that. I'm sure there are a good amount who do the online service. I never said anything about women or men. My bigger problem is the way the stuff is written. I can read a comic in about 2 min these days. There is no real story or communication it's about 10 words per page and about 20 pages.

I agree with you 100%. Current comics specifically Marvel aren't all they used to be. Marvel books can be read as you said less then 5 mins. While theyre quality of stories and the page count of each book has went down, their prices have continued to be on the pricey side...
Why do you think DC has dominated them in sales the past 5 months? Lowered their prices and have good writers,artists and the stories have been excellent !!

[TheBlueMarvel]

@Red
Thanks for the compliment, Red. I thought the same thing when I posed her! lol

@lordbest
I agree entirely with your demographic arguments. Marvel's not making these decisions based on political leanings. Marvel is making these decisions based on hard data regarding the changing demographics of the fanbase, country, and world (a reality that a number of people are struggling with for idiosyncratic reasons). It's a business move. Plain and simple. That said, I wouldn't dismiss all of the complaints we "old guys" are leveling at the current state of Marvel. Continuity is taking a tremendous hit in this rush by Marvel to come up to speed with the times. Not to mention, there is a gimmick laden quality to some of what is going on.

The gimmick, in my opinion, is "lets simply change the flagship characters to be more representative of the fanbase/society and do so by cannibalizing what came before." To me, that's inorganic and lazy. I'm all for more diversity in comics, I'm an African American Marvel/DC fan who's been reading since the late 70's. I've been excited by every new hero introduced to me, but especially excited by heroes of color because they aren't as plentiful (and obviously, they are representative of my ethnic subset of American culture). In my estimation, the development of a more diverse creative and editorial staff is the only way a publisher like Marvel will successfully address targeting current and future demographics. In this manner, they can create 'new' ideas that don't alienate 'old' sensibilities.

My avatar is Adam Brashear. Truth be told, I like the character, but he isn't my favorite superhero. What initially drew me to Blue Marvel is that he is what I always wanted as a child. A black Superman. Conversely, I'm not a huge fan of Calvin Ellis, the actual black Superman. The reason for this dichotomy is that I've matured as a reader and individual. I have come to realize that I don't want "Superman" (insert whatever here - Batman, Cap, Thor, etc) to be African American, I want a black superhero with his/her own thoughtful backstory on the same level as that of Superman. Not someone to replace the icon, but someone that stands in equal regard with equal potential to become a future 'icon.'

I get the legacy argument that has become popular, although I think it's often extrapolated a bit too widely. Again, in my opinion, when cosmetic changes are made to flagship characters, it smacks of a cop-out. Marvel and DC can create universes/pantheons that reflect our changing world without cheaply altering the wonderful history they've created. They just need to be courageous enough to develop new characters and resolved enough to allow these characters the time to catch on (ergo they don't cancel the titles when sales are flagging). I hope you can understand what I'm saying. I don't HATE what's going on at Marvel, it just seems a tad superficial and rudderless.





...damn MCU figs, they're starting to grow on me.

[Exodus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Blunder

...sometimes, I forget that comics talk in here brings out sides of people that are not the most fun to see.

Gonna try to bring it back to figures then.

ANYWAYS so I think Kate Bishop might be a really good base body for a Blink custom - smaller than many other female figures, larger than the teen females, has both a gripping and an open hand (perfect for energy javelin poses) and even has boot cuffs. Thoughts?

We do have an area for comic discussion, but doesn't seem to get touched on for some reason....
http://www.toyark.com/comic-books-an...ls-discussion/

Quote:

Originally Posted by donmeca2020

I agree with you 100%. Current comics specifically Marvel aren't all they used to be. Marvel books can be read as you said less then 5 mins. While theyre quality of stories and the page count of each book has went down, their prices have continued to be on the pricey side...
Why do you think DC has dominated them in sales the past 5 months? Lowered their prices and have good writers,artists and the stories have been excellent !!

That's good to see, keep Marvel on their toes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Struggler

Since you are reading 90's stuff, if you are interested in a supernatural crossover, you may want to look into Rise of the midnight sons. It's a team-up with both ghost riders(johnny blaze and danny ketch), blade & the nightstalkers and some other characters including dr strange.

I used to have that series, was actually a good read that's the GR I like too...

