[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

tony is a natural born narcissist and wouldve ended up being a arrogant dictator or something if he stayed as head of shield.

But his time running SHIELD was incredibly productive and effective- both in his book (which kicks amazing ass in the haunted run) and elsewhere as crime dropped by 80%- the villians were too afraid to do their bullshit- when anyone tried, the Avengers popped up and stomped their ass!

That extra coordination made a huge difference.

Plus taking down Doom right away for the symbiote attack on New York. There was need to run to the UN or state department or anything- they just hopped in the Quinjet and invaded his fucking country- he was a terrorist and they took him apart (even though it may have been Krstoff that set Doom up that time, it was still Doom's satelite eapon filled with grown symbiotes).

The instant response time to a situation, plus having teams anywhere in the US as first responders was a brilliant idea that I wish they'd kept.

[CLASSIFIED]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogFashionDisco

Anti-registration, all the way.

So what you are saying is that masked gun men should be allowed to roam the streets and break up what they deem as crime in the real world.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

tony is a natural born narcissist and wouldve ended up being a arrogant dictator or something if he stayed as head of shield.

Umm...no. with the exception of natural born narcissist, which he is, the dictator comment is a baseless statement. Read civil war front line. Even pro-reg he still had the the American people and the heroes in his best interest. Read civil war what if.

Its cool if you just don't like stark, but that doesn't make him a sure shot dictator. Arrogant leader definitely. There is just too negative and evil a connotation associated with "dictator". IMO at least.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Abbadon

But his time running SHIELD was incredibly productive and effective- both in his book (which kicks amazing ass in the haunted run) and elsewhere as crime dropped by 80%- the villians were too afraid to do their bullshit- when anyone tried, the Avengers popped up and stomped their ass!

That extra coordination made a huge difference.

Plus taking down Doom right away for the symbiote attack on New York. There was need to run to the UN or state department or anything- they just hopped in the Quinjet and invaded his fucking country- he was a terrorist and they took him apart (even though it may have been Krstoff that set Doom up that time, it was still Doom's satelite eapon filled with grown symbiotes).

The instant response time to a situation, plus having teams anywhere in the US as first responders was a brilliant idea that I wish they'd kept.

You speak much truth and you've already made many of the points in this thread I would've argued had I seen this thread early enough.

Mutants are registered. As Emma pointed out to Tony. Why not meta-humans/crime-fighters? Are they somehow above the law?

[CLASSIFIED]

If we are going to require that people register things like firearms, and automobiles and the like, then it seems a no-brainer that we would also require people to register their super powers.

That said, the question becomes why?

Maybe people shouldn't be required to register anything if the intent of registering said thing is to limmit the possibility of commiting a crime with said thing.

If that is the case, then having the crime be a crime seems enough legislation to me.

[bmorr]

you have to remember that peoples live are at stake if their identities are revealed to the public. I know that dictator might be a little harsh of a word but I didnt like where it was headed with the armored stormtroopers hunting heroes down in a fascistic nazi parallel.

[Tiberius]

Why do you think it came down to hunting down heroes though? Remember, Tony delayed this for as long as possible, and the New Warriors put things into motion. I feel the things they did to heroes for not registering was wrong and that made it hard for me to root for Pro-Reg. However, to me anyways, the pros of Pro-Reg out weighed the cons.

[Jason Abbadon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

you have to remember that peoples live are at stake if their identities are revealed to the public. I know that dictator might be a little harsh of a word but I didnt like where it was headed with the armored stormtroopers hunting heroes down in a fascistic nazi parallel.

That's the crux of Cap's argument- and it has it's merits, but remember that they were regulating people that were already breaking many laws with their vigilantie activity- and training them, along with backup would prevent such things like that super-powered teen hero that got his head blown off in the recent Fear Itself X-Force.
No one even knew that kid was misssing untill the Purifiers killed him on TV!

He was just some guy that got powers and put on a costume o be like his own heroes- no training or support- and no backup if things went badly.
And bad guys took him hostage, blowing his brains out.

So yeah, I can still see the anti-reg POV- particularly when parts of the government have constantly tried to wipe out mutants and had pans to deal with superhumans in general eventually.
Not that Cap ever helped the X-Men with their Sentinel attacks or anything, right Steve-O?


In a nutshell, they should have kept parts of what Tony established, but doing away with the database was a good idea, considering the government abuses the MU often seems to have.


As to the "Hunting heroes" thing, Tony had several chances to nail the New Avengers and let them slide...which was easy to do since they generally just fought the Hood's gang and sulked.
And fought ninjas- lots of lots of ninjas. So many ninjas that Spidey and Clint were cracking wise about it.
Whole lotta ninjas.

[Tiberius]

Honestly, going to read Civil War for the 4th time. I got the time haha.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorr

you have to remember that peoples live are at stake if their identities are revealed to the public. I know that dictator might be a little harsh of a word but I didnt like where it was headed with the armored stormtroopers hunting heroes down in a fascistic nazi parallel.

Sometimes lunatics blow buildings up and kill innocent people because they're lunatics. You think a name makes a difference? You hide in the bushes and think about it. I'll be in the mansion with the beautiful people. -Tony Stark to Spiderman.

Everyone knows stark is iron man. He cares about pepper and had but loads of staff lives to consider on top of loved ones. So the lives are at stake argument is weak to me.

[Tiberius]

If people arguing that haven't read Civil War #1 should really read it. That comic alone will tell you if you still support Pro Reg, or still support Anti Reg with some vital information to back up your debates.

[DogFashionDisco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLASSIFIED

So what you are saying is that masked gun men should be allowed to roam the streets and break up what they deem as crime in the real world.

Masked gun men? That is an interesting interpretation. Here in Missouri you are legally allowed to carry and conceal a fire arm once you apply to do so. I think I'd be more worried that some random redneck with a hidden gun and more bullets than brain cells would shoot me than a person wearing a mask, considering the masked person at least tired to hide his identity. The most dangerous people are the ones who feel that their actions are justified and choose to do questionable things out in the open because they have no fear of being caught, whereas a masked gunman is likely to want something, and once they get it they'll flee and the less attention they draw to themselves the better. Plus, if we're talking strictly super heroes here, than the likeliness that they're using guns would be pretty slim.

[Tiberius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogFashionDisco

Masked gun men? That is an interesting interpretation. Here in Missouri you are legally allowed to carry and conceal a fire arm once you apply to do so. I think I'd be more worried that some random redneck with a hidden gun and more bullets than brain cells would shoot me than a person wearing a mask, considering the masked person at least tired to hide his identity. The most dangerous people are the ones who feel that their actions are justified and choose to do questionable things out in the open because they have no fear of being caught, whereas a masked gunman is likely to want something, and once they get it they'll flee and the less attention they draw to themselves the better. Plus, if we're talking strictly super heroes here, than the likeliness that they're using guns would be pretty slim.

Isn't that what going Pro Reg will stop? Being accountable for your actions? That no one, even heroes are above the law?

[DogFashionDisco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Isn't that what going Pro Reg will stop? Being accountable for your actions? That no one, even heroes are above the law?

I think that the good guys and bad guys (at least in comics) balance each other out, showing that no one is above the law by questioning each others intentions. What I was trying to say though is that if either the superheroes or supervillains were registered and told that they were now free to use their powers for good than they may abuse that power even more. Just look at Iron Patriot, the guy is a sociopath, maniac, and proven supervillian yet the government thought that by sanctioning his actions that he would be a productive part of their operations. Just because someone appears to be working for the right reasons doesn't mean that they are actually doing any good at all.

[Jason Abbadon]

Exactly.
While the odds are that asked people wont have guns, they can do stuff like destroy entire towns (as Count Nefaria did while fighting the Avengers)- or kill school bus full of kids (as the Wrecking Crew did) or rape a woman knowing that the cops and their guns are no threat (as Absorbing Man did) or destroy much of Las Vegas as the Hulk did and years later Gravity and Hardball did in Fear Irself..
The general populace has no way of knowing masked heroes from masked villians- they cant keep score of the hundreds of costumed people out there. Even the "heroes" are unrstrained and destroy everything- people's entire lives, jobs and homes gone becaise Gravity was pissed at Hardball for insulting him.

That's life without the SHRA under Steve Rogers.

Hell, it's amazing that the poulace of the MU does not just shoot any costumed people on sight from rooftops!

[Tiberius]

Also, with Regulation, wouldn't that cut down on future villains? I mean, if the Marvel US Government went all out, babies would be tested at birth for "Super Cells" for lack of better words. Sure people like Hawkeye, Bullseye, Punisher, ect are just highly skilled and those skills are developed over time. So in that case, Super Cells are non existent. And with people who use tech for their powers would easily be hired for SHIELD's weapon department.

[DogFashionDisco]

I'm on the side that can stop this:

[Tiberius]

These guys can..

[Greenskar]

I love you guys. If that makes me gay...so be it.

[Tiberius]

I'm confused.

[Greenskar]

The responses are awesome. Make sense?

...and I'm buzzing. Shhhhhh.

[Tiberius]

I GET IT NOW =D. Comic book time =D.

[redx24]

up till the 90's i would have said no. it seems before that heroes and villians all had a code of conduct that was rarely crossed. hell even the punisher used to turn himselff over to the authoritys if he harmed one he considered innocent. yea he'd brake out for whatever reason but he at least had some sense of right and wrong. ever since about 92 hero ethics have gone completly out the window and its been accepted that they were doing the right thing but then u got the stamford inccident which was a huge incident. after that how can any government just let a human weapon walk around unchecked? the only logical thing would be registration training and accountability. imho cap would have been on the side of registering. it just seems so out of charecter for him to think other wise. yes he's a sybol for freedom but i highly doubt anyone in their right minds can think freedom should overide the safty of others especially when ur talking bout people that can wipe out whole city blocks in minutes.

[deadpool]

I'm going with the punisher after looking at this thread.

[Greenskar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadpool

I'm going with the punisher after looking at this thread.

Why are you with punisher?