[lordbest]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

@Red
@lordbest
I agree entirely with your demographic arguments. Marvel's not making these decisions based on political leanings. Marvel is making these decisions based on hard data regarding the changing demographics of the fanbase, country, and world (a reality that a number of people are struggling with for idiosyncratic reasons). It's a business move. Plain and simple. That said, I wouldn't dismiss all of the complaints we "old guys" are levying at the current state of Marvel. Continuity is taking a tremendous hit in this rush by Marvel to come up to speed with the times. Not to mention, there is a gimmick laden quality to some of what is going on.

The gimmick, in my opinion, is "lets simply change the flagship characters to be more representative of the fanbase/society and do so by cannibalizing what came before." To me, that's inorganic and lazy. I'm all for more diversity in comics, I'm an African American Marvel/DC fan who's been reading since the late 70's. I've been excited by every new hero introduced to me, but especially excited by heroes of color because they weren't as plentiful (and obviously, they were representative of my ethnic subset of American culture). In my estimation, the development of a more diverse creative and editorial staff is the way a publisher like Marvel will successfully address targeting current and future demographics. In this manner, they can create 'new' ideas that don't alienate 'old' sensibilities.

Exactly yes, and the reason I dislike talk of "PC agenda" isn't because every attempt a diversity is good or above criticism (there is some very compelling criticism from African American comic fans about Riri Williams for example), but that but dismissing efforts at better diversity as political you are de-legitimizing and dismissing the right of people to have stories that reflect them. None of us choose to be born how we are, and no one deserves to have their presence in stories turned into a political issue when it isn't.
I'm certainly not dismissing all the complaints, and I'm not saying that someone who misses the way comics were in the 70s is wrong to feel that way, not at all.

I don't disagree, but it comes down to execution rather than any inherent issue with the change, in my opinion. If it is executed badly, it comes off as inorganic and forced and does more harm than good probably. But that doesn't invalidate the reasoning behind it necessarily.
More diverse creative staff is also vital, it's horrifying that Marvel only just employed it's first black woman writer (I'm not sure if meant on an ongoing or ever) in the past few months. And again Bendis is being criticized for writing Riri Williams. For these stories to feel organic and natural they need to reflect the peopl they are supposed to represent, and the best way to do that is to have the people they represent write them or at least heavily involved in the production process.

I'll leave it there, this discussion has been nice and civil so best to end it.

[TheBlueMarvel]

@lordbest
Civil discourse isn't as hard as people think. Truth be told, I agree with most of the things you post. I find your take on things to be sensible/reasoned...but that might be because I'm also a Steven Universe fan LOL best 'toon to come along in a very long time.

[Struggler]

Exodus, I was actually going to suggest that entire Ghost rider run. It's probably the only time I really liked the character. Even though I grew up on Ketch, I also like Johnny Blaze. I was going to share my opinion on the current state of marvel, but I guess somewhere located within my diatribe, are words that are considered too spammy. So, I will refrain from sharing my view for now.

[Captain Nash]

based on some posts I went by TRU today (took the day off to run some errands and do some cleaning for guests this weekend). Was hoping to run into the Dr. Strange wave. No such luck of course. Looks like October through Amazon it is.

[Byrnes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordbest

That's anecdotal evidence. My local store was opened by a married couple, is now run by one of their women staff who bought them out and I see lots of women and girls in their whenever I visit. That's anecdotal evidence too. The industry has been saying consistently that women are the fastest growing demographic, and they are the ones in the position to know, or to have paid for research to find out.

Your complaints about the writing are perfectly valid, of course. They don't have anything to do with political correctness though.

I said nothing of men or women just 30 to 50 year olds so i'm not sure why you keep trying to put that in there. Either way I choose not buy comics anymore for my own reasons. If they want to go another route I'm fine with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Blunder

...sometimes, I forget that comics talk in here brings out sides of people that are not the most fun to see.

Gonna try to bring it back to figures then.

It's a forum for talking. I don't get upset or pissy about this stuff. I can simply scroll past stuff if I don't like the content. Sometimes it healthy to have discussions like this, sometimes it's not. I can only read so many posts about a "buck" on a figure though, lol. Have a great weekend fellas.

[Augustus_Cole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Blunder

...sometimes, I forget that comics talk in here brings out sides of people that are not the most fun to see.

Gonna try to bring it back to figures then.

i did mention that there is a comics thread...
and given comics are where our beloved figures were spawned from....
and given we all go now and again..
BUT the long drawn out talk of what's is and did go on in comics..
i think i mentioned there is a comics thread... IJS

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

...damn MCU figs, they're starting to grow on me.

I don't even have these yet but I'm really liking this wave..
Those Stranges look good...that effect looks good as well..

[Dr Kain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Struggler

Since you are reading 90's stuff, if you are interested in a supernatural crossover, you may want to look into Rise of the midnight sons. It's a team-up with both ghost riders(johnny blaze and danny ketch), blade & the nightstalkers and some other characters including dr strange.

Well a couple things with that:

1. Right now I'm only interested in reading X-Men.
2. I own the Midnight Sons 6 parter. That was my very first crossover experience. In fact, I bought Morbius #1 not knowing it was part of it, so I had to hunt down the Ghost Rider and Spirits of Vengeance comics that came before it. I still have all of the issues with their polybag and poster pieces.
3. I'm mostly sticking to 70s and 80s stuff right now that isn't X-Men.
4. Thanks for the recommendation nonetheless.

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

@lordbest
Civil discourse isn't as hard as people think. Truth be told, I agree with most of the things you post. I find your take on things to be sensible/reasoned...but that might be because I'm also a Steven Universe fan LOL best 'toon to come along in a very long time.

Ducktales is returning next year.

[TheBlueMarvel]

^LOL

Steven Universe > Ducktales....

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueMarvel

^LOL

Steven Universe > Ducktales....

BLAAAASSSPHEMY! Heehee

[En Sabah Nerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Kain

Right now I'm only interested in reading X-Men.

Have you read God Loves, Man Kills? You might not have since it was released as an OGN so it might not be put into any of the omnibuses or collections but it's a really good solo story from Claremont which serves as a lot of the inspiration for X2.

[Harbinger]

I wish theyd do a trade of the issues chronicling bishops first appearance to the death of his friends. Thats probably my fave sets of issues of post outback xmen.

[Exodus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by En Sabah Nerd

Have you read God Loves, Man Kills? You might not have since it was released as an OGN so it might not be put into any of the omnibuses or collections but it's a really good solo story from Claremont which serves as a lot of the inspiration for X2.

That's a great story too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Struggler

Exodus, I was actually going to suggest that entire Ghost rider run. It's probably the only time I really liked the character. Even though I grew up on Ketch, I also like Johnny Blaze. I was going to share my opinion on the current state of marvel, but I guess somewhere located within my diatribe, are words that are considered too spammy. So, I will refrain from sharing my view for now.

Ketch and Blaze are def good representation of GR. Haha no worries, I went ahead and created a new thread here to talk about all things Marvel Comics.

http://www.toyark.com/marvel-comics-...78/#post680831

[Captain Nash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitelife

I wish theyd do a trade of the issues chronicling bishops first appearance to the death of his friends. Thats probably my fave sets of issues of post outback xmen.

There is Bishop's Crossing. of course it contains a lot more than jut those issues but they are all in there.

[Harbinger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Nash

There is Bishop's Crossing. of course it contains a lot more than jut those issues but they are all in there.

FAITH N B'GORA OH HAPPY DAY. Now just to find it haha.

[donmeca2020]

So im still on the hunt for DP and wolvy, apparently the X wave is now making it across stores in south florida. however those two are still hard to find. also rogue.

Nitelife - don't worry i've still been searching for you....

[Boy Blunder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donmeca2020

So im still on the hunt for DP and wolvy, apparently the X wave is now making it across stores in south florida. however those two are still hard to find. also rogue.

Nitelife - don't worry i've still been searching for you....

Rogue seems to be a little easier to find now than when the wave first hit, so hopefully you won't have to search much longer, at least for her.

Wolvie and DP, still the hot items of the wave, though.

[Trivial Psychic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Blunder

Rogue seems to be a little easier to find now than when the wave first hit, so hopefully you won't have to search much longer, at least for her.

Wolvie and DP, still the hot items of the wave, though.

Yeah, I have literally run into Rogue 4 out of the last 5 or 6 trips I have been out. Wolverine, only once since the wave dropped, and Deadpool a whopping zero. Thank goodness I just ended up picking up the entire wave when I did.

Truth be told, the Space Venom wave has been even tougher, all I have seen thus far was a lone Ashley Barton (of course...who else would it be) and that's about it. Finding another Silk for custom fodder is going to be next to impossible I'm fearing